TV over the last 40 years and morality

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Honestly, Ed-I admire your passion on this issue but I don’t see the need here. I’ve been here long enough to know that the posters here have sufficient intelligence and most have enough grounding in the Catholic faith to be able to determine what is objectionable. People here are fully capable of finding the remote and changing the channel or turning the thing off altogether.
With all due respect - you don’t know that. As a moderator on another forum, I know for a fact that we have a number of lurkers. How do I know this? Because some lurkers eventually post, usually with “I’ve been a lurker here for a long time” or “I’ve been a lurker here for a very long time and this is my first post.”

And I know there are lurkers and posters here that are outside the faith, considering the faith and Catholics who are honestly confused about Church teaching and about what is or is not sinful. Just look at the other posts on this particular sub-forum.

Peace,
Ed
 
In some ways the media has gotten better. A few weeks ago I watched a documentary that was released in 1956 ( but most of the footage was filmed in 1931) and I couldn’t go 3 minutes without something horrifyingly racist coming up.

I have a hard time believing that Two and a Half Men is worse propaganda than “I doubt the islanders even have the same nervous system that we do.”
 
With all due respect - you don’t know that. As a moderator on another forum, I know for a fact that we have a number of lurkers. How do I know this? Because some lurkers eventually post, usually with “I’ve been a lurker here for a long time” or “I’ve been a lurker here for a very long time and this is my first post.”

And I know there are lurkers and posters here that are outside the faith, considering the faith and Catholics who are honestly confused about Church teaching and about what is or is not sinful. Just look at the other posts on this particular sub-forum.

Peace,
Ed
People that aren’t agreeing with you on this topic are not “honestly confused” about Church teaching and what is or is not sinful. They just don’t agree with your point of view. People can be fully aware of what the Church teaches and come to a much different conclusion than you have about this subject. Don’t be so insulting to presume otherwise.
 
I have a question for those who are against any sort of censorship/reform:

I understand where they are coming from, as I feel that as an adult I can also watch a show with filthy content and still choose to act in a moral way once I turn off the television. However, can we all agree that children (and this includes adolescents and many “adults” in their early twenties) in general do not have such strong constitutions and the ability to discern right from wrong? That even though as adults we may remain unaffected by propaganda, but that children are less likely to judge the content of what they’re watching? The danger is not so much that “I can turn off the TV any time I want” - this is indisputable - but that there are hordes of young people whose parents do not do this. And even if the parents *did *make all attempts to regulate what is being exposed to their children, kids can very easily circumvent this parental control, either by sneaking downstairs late at night to watch adult programming (which I did), or by going to the homes of friends whose parents are not quite as vigilent (which I did). Case in point - think of how many posters we’ve seen on this very board who admit to watching pornography on a regular basis, many of whom are teenagers. Should we assume that their parents allowed them to watch pornography (with their blessing, even?), or is it more accurate to assume that *despite *their parents’ monitoring, they got access to it anyway?

The point is, it is far too simplistic to simply say “Turn off the TV.” My example of watching a UFC tournament on G4 (which I chose to watch, knowing full-well what it would entail), and then having to watch a commercial for phone sex/anonymous hook-ups (which I did not choose to see) illustrates the fact that immorality is shoved down my throat whether I seek it out or not. Is the answer to accept all or nothing? I can’t watch any TV at all, unless I’m willing to be bombarded with profanity, positive remarks about strip clubs, snide jokes about Chrisitans, etc?:confused: I realize you may not have meant this literally Seeker1961, so I don’t mean this as an attack. But do you realize that in essence the suggestion to just “turn off the TV” means we have to either sacrifice the enjoyment of every good, wholesome, informative show or simply accept anything and everything that comes through the cable wires? If we can restrict soft-core porn to a paid subscription to Playboy, why can’t we impose other restrictions on cable programming?

I’m not trying to make this an argument of “You’re either with me or against me”, but genuinely trying to see if there is a way we can allow a certain amount of freedom, but still maintain a standard of decency in what we are exposed to.
 
