Twitterpated with an SSPX girl...

[bear06]

Find an indult Mass, perhaps attend her SPPX Masses with her every once in a while (just not for your sunday obligation).

And then you could possibly end up in the situation some in these forums find themselves. I’d keep it on a non-romantic level until she leaves the SSPX. This whole thing can become a sticky situation if one wants someone to become or believe something that they never do. What is it that mom always said? Never date/court someone you hope to change because in most cases they won’t.

 

[TNT]

…
There was another detail I forgot to mention, which is that she is actively seeking a “conditional Confirmation” because she is not convinced her VatII rite Confirmation was valid.
Have her or YOU ask an SSPX priest if they believe it to be VALID. I think they do.
…
The other kink in the gears is that she told me she wouldn’t get married except by an SSPX priest.
It can and has been arranged for an SSPX Priest to conduct a marriage IN A valid wedding. This is usually done by an Anglican Use priest or a TLM priest cooperation. It’s tough but it can be done. You convince them it’s little different than when a Catholic marries an EO or Anglican.
The last thing a true priest wants to happen is to have 10,000’s of little b-tards running around.
… But I’ll bet that if we ever got serious, she wouldn’t mind compromising and being married in an indult Mass.
An SSPX priest would tell her it is a valid Marriage in a TLM.
As far as me attending SSPX Mass with her sometimes, I’m still wary of the squirreliness going on with the PCED regarding the morality of a Catholic attending such a Mass.
There is nothing wrong with attending an SSPX Mass when it’s not your only HolyDay Mass. I’ve done it countless times. I do not receive communion there since I did so at the earlier TLM.
I chalk it up to my obligation toward Ecumenism which is a dogma, at least since VATII.
The 2003 letter doesn’t mention anything regarding receiving Communion. Seriously, I just wish that branch of the Holy See would get its act together and speak univocally as to the rights and responsibilities of Catholics vis-a-vis SSPX.
By that time you’ll both be beyond the age of caring!

You worry tooo much.

 

[bear06]

The other kink in the gears is that she told me she wouldn’t get married except by an SSPX priest. A canon lawyer once told me that SSPX marriages are automatically invalid because the priest’s authority to witness a marriage is nil apart from the local ordinary’s permission. But I’ll bet that if we ever got serious, she wouldn’t mind compromising and being married in an indult Mass.

Don’t let anyone tell you different even though they’ll try. That said, remember, you’re likely to have children someday.

As far as me attending SSPX Mass with her sometimes, I’m still wary of the squirreliness going on with the PCED regarding the morality of a Catholic attending such a Mass. The 2003 letter doesn’t mention anything regarding receiving Communion.

Here’s what Archbishop Burke has to say on approaching a schismatic priest for the reception of the sacraments:

The faithful who approach a schismatic priest for the reception of the Sacraments, except in the case of danger of death, commit a mortal sin.

archstl.org/commoffice/2005/articles/12-16-05-column.pdf

Yes it had to deal with the Polish fiasco in his diocese but he didn’t not mention them specifically. He spoke generally here.

Seriously, I just wish that branch of the Holy See would get its act together and speak univocally as to the rights and responsibilities of Catholics vis-a-vis SSPX

Probably not going to happen when they’re trying to get them to reconcile.

 

[Godefridus]

Here’s what Archbishop Burke has to say on approaching a schismatic priest for the reception of the sacraments:
archstl.org/commoffice/2005/articles/12-16-05-column.pdf

The last time I went to an SSPX Mass I received Communion, but I didn’t know any better since the 2003 letter from Msgr. Perl doesn’t address this. Based on the Archbishop’s teaching, I will avoid receiving Communion again, though I may attend those Masses if the girl and I continue seeing each other (I’m waiting to see if she flies off to the monastery after her retreat).

But honestly, I’m leaning more towards giving up. The thought of seeing her commit mortal sin every time she went up to receive Communion is just too darn painful.

 

[MarSarkees]

The last time I went to an SSPX Mass I received Communion, but I didn’t know any better since the 2003 letter from Msgr. Perl doesn’t address this. Based on the Archbishop’s teaching, I will avoid receiving Communion again, though I may attend those Masses if the girl and I continue seeing each other (I’m waiting to see if she flies off to the monastery after her retreat).

