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blacktiger057
Guest
My thoughts exactly, well said!
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Mark77
Guest
They would not respect her and she asked them to move out. Your assumption is absurd, she never rejected them!
Perhaps if more people chose the Truth over their childrens’ selfish interests, we would have a better world.
I guarantee that you will regret allowing them to follow a cult. Do you remember Waco, or Jim Jones??
No one should respect any faith, only the Truth has earned respect!
You are right about about one thing. Love.
"Deus Caritas Est, God is love, and those who abide in love abide in God, and God abides in them." 1 Jn 4:16.
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!
Mark
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totoatkansas
Guest
One daughter was indoctrinated at 18 as she started her college years, she was being very pushy with her newfound beliefs and we were not getting along so she left on her own to live with one of the woman from this church. A year or so later I allowed her to come back home as her college was nearby. Before I realized it she had been trying to persuade her sister two yrs her senior. They were 20-22yrs when I gave them an ultimatum as they were both pushing me to listen to their interpretation of the Bible. There was no way to dialog with them they only wanted me to listen as I did not know what I was talking about. They would not listen to my Scott Hahn tapes nor read any of my books IE Catholicism vs Fundamentalism; Rome Sweet Home. J. Macarthur (ism) is where they have gotten their belief system. He has a CD out titled" The Shame of the Priesthood ", this has nothing to do with the recent scandal of some of our Priests. This CD contains pretty much what their belief system is now and what they are teaching my grandchild en. This CD is only made available to a few persons. I heard it quite by accident and it is full of the lies of the great lier himself. The Eucharist is a Jesus cookie; the Eucharist is just a symbol; Eucharistic adoration is idolatry; Blessed Mary was just a vessel; she was a sinner like the rest of us; prayer to her is blasphemous you should only pray to Jesus; Mary had other children she therefore could not be a perpetual virgin; the Pope is the Antichrist; you should not confess your sins to a mere man; and on & on. I try to make confession every month and I receive the Body of Christ as often as I am allowed. I pray a lot mostly for the grandchildren and I Thank God that their parents do believe in Jesus Christ. I know there are a lot of parents out there with the same heartache I have and I pray for them also. I had T-shirts made that say; I love being Catholic; I love the Eucharist the body of Christ; I love His church; Blessed Mary His Mother; the Pope; the priests; the Sacraments and I wear them at family functions to show I remain strong in my faith.
There is never a comment from anyone. My statues of the Blessed Mother and St. Francis that I have in my yard I have gotten comments on from my grandchildren 3&4 yrs “your not supposed to have statues Gramma it says so in the Bible”. Yet they can have a manger scene of statues at Christmas time. Thank God for Mother Angelica and EWTN was it not for them I would not have my sanity. The Journey Home came into existence a week or two after my girls (women now) left my home and I have not missed many of the programs. Since I have found the internet I am learning a lot also. I think I have said too much, I do want to thank you all again for your positive and negative comments. I am a humble person and I realize there is so much to learn from all peoples. I thank Jesus daily for making me who I am and to please not stop working on me. As for my family I can only wait for God to change their hearts and keep the hope that that will be His will. Yours in Christ
There is never a comment from anyone. My statues of the Blessed Mother and St. Francis that I have in my yard I have gotten comments on from my grandchildren 3&4 yrs “your not supposed to have statues Gramma it says so in the Bible”. Yet they can have a manger scene of statues at Christmas time. Thank God for Mother Angelica and EWTN was it not for them I would not have my sanity. The Journey Home came into existence a week or two after my girls (women now) left my home and I have not missed many of the programs. Since I have found the internet I am learning a lot also. I think I have said too much, I do want to thank you all again for your positive and negative comments. I am a humble person and I realize there is so much to learn from all peoples. I thank Jesus daily for making me who I am and to please not stop working on me. As for my family I can only wait for God to change their hearts and keep the hope that that will be His will. Yours in Christ
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swariffin
Guest
I do feel sorry to hear that, brother. My prayer for them. Was it a criminal case under the US law? I think your daughters were there against their own will, weren’t they?
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kalt
Guest
IMO, asking your adult children to act like adults isn’t wrong.
It’s perfectly OK for parents to tell their kids that it’s time to grow up. If an adult is a rude house guest, there’s nothing wrong with asking them to leave.
It’s a parent’s job to help their children become responsible, independant adults.
I have no idea why people are assuming that asking your rude, adult children to move out is wrong.
Even if they weren’t being rude, asking them to at least to try ot make it on their own is the right. It’s so right, that I can’t believe people are finding anything wrong with it, much less accusing the OP of not loviing her kids.
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EvolvedAtheist
Guest
No, my being here does NOT prove my statement to be in error and I am sorry that you are apparently offended by my presence. You clearly have no idea why I am here. I saw a link on a website referring to a post here and I felt so terrible for the woman in question that I felt the need to offer her support. That has nothing to do with my stance on God or religion. I took the name that I did because I didn’t want to feel as though I was misrepresenting myself as that would be a form of deciept (which I despise). So in the spirit of honesty I post here because after my first conversation with a woman on here regarding her personal pain, I found myself drawn to the troubles of others here.