I would say our definitions of “shoved down our throats” differs then. Watching or observing something that I disagree with is no great pain, it does not put a burden on my shoulders, it does not weaken me to the point where I must go rest and find solace in meditation or anything of that nature. If I see something that is stupid, illogical, immoral, whatever, I make that decision in my mind and that is it, they can show it all they want, but it is not going to change my mind. If its visually disturbing? I look away, I play on my phone, play with my dog, most of the time I’m practicing my horn during commercials and don’t see or here them anyway.

Shoving something down my throat would mean, to me, that they are calling my house from that Sex Line number, or making me fill out a form to the Sex Line people to watch the UFC, checking a box to install software saying “I agree with the Sex Line Company” etc etc…actually forcing me to in someway participate in something I don’t agree with. The company wins nothing by you watching their commercial. They win by having someone watching the commercial AND LATER calling or patroning the company because of the commercial. Personally I accept all information given to me. Why? You never know when the discussion comes up or argument about anything. Your opinion is much stronger when you have Corporation names, anecdotes of commercial tactics, etc. etc. when the time comes.

Now you could say “well by watching the commercial you’re giving them money”. While this may be true to a certain extent, if the commercial is playing, then they already got the money, whether I leave the TV on or not is no consequence to the commercial playing, once they meet a certain viewership or certain percentage of target audience on a station, they will play certain commercials, and there’s nothing really you can do about it (because we all know that Ratings and teh Survey system are all a joke).

You really could say the same about any commercial. I know my father would turn off any commercial for a Non-American car manufacturer in a heartbeat. Are they shoving it down our throats? I don’t think so, we are voluntarily watching it. Would they be if they said “Everyone who watches this UFC Fight is a patron of Sex Line Company A”? I would tend to say yes in that situation. But most events that actually want viewers are very careful about the sponsors they select for that very reason. You are more likely to watch the Coca Cola 400 than the Trojan Condom 400.
 
I would say our definitions of “shoved down our throats” differs then. Watching or observing something that I disagree with is no great pain, it does not put a burden on my shoulders, it does not weaken me to the point where I must go rest and find solace in meditation or anything of that nature. If I see something that is stupid, illogical, immoral, whatever, I make that decision in my mind and that is it, they can show it all they want, but it is not going to change my mind. If its visually disturbing? I look away, I play on my phone, play with my dog, most of the time I’m practicing my horn during commercials and don’t see or here them anyway.
Fair enough to all your points, misterelm, as they pertain to the cognitive capabilities of adults. I don’t curl into a whimpering ball when I hear a bad word…but I know that my life will not become a festering pit of despair when I *don’t *hear one either. In other words, vulgarity does not enrich me in any way, despite the fact that I can deal with it emotionally. But aside from that, do you have any concerns about the rest of my statement concerning what is presented to our youth, or do you trust in *their *abilities to cast judgment on what they see? Remember, these indoctrinatees are the ones that will be taking care of us in a few decades, so there is a certain responsibility toward them. I specifically mentioned that my greater concern is for our youth, despite the fact that I also have been able to enjoy R-rated movies without being scarred for life.

Also, despite the ability to change the channel, once your eyes process what is on the screen and send this permanent image to your brain, that image stays in your head regardless of whether or not you hit a button on the remote control afterward. The remote control is not a magic brain-eraser.

There is also the issue of desensitation that occurs. I remember the first lesbian kiss I saw was in the movie “Cruel Intentions”. (Obviously before that I knew what a lesbian was, and I could figure out on my own what they do in intimate situations.) But that was the first time I saw in right in front of my face. I have to say, I was fairly repulsed despite having homosexual acquaintances in my life who kept their intimacy private (sorry for the harsh description, but revulsion was my natural, honest, instinctive reaction). To get to the point, I have since seen so many of these scenes (without seeking them out) in media that it no longer shocks me, even though I look away in discomfort. There is something to be said that it no longer “shocks” me. I’m sure the pro-homosexual crowd is happy over this, in fact they probably view this as me becoming more “tolerant” and enlightened. Maybe in the future pederasty won’t bother me as much either if I watch enough reruns of Lolita. But what about other issues, such as violence? Is it OK to become desensitized to it to the point that we remain unshocked at vicious behavior? Or is it too much to ask that we maintain a certain innocence so that we can rightly be outraged when these incidents occur in real life?