But honestly, I’m leaning more towards giving up. The thought of seeing her commit mortal sin every time she went up to receive Communion is just too darn painful.

Yeah I agree you should get rid of this girl. You dont want such a militantly schismatic wife. Especially one that revels in the Mortal sin of Sacrilege. Out of a spirit of Charity, I’d like to help you end this. I’ll take her out to dinner for you and explain why you guys just will not work out.

No no…Its ok you dont have to thank me. Just typical me making sacrifices for the Kingdom!

 

[Unfinished]

Yeah I agree you should get rid of this girl. You dont want such a militantly schismatic wife. Especially one that revels in the Mortal sin of Sacrilege. Out of a spirit of Charity, I’d like to help you end this. I’ll take her out to dinner for you and explain why you guys just will not work out.

No no…Its ok you dont have to thank me. Just typical me making sacrifices for the Kingdom!

lol.

I know. What a horrible problem to have. /sarcasm off.

I thought about this some more and I changed my mind. It makes it a little tougher since her views teeter on the brink of being sedevacantist. But I wouldn’t throw in the towel. More than one marriage has come from a Catholic marrying a Protestant. (And this girl is Catholic!) I think convincing a Catholic that VII wasn’t invalid is a much eaiser task. But a woman who is THAT dedicated to the Church is hard to find. (Please refrain from the “If she was really dedicated she would trust in the modern sacraments…blah blah” comments).

Just don’t put your entire heart and soul into her, guy. Take her on dates and have fun with her. Play putt-putt and whatnot. When the Church comes up (and let her bring it up) calmly explain why you feel the post VII sacraments are valid. (You will have to read up on this, of course. You MUST be prepared and knowledgeable!)

Remember, patience and charity. She may get a bit heated or upset (As we all often do) but don’t let it bother you. Let it roll off you like water. Just don’t let it turn into a fight. Above all, act like a proper Catholic should and she may come around. Or, the SSPX may come home within a year or two and you won’t have to worry about it.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

lol.

But a woman who is THAT dedicated to the Church is hard to find. (Please refrain from the “If she was really dedicated she would trust in the modern sacraments…blah blah” comments).

Ultra-orthodoxy is an escape hatch from orthodoxy.

The old religion loses all credibility, and the vast majority of young people quietly leave. However there are always a few who can’t bring themselves to reject the instituion, but they still see the narrowness and the decline, and want a way out.

Ultra-orthodoxy provides it, There they have a small radical group of often young people, very dedicated, and with a low old lady count. It is an exciting new adventure. The elders in the orthodox church cannot criticise them for laxness, it is they who criticse the elders.

Though this young lady’s response is much more positive and creative than most young peoples’ rebellions, it is ultimately a blind alley. The same thing that happened to the orthodox church will happen to the ultra-orthodox church in the next generation, if it survives at all.
If she can be brought to see this, maybe she will be more creative still, and a find a way of renewing the main Church.

 

[bear06]

More of mom’s wisdom: Never date anyone you wouldn’t want to marry.

Sorry guys, I think women tend to think a little farther down the line. This is not always a bad thing. Think about what happens when a couple like this has children? How will her beliefs effect them? Do you really think they should live in a house where mom and dad argue the Faith with each other? Sure, some have entered into marriages and been forced to deal with this but should one really be seeking this? Maybe I’m old fashioned but I think the man is to be the spiritual head of the household. I don’t think it’s good to have two heads.

 

[Hesychios]

… The thought of seeing her commit mortal sin every time she went up to receive Communion is just too darn painful.

I find this an incredible statement.

Jesus, the Good Shepherd, tells us that He would leave the 99 for the sake of one lost sheep.

He does not condemn the adulterous woman, nor the Samaritan woman at the well (whom He uses as an evangelist to the village, and is a saint today).

Jesus Christ forgives, He understands. God’s ways are not our ways, and it is dangerous for us to be the Pharisee to her Publican.

Please do not judge other people, you do not know the content of her heart. I for one cannot imagine that God is so unforgiving as to damn her soul because of the sincerity in her heart to do the right thing. She may be misguided, but she is not manifesting evil.