Now, onto dogma. Dogma is not the same thing as rules. Dogma is defined as a list of tenets taken without evidence and as truth without question. def; “A doctrinal notion asserted without regard to evidence or truth; an arbitrary dictum”
OR “a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down, as by a church: the dogma of the Assumption.”
having Dogma does not make people closed minded (and I don’t think that I ever implied that you were personally) but religious institutions do discourage its members from believing other tenets. That is what was stated in a previous post, and that is what I remarked on.
I made no assertion that Catholicism denied people their free choice other than teaching children things about the world without regard to other possibilities presented (that is indoctrination) I was a Catholic for 30 years and have a very clear picture of what the church is and what it represents.
I am not sure why this seems to have turned into an argument on whether religions indoctrinate because I thought the concern here was for the girls and their mother who are on a very difficult road at present.
If you wish to have a debate on religious matters I am more than willing to do so, but I will state again that debate is not my reason for being here.
For my part I hope that this hasn’t distracted the issue of the family in need of help and guidance. Lets turn our thoughts to them.
Ricko if you wish to continue debate, lets make a new thread and do it there, where it takes no attentions away from people in need asking for help.
Peace
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EvolvedAtheist
Guest
You seem a very loving woman who is torn between her beliefs and the pain of her children rejecting those beliefs. I was at first concerned about the things that they were taught being morally wrong, or harmful. Now that I see it is just a doctrinal disagreement then you have a few choices. You can listen to your children, actually consider their thoughts, research from outside sources the veracity of their claims and THEN discuss how you have changed your mind based on what they have said, or how and why you have not. That is open discussion. There is no open discussion based on different dogma that can be fruitful if argued soley from dogmatic knowledge as dogma is authoritatively handed down. Find your answers from independant sources (outside the church) and when you return you will have the ammunition to show your daughters where they are wrong in their judgments. If you just fire your dogma back at them, you have no ammunition because that is what they are fighting against in the first place. See what I mean? Independantly verify your beliefs, and then fight with facts, not dogma. You can convince them if you use knowledge, fact, and history. OR you can just have a discussion on WHY you believe, but they have to be open to consider your beliefs as well. This is a very difficult position to be in totoatkansas, and I can sympathise, but you need to pull yourself away from the hurt that it causes to have your children reject your dearly held beliefs. It will be hard for either of you to have a completely open discussion about it I am sure, but good luck.One daughter was indoctrinated at 18 as she started her college years, she was being very pushy with her newfound beliefs and we were not getting along so she left on her own to live with one of the woman from this church. A year or so later I allowed her to come back home as her college was nearby. Before I realized it she had been trying to persuade her sister two yrs her senior. They were 20-22yrs when I gave them an ultimatum as they were both pushing me to listen to their interpretation of the Bible. There was no way to dialog with them they only wanted me to listen as I did not know what I was talking about. They would not listen to my Scott Hahn tapes nor read any of my books IE Catholicism vs Fundamentalism; Rome Sweet Home. J. Macarthur (ism) is where they have gotten their belief system. He has a CD out titled" The Shame of the Priesthood ", this has nothing to do with the recent scandal of some of our Priests. This CD contains pretty much what their belief system is now and what they are teaching my grandchild en. This CD is only made available to a few persons. I heard it quite by accident and it is full of the lies of the great lier himself. The Eucharist is a Jesus cookie; the Eucharist is just a symbol; Eucharistic adoration is idolatry; Blessed Mary was just a vessel; she was a sinner like the rest of us; prayer to her is blasphemous you should only pray to Jesus; Mary had other children she therefore could not be a perpetual virgin; the Pope is the Antichrist; you should not confess your sins to a mere man; and on & on. I try to make confession every month and I receive the Body of Christ as often as I am allowed. I pray a lot mostly for the grandchildren and I Thank God that their parents do believe in Jesus Christ. I know there are a lot of parents out there with the same heartache I have and I pray for them also. I had T-shirts made that say; I love being Catholic; I love the Eucharist the body of Christ; I love His church; Blessed Mary His Mother; the Pope; the priests; the Sacraments and I wear them at family functions to show I remain strong in my faith.
Love is the enemy of disruption
Peace
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derekohachey
Guest
Dear totoatkansas,
John MacArthur and his followers like other ultra-Calvinists, and Fundamentalists will have strong Anti-Catholic sentiments more so than other sects of Christianity. The justification for these autonomous authorities and organizations to exists rests on the unbiblical argument that the gates of Hell has prevailed against Christ’s one true Church, which is why their attacks and evangelization are mostly aimed at Catholics.