And tying the homosexual issue with your suggestion of simply tuning things out that bother us…I suppose we could always tell parents who object to gay and contraceptive propaganda in schools to either ignore it, or homeschool instead. Simple enough, right? No one *forces *them to put their children in public school, so I guess they shouldn’t complain.
 
With all due respect - you don’t know that. As a moderator on another forum, I know for a fact that we have a number of lurkers. How do I know this? Because some lurkers eventually post, usually with “I’ve been a lurker here for a long time” or “I’ve been a lurker here for a very long time and this is my first post.”

And I know there are lurkers and posters here that are outside the faith, considering the faith and Catholics who are honestly confused about Church teaching and about what is or is not sinful. Just look at the other posts on this particular sub-forum.

Peace,
Ed
Arguing for responsibility and self-censorship isn’t against church teaching. I’m not “honestly confused” about what is immoral according to Church teaching, and I doubt anyone reading here is either. If someone is interested enough in Catholicism to lurk here, they already have some idea of what the Church stands for, especially in regard to morality because those topics get the most play in the secular press.
 
Fair enough to all your points, misterelm, as they pertain to the cognitive capabilities of adults. I don’t curl into a whimpering ball when I hear a bad word…but I know that my life will not become a festering pit of despair when I *don’t *hear one either. In other words, vulgarity does not enrich me in any way, despite the fact that I can deal with it emotionally. But aside from that, do you have any concerns about the rest of my statement concerning what is presented to our youth, or do you trust in *their *abilities to cast judgment on what they see? Remember, these indoctrinatees are the ones that will be taking care of us in a few decades, so there is a certain responsibility toward them. I specifically mentioned that my greater concern is for our youth, despite the fact that I also have been able to enjoy R-rated movies without being scarred for life.

Also, despite the ability to change the channel, once your eyes process what is on the screen and send this permanent image to your brain, that image stays in your head regardless of whether or not you hit a button on the remote control afterward. The remote control is not a magic brain-eraser.

There is also the issue of desensitation that occurs. I remember the first lesbian kiss I saw was in the movie “Cruel Intentions”. (Obviously before that I knew what a lesbian was, and I could figure out on my own what they do in intimate situations.) But that was the first time I saw in right in front of my face. I have to say, I was fairly repulsed despite having homosexual acquaintances in my life who kept their intimacy private (sorry for the harsh description, but revulsion was my natural, honest, instinctive reaction). To get to the point, I have since seen so many of these scenes (without seeking them out) in media that it no longer shocks me, even though I look away in discomfort. There is something to be said that it no longer “shocks” me. I’m sure the pro-homosexual crowd is happy over this, in fact they probably view this as me becoming more “tolerant” and enlightened. Maybe in the future pederasty won’t bother me as much either if I watch enough reruns of Lolita. But what about other issues, such as violence? Is it OK to become desensitized to it to the point that we remain unshocked at vicious behavior? Or is it too much to ask that we maintain a certain innocence so that we can rightly be outraged when these incidents occur in real life?

And tying the homosexual issue with your suggestion of simply tuning things out that bother us…I suppose we could always tell parents who object to gay and contraceptive propaganda in schools to either ignore it, or homeschool instead. Simple enough, right? No one *forces *them to put their children in public school, so I guess they shouldn’t complain.
Wow…I was in the life for a long time and I was never exposed to lesbian kisses in the media. Never saw the movie you referred to, and I’ve never seen any others either. I know there is a channel called Logo that has such shows, but i don’t watch it. 🤷

And yes, if parents want their children educated according to Church teaching then it is their responsibility to make that happen.
 
You bring up interesting points, and the question becomes who should the media cater to? Should they cater to children or the adults? Adults pay the bills but the children seem to be the ones most effected. Who weighs more in the population distribution of the US?