I find the most disturbing thing you have mentioned is her desire to seek a conditional confirmation. That she denies the efficacy of a sacrament is potentially a much more serious problem than even sedevacantism would be.

If you are her friend, help her and do not abandon her. Even if you or she eventually marries another you can still be her friend and help her.

Michael

 

[bear06]

How 'bout this?

The thought of seeing her possibly committing a mortal sin every time she went up to receive Communion is just too darn painful.

 

[BobP123]

The last time I went to an SSPX Mass I received Communion, but I didn’t know any better since the 2003 letter from Msgr. Perl doesn’t address this. Based on the Archbishop’s teaching, I will avoid receiving Communion again, though I may attend those Masses if the girl and I continue seeing each other (I’m waiting to see if she flies off to the monastery after her retreat).

But honestly, I’m leaning more towards giving up. The thought of seeing her commit mortal sin every time she went up to receive Communion is just too darn painful.

What do you mean you didn’t know any better? The Communion is valid, no need to worry about that. And the Mass is Catholic, no need to worry about that either.

“Can. 844 §2 Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage commends it, and provided the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, Christ’s faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a catholic minister, may lawfully receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick from non-catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.”

“Can. 1248 §1 The obligation of assisting at Mass is satisfied wherever Mass is celebrated in a catholic rite either on a holyday itself or on the evening of the previous day.”

Have your bishop read the Council of Trent documents if he has a problem with the Latin Mass being a Catholic Rite.

Bear might do likewise.

 

[Hesychios]

How 'bout this?

The thought of seeing her possibly committing a mortal sin every time she went up to receive Communion is just too darn painful.

How can the image of someone worshipping God in the best way she knows be thought of in that way? If this is the biggest complaint, she might be a saint!

***Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions, occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. ***

***In contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. ***

***Now those who belong to Christ (Jesus) have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires. ***

*If we live in the Spirit, let us also follow the Spirit. Let us not be conceited, provoking one another, envious of one another. *
Galatians 5 19:26

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Except the fact that he’d never told anyone to kiss the '62 missal or anything else.

It would have been nice if JP2 had offered Mass in the pre-1969 form of the Latin Rite.​

It would be nice if B16 does so on occasion, now that he is Pope.

 

[BobP123]

Out of a spirit of Charity, I’d like to help you end this. I’ll take her out to dinner for you and explain why you guys just will not work out. No no…Its ok you dont have to thank me. Just typical me making sacrifices for the Kingdom!

And who are you? Jack Nicholson? LOL!!

(He played some good scenes in “Anger Management.”)

 

[bear06]

What do you mean you didn’t know any better? The Communion is valid, no need to worry about that. And the Mass is Catholic, no need to worry about that either.

Obviously you didn’t read Archbishop Burke’s quote above. It’s not about the Mass being Catholic or not. It’s about receiving the sacraments from a schismatic priest.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

bear06:

Except the fact that he’d never told anyone to kiss the '62 missal or anything else.

It would have been nice if JP2 had offered Mass in the pre-1969 form of the Latin Rite.​

It would be nice if B16 does so on occasion, now that he is Pope.

 

[Unfinished]

It would have been nice if JP2 had offered Mass in the pre-1969 form of the Latin Rite.​

It would be nice if B16 does so on occasion, now that he is Pope.

I have heard that Benedict does say it in private.

 

[BobP123]

I have heard that Benedict does say it in private.

Wouldn’t surprise me. And it wouldn’t surprise me if he had an occasional cup of coffee with (SSPX) Bishop Fellay either.

 

[bear06]

I have heard that Benedict does say it in private.

Who did you hear this from? I doubt we can be sure what the Pope does in private. I’ve heard differently but said the same thing about that comment.

 

[pnewton]

Do you actually use the word “twitterpated”???

That was my first thought, too.

My second thought was that if I were to marry such a girl, there would be not question that the man is the spirtual head of the house. It may be she is SSPX because she has been raised that way and has never considered the downside. If she is dead set and stubborn and won’t budge, I would either look else where or get ready to where the skirt in the house.