I have seen instances where these types of sects use “anger” as a means of evangelization. Now I don’t mean anger in the traditional sense, but I mean that as you said they will use strategic and limited Bible quotations and take Church statements out of context to make the argument that we have all been taught lies from our early Catholic childhood. This kindles an anger or mistrust sentiment within the person and “hardens” their heart from hearing other points of view.
Now there is a good and bad here. The good is that your Daughters are not lukewarm, they care about their faith, they love the Gospel and they love Jesus Christ. The bad here is that it will take quite an effort for them to soften their hearts and open their eyes to the fullness of Truth.
It is good that you are on fire for your faith and have got some T-Shirts with some neat slogans, but based on the info I see here, I wonder whether wearing these shirts in the presence of your Daughters will be helpful. It may just make them tense up. The general idea here is to break down the barriers and opening the dialog. I would not worry too much about your statues.
I would also say that if your Daughters are open to more discussions then agree with them to have a two-way discussion where both sides can present their point of view to attentive ears; otherwise I would put off discussing the Faith until an agreement can be made. Make sure you don’t get trapped into the doctrinal dance where multiple topics are thrown at you almost simultaneously. If this happens make a note of the new topic, issue or question and promise to follow up on the issue and address it at later time.
This is not an exercise of “throwing” dogmas at each other, but rather a discussion on whether the Bible contradicts a doctrine or dogma. In these cases, we must refer to the totality of Scripture as it pertains to the doctrine or dogma in question. If your Daughters are open to it, lookup what the Early Church Fathers have to make on the subject.
This is very much a one step at a time process. There will be setbacks and this will be frustrating and it will not happen over night, but remember that your job is to plant the seeds. Not only will your words be important, but your attitude and composure will also be important in witnessing to your Daughters. Remember St Francis of Assisi’s motto: Evangelize always, sometimes use words.
If you are interested, here is a website containing a good compilation of the writings of the early Church Fathers:
newadvent.org/fathers/
Here are some more websites
scripturecatholic.com/
biblechristiansociety.com/
Trust in God, keep praying and most of all keep in a State of Grace (I am referring to the Catholic understanding of being in a State of Grace here). I will keep you in my prayers.
God Bless,
Derek
John MacArthur and his followers like other ultra-Calvinists, and Fundamentalists will have strong Anti-Catholic sentiments more so than other sects of Christianity. The justification for these autonomous authorities and organizations to exists rests on the unbiblical argument that the gates of Hell has prevailed against Christ’s one true Church, which is why their attacks and evangelization are mostly aimed at Catholics.
I have seen instances where these types of sects use “anger” as a means of evangelization. Now I don’t mean anger in the traditional sense, but I mean that as you said they will use strategic and limited Bible quotations and take Church statements out of context to make the argument that we have all been taught lies from our early Catholic childhood. This kindles an anger or mistrust sentiment within the person and “hardens” their heart from hearing other points of view.
Now there is a good and bad here. The good is that your Daughters are not lukewarm, they care about their faith, they love the Gospel and they love Jesus Christ. The bad here is that it will take quite an effort for them to soften their hearts and open their eyes to the fullness of Truth.
It is good that you are on fire for your faith and have got some T-Shirts with some neat slogans, but based on the info I see here, I wonder whether wearing these shirts in the presence of your Daughters will be helpful. It may just make them tense up. The general idea here is to break down the barriers and opening the dialog. I would not worry too much about your statues.
I would also say that if your Daughters are open to more discussions then agree with them to have a two-way discussion where both sides can present their point of view to attentive ears; otherwise I would put off discussing the Faith until an agreement can be made. Make sure you don’t get trapped into the doctrinal dance where multiple topics are thrown at you almost simultaneously. If this happens make a note of the new topic, issue or question and promise to follow up on the issue and address it at later time.
This is not an exercise of “throwing” dogmas at each other, but rather a discussion on whether the Bible contradicts a doctrine or dogma. In these cases, we must refer to the totality of Scripture as it pertains to the doctrine or dogma in question. If your Daughters are open to it, lookup what the Early Church Fathers have to make on the subject.
This is very much a one step at a time process. There will be setbacks and this will be frustrating and it will not happen over night, but remember that your job is to plant the seeds. Not only will your words be important, but your attitude and composure will also be important in witnessing to your Daughters. Remember St Francis of Assisi’s motto: Evangelize always, sometimes use words.
If you are interested, here is a website containing a good compilation of the writings of the early Church Fathers:
newadvent.org/fathers/
Here are some more websites
scripturecatholic.com/
biblechristiansociety.com/
Trust in God, keep praying and most of all keep in a State of Grace (I am referring to the Catholic understanding of being in a State of Grace here). I will keep you in my prayers.
God Bless,
Derek
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EvolvedAtheist
Guest
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ricko
Guest
I posted the above quote to make sure that everyone knows that the daughters will not engage in dialog. The seeds of this cult started with one daughter, then to the other and has now spread to the grandchildren.
Remember these verses:
"Do not suppose that my mission on