I have always been of the opinion that the focus needs to be on parent education, not on censorship of the media or anything else. Mothers are coming younger and younger it seems, so young that they do not have yet their own fully developed sense of right and wrong, of morality, religious or otherwise. This is something that is so obtainable. I talk to students, some of whom are mothers every week, I get their opinions on things, I (as a music teacher) study the lyrics of popular music with them to find their true meanings. I have had kids literally come up and tell me that they never questioned that something was wrong until I brought it up. This is real, easy to do, and provides demonstrated improvement. Compare this with taking down the entire media industry, which is essentially represented by every American at some point in the process, hardly a feat that can be accomplished. Why one, and not the other? I’ll tackle your imagery and desensitization in a later paragraph.

On one hand I can say yes, if you are significantly worried about the content of public schooling you could homeschool your child or send them to private school. On the other hand I am a public high school teacher and there is absolutely 0% contraceptive or gay propaganda here in my opinion, so that may depend on a case by case basis.

As far as desensitization goes, I do agree that it happens, but I do not think that it is really that relevant. It goes with the right and wrong argument. So there is a bad or immoral image somewhere in your head, there are also thousands of times more good images, images of your family, would you rather have seen something, been able to make the decision on your own will that you do not like it, and then keep that decision with you, or not see it at all, and never know for yourself. Frankly if someone tells me “you don’t want to see this, it’s immoral” that makes me want to see it even more, why should someone else get to decide what is immoral or crude or vulgar for me. This might be an unfair statement, and I might be a little embattled because if you’ve read my earlier posts you will see that I had a very limited childhood as far as…anything goes. And as quetsionable or as bad at it has gotten it did give me a very strict idea of what was right and what was wrong. To the violent effect, I’m fairly sure without doing any research that anyone who watches a violent program and then goes on a shooting spree has a lot more going on upstairs and at home than simple video indoctrination. Second I think that it is very healthy and important that we, especially younger adults, and possibly even older children, are introduced to the horrors of war and violence. War is something we are constantly surrounded by, and pervades our history, we cannot simply ignore that it or wholesale violence exists in the real world. So we keep seeing images of Homosexuals, do we not keep acknowledging that we think its wrong, scoff in disgust, etc. every time it comes up?

The first thing I did after high school was join the military, and and I celebrated my 20th in Afghanistan. I’m 22 now and I have both shot at people and been shot at. I’ve seen horrible things done to dead bodies, I’ve seen horrible things done to live bodies. That being said there is absolutely nothing, the most grotesque, illicit movie or film you will find by today’s media, will do nothing to prepare you for that kind of imagery, the smell, the heat. That is true desensitization, nothing I see now even phases me, even depictions of horrible criminals, torturists, etc. While I agree that my introduction to violent material such as movies and video games plays a part in my reaction to those events, it in no way “desensitized” me to them in a harmful manner. Nothing can keep you from hesitating the first time you point a weapon at someone with the intent to do harm or to defend yourself. As soon as the stock hits your shoulder you pray and pray and pray that you don’t have to pull the trigger. To this day I have never ever engaged in violence without reluctance (for that matter neither has anyone in my unit, or anyone I’ve talked to about it after the fact), and I’ve watched just as many violent TV shows and movies as the next person.

I think we are descending now into child psychology, whats right for children, what they see. and hear. And you are absolutely right, no parental control is foolproof, we cannot protect children from seeing and hearing evil in the world. We also cannot protect them completely from physical evil either. You might step into the other room and they might cut themself, you might send them off to school and the bus driver might get in an accident. So my opinion stays thus; there are way more evils in this world that are more readily and easily combatted than the “main stream media”. There’s plenty of christian programming, good childrens programming. As an adult, it comes down to your sense of right and wrong, as a child, it comes down to your parents. As far as the topic of the discussion, I can prove, and so can others, that 41 years ago, 60 years ago, 150 years ago, people were just as messed up, people still had these same problems in permutation, these same arguments about immorality, about children, about what’s right and wrong, about what should be printed, what shouldn’t be printed.

Why do I discuss this so hard? Usually when someone discusses modern media etc, it usually devolves into blaming the current generation for this, that and the other the blame goes to the media, to artists our age etc. This is a repeating pattern that has and will continue to repeat itself, the only fault the media, the present generation, etc. has is being different than the previous ones that are still around. What have most of the complaints been? “There used to be two beds in a married couples room!” “We used to have Leave it to Beaver!” There are just as many merits and demerits about the media then as there is now. People find great ways to minister using current media tools. Youtube allows you to pull up whatever you want or need whenever you need it, and accompanying devices make it easier. So much focus is on the bad things, on violence, etc. but these things are a constant, people have been being shot for thousands of years!

I wish I had more anecdotes, or a more eloquent way of explaining whats in my mind.
 
Thanks for the reply, misterelm. I would like to reply to you, especially since you brought up your military involvement (and thatnk you for your service), but I have chicken wings getting ready to come out of the oven.

Will reply when time permits.🙂
 
Just one more point:

zenit.org/article-22552?l=english

Peace,
Ed
Is not the excesses of alcohol or ice cream just as detrimental to young children? Is the AAP’s recommendation based on Media content or based on medicine? Ie. the development of the child’s brain when exposed to the light of the TV constantly, the sounds, and as the article says, the fast paced imagery?

I don’t think you will find anyone to argue that parents shouldn’t regulate, explain, and participate in what their children watch.

Let me ask you something, if you were going to tell me a story about how a homosexual drunk driver got into an accident in front of your eye, would you be able to do it in complete purity and with lack of bias? That is no scoffing, no implementation of personal beliefs, no disdainful inflection of voice. Completely flat, even monotone…

Would you be able to do that with every single story you tell? And if you did so, would I listen? Probably not. Someone gets on Television and tells us a story, who are we to say they cannot tell it how they want to, as long as the facts of the story are there? This is exactly the reason why there is not one overarching, monopolized news organization, as W.R. Hearst would have wanted. Every news organization, including Christian ones, are absolutely guilty of spinning bias to get a reaction at one point or another.

50% is a very large, very convenient number to say of all “secular” employees of media companies. In fact, since well over 80% of media is by “secular” organizations, I would say that number encompasses hundreds of thousands of employees. I’d like to know what research could have possibly been done to show that coast to coast, of all employees in the Media industry, FIFTY PERCENT are agnostic or atheist. To boot these same surveyed individuals also commented on Abortion. Right after that she says to “check all research”. I get it… this is a test right? In my area I know a great deal of news broadcasters and employees attend church. Adherents on the other hand gives a very detailed account of how they gather their data, and says of the entire world that they measure, only 16% are non-religious of the entire world within the scope of their measurement… 16%…

She is saying nothing everyone should already know;

-Watch TV with your kids, or monitor what they are doing on the internet
-Read current catholic literature and Bishop statements on what to do in life

How is this different, eye opening, or groundbreaking?
 
Looking back at TV programming as it has evolved from its beginning, I can recall my parents watching Fulton Sheen, I Love Lucy, Leave it to Beaver, Milton Berle, My Show of Shows with Sid Caesar and Carl Reiner, and similar shows. Of course, early in the morning you could only get a test pattern, and at night the stations (all 3 of them) went off the air by midnight.

Now, if I imagine that one day, the programs normally shown in those days were suddenly replaced the next day by today’s programming, censorship would not have been an issue. My mother would simply have thrown the TV out of the house without further ado.

But of course, the changes were made gradually. So desensitization was certainly at work.
 
Looking back at TV programming as it has evolved from its beginning, I can recall my parents watching Fulton Sheen, I Love Lucy, Leave it to Beaver, Milton Berle, My Show of Shows with Sid Caesar and Carl Reiner, and similar shows. Of course, early in the morning you could only get a test pattern, and at night the stations (all 3 of them) went off the air by midnight.

Now, if I imagine that one day, the programs normally shown in those days were suddenly replaced the next day by today’s programming, censorship would not have been an issue. My mother would simply have thrown the TV out of the house without further ado.

But of course, the changes were made gradually. So desensitization was certainly at work.
Indeed. And that’s really the only way it *could *work - little by little. When you have a population with a strong faith (as was back in the day) and high standards, the very worst that could happen was a slight deviation from that standard. The bar had to be lowered little by little, getting people accustomed to accept more and more. I’m going to take a moment to think of a scenario that would offend almost everyone’s sensibilities - I mean, something to which everyone would say “That will never happen!”. It will be interesting to see if I can watch a program about it on TV 15 years from now.
 
You bring up interesting points, and the question becomes who should the media cater to? Should they cater to children or the adults? Adults pay the bills but the children seem to be the ones most effected. Who weighs more in the population distribution of the US?
I think the media should cater to both – after all, networks want to make a profit and there is nothing wrong with this in itself. But as is the case with any company that seeks to make a profit, we as citizens expect that those businesses will make a profit taking ethics and goodwill into consideration. We expect this because we acknowledge that we are codependent with others who live in our society and therefore share a certain responsibility toward one another (or at least I would hope so). For the same reason that I find it more ethical for a used car dealer to make a sale using his knowledge of the vehicle and persuasive speaking ability instead of sleazy charm, I think any TV producer/actor/writer with a conscience would find that there is more nobility to be found in his art when he seeks to elevate it for the good of others by praising positive behavior and condemning immorality.

You and I may have different ideas on what is moral or immoral (I really don’t know what your stance is since you don’t provide religious/spiritual information on your profile), but I would hope that we could at least agree that shows like Teenage Mom, the misogynistic lyrics in rap, the gratuitous violence of Jerry Springer, and advertisements for Girls Gone Wild do nothing to encourage our notions of what it means to live in a civilized society which not only thrives, but is actually *dependent * upon manners and self-restraint. If we don’t keep positive reinforcement alive in every aspect of our society (this includes media), would it be safe to say that our society will spiral downhill? I think this is already happening in many ways.
I have always been of the opinion that the focus needs to be on parent education, not on censorship of the media or anything else.
No argument from me here. The focus definitely has to come from the parent – but is it too much to ask that our media support this goal instead of fighting against it? A healthy society feeds on itself, and that means in my opinion that families (the very backbone of society which allows it to live or die) should not have to encounter opposition at every turn. (I’m reaching a bit farther than simply TV here, and including all media outlets: television, movie theaters, radio, internet, billboards, magazines, etc). It is virtually impossible to isolate ourselves from this, and that is how it is shoved down our throats. It really doesn’t have to be as drastic as someone forcing me at gunpoint to watch a program - I can see it on the billboards of I-95.
Mothers are coming younger and younger it seems, so young that they do not have yet their own fully developed sense of right and wrong, of morality, religious or otherwise.
I would add a distinction to this: UNWED mothers and FATHERS are coming younger and younger. It seems those with more education, stability (and perhaps more responsibility?) are having children in their late twenties/late thirties. Why do you think this is? I personally think there are several reasons, but I think media (and its condonement of it) plays a BIG role in this.
Compare this with taking down the entire media industry, which is essentially represented by every American at some point in the process, hardly a feat that can be accomplished.
Not that impossible. MPAA actually had to follow very rigid guidelines in the past. We’ve allowed them to push the boundaries by simply accepting them.
On one hand I can say yes, if you are significantly worried about the content of public schooling you could homeschool your child or send them to private school. On the other hand I am a public high school teacher and there is absolutely 0% contraceptive or gay propaganda here in my opinion, so that may depend on a case by case basis.
You might be lucky. But brace yourself – I suspect it will be coming soon to a town near you. blackpoliticsontheweb.com/2008/08/20/largest-african-american-pro-life-organization-outraged-over-new-planned-parenthood-website/
As far as desensitization goes, I do agree that it happens, but I do not think that it is really that relevant. It goes with the right and wrong argument.
As an adult, I can say I’m pretty much in the same boat as you. I am capable of judging right from wrong. But many adults cannot. And many (if not most) children cannot. We agree that kids will find a way to get access to adult programs despite parental limitations, right? Do we simply have to accept this, or can we set expectations for our media? Do we not care what influences others as long as we can get our own share of entertainment? And *why * is so much misery (violence),debauchery (promotion of promiscuity), and profanity entertaining to us? What does this say - that deep down we’re all barbarians who simply wear a thin veil of respectability?? I may come across as a Pollyanna, but I would like to think that we aim to be civilized, and that our media reflects this ideal.
Frankly if someone tells me “you don’t want to see this, it’s immoral” that makes me want to see it even more, why should someone else get to decide what is immoral or crude or vulgar for me. This might be an unfair statement, and I might be a little embattled because if you’ve read my earlier posts you will see that I had a very limited childhood as far as…anything goes. And as quetsionable or as bad at it has gotten it did give me a very strict idea of what was right and what was wrong.
I can say with complete sincerity that I am very glad you were able to triumph over certain obstacles in your life. Do you realize that this is something rather remarkable, and that far too many children perpetuate the negative cycles to which their upbringing exposed them?

As to the part I bolded, We have to be careful here. Again, I don’t know what your religious affiliation is, but here on CAF we’re all pretty much in agreement on what is moral and what isn’t. And it’s not just limited to Catholics – much of our morality is shared by Muslims, Protestants, religious Jews, or in other words – the majority of the nation. Do the needs or desires of the majority not matter when it comes to what is allowed around us? My view of morality is probably very different than the view of a 16-year-old who would probably find Girls Next Door wildly entertaining. But then again, we pretty much agreed that a 16 year-old doesn’t possess the most advanced cognitive skills yet, right? A girl watching that show could very likely find it cool to wear a Playboy pendant (they seem to be in style), or dress like a Playmate for Halloween, or wear a t-shirt that says “Porn Star” (yes, I’ve seen that a few times), because she’s really not thinking about the *significance *of what she’s wearing, nor the implications of it – she simply wants to act sexy and grown-up. Then of course, this makes the young guys around her think that women enjoy objectification (these silly girls probably do), which further influences them to view women in relation to the sexual pleasure they can provide. Then we turn around and wonder why kids are getting pregnant and dropping out of high school, as if there’s no correlation between the two.

…Will continue
 
And it’s not just limited to Catholics – much of our morality is shared by Muslims, Protestants, religious Jews, or in other words – the majority of the nation.

If that was true, then we wouldn’t be having this discussion, because the media would need to cater to that morality in order to gain viewers and make a profit, wouldn’t they?
Someone is choosing to watch all this stuff… The media is going to respond to what makes them the most money, like any good little capitalist organization.
In my opinion, focusing on the media is working the problem backwards. We want to tell everyone how to behave before we give them the reason and the opportunity to receive the grace to make those behavior changes. The focus needs to be on bringing people to God, helping them understand His love, and then letting the grace of God change their hearts and lives. Once that change happens in your life, you don’t want to do anything that would be objectionable to Him. That’s how you stop the demand for immoral programming, and the media will respond in kind. They will continue to do what makes them the most money.
 
If that was true, then we wouldn’t be having this discussion, because the media would need to cater to that morality in order to gain viewers and make a profit, wouldn’t they?
I don’t believe so, simply because most people do not take the time to protest. The lack of active resistance does not equal condonation of what is being slipped in to what we are intending to watch. It is also true that many organizations and people who *do *take the time to protest find their objections to be swept aside as an infringement of “free speech” (which incidentally is a joke, because there is so much free speech that is censored because it does not fit with politically correct opinion). Please correct me if I’m wrong, but the premise of your argument seems to be: "Capitalists have the right to make a profit in any way they choose (so long as it is legal), and obviously people are contributing to their profits (even if they profit at the expense of common decency), so we really should just accept it or turn off the TV and ignore the impact to society.”

Following that same train of thought; If I protested a certain policy of Obama because I found it to be unjust, would it be rational for someone to say “Since his interest as a political candidate is to maintain majority voter support, and he tends to cater to the people who want to mooch off of others……and since he obviously gets at least 50% of Americans to support him even if you personally don’t, you should just keep quiet and accept that he will do whatever is in his interest as a politician to do.….or just get out of the country if you don’t like it.”?
Someone is choosing to watch all this stuff… The media is going to respond to what makes them the most money, like any good little capitalist organization.
So absolve all responsibility?

Something to consider: Liquor and beer companies also make a huge profit off of those who don’t practice moderation, and they thrive financially when alcoholics feel they don’t have a drinking problem. Despite the fact that they make a fortune off of those with addiction, there are still some of us who can enjoy an occasional cocktail and yet still feel that the company has a moral obligation to not promote drunkenness and to add the advice “Please drink responsibly” at the end of their commercials. Yet, we don’t feel that MTV has a moral responsibility to not promote vulgar behavior or provide only good advice to our youth, because some people like what they see and those who don’t should just change the channel?

Tobacco companies also used to make a nice bundle of money off of smokers, and their ads were often aimed at young people, and a large bulk of their propaganda contained the implication that smoking was a sign of sophistication. Tobacco is still legal in this country, and yet someone decided that it was okay to cut into the (legal) profit-making ability of Philip Morris when they decided to ban Marlboro commercials. Now why is THIS censorship approved of, when there are some of us who can watch the propaganda and still choose not to smoke?

I don’t know if anyone here is advocating “absolutely ZERO censorship”, or if censorship should only apply to certain issues. My question to others is: What are the qualifications for censorship? Can we draw a line, or does anything go? Is any regulation possible? And if so, which guidelines should we follow and why?
 
Looking back at TV programming as it has evolved from its beginning, I can recall my parents watching Fulton Sheen, I Love Lucy, Leave it to Beaver, Milton Berle, My Show of Shows with Sid Caesar and Carl Reiner, and similar shows. Of course, early in the morning you could only get a test pattern, and at night the stations (all 3 of them) went off the air by midnight.

Now, if I imagine that one day, the programs normally shown in those days were suddenly replaced the next day by today’s programming, censorship would not have been an issue. My mother would simply have thrown the TV out of the house without further ado.

But of course, the changes were made gradually. So desensitization was certainly at work.
That’s correct. It had to happen gradually. In the 1960s, there was a public service announcement on TV where a well-dressed man informed viewers that his station’s Standards and Practices Department watched all the TV shows we watched to make certain they were suitable for the entire family.

And, of course, we had no clue at the time about what was being planned for the future.

May God have mercy,
Ed
 
I’m working a LOT of hours this week and I know I’m really tired…but are we having a discussion about censoring material for everyone that we personally find objectionable? Isn’t that what everyone gets all upset about when it’s under the heading of "political correctness’?

The problem with censorship is that it’s wonderful until someone tries to use it on you or something you like. Then it’s totalitarian.
 
I’m working a LOT of hours this week and I know I’m really tired…but are we having a discussion about censoring material for everyone that we personally find objectionable? Isn’t that what everyone gets all upset about when it’s under the heading of "political correctness’?

The problem with censorship is that it’s wonderful until someone tries to use it on you or something you like. Then it’s totalitarian.
A bar has to be set somewhere. Would you be alright with hardcore pornography being broadcast on prime time television where any child left unsupervised could just turn it on? Television and radio are subject to censorship moreso than media like film and record, etc. because they are much harder to regulate in terms of audience. And even then, there are some things that any reasonable person would want censored in any case, to the extent in some instances of being criminalized. It’s not totalitarianism; it’s called being civilized.

Political correctness and media censorship are far from the same thing. One is an attempt to stifle any language that might be considered inflammatory insofar as it is blunt and not dressed up in “feel good” language. Censorship seeks to maintain a level of civility and decency in mainstream society. The wonderful thing about a democracy is that the majority rules. It’s the most fair way to play the game. The mission, then, is not to impose one’s view on others, but to convince others that your view is right. Democracy, much like Christianity, does not “force conversions.”
 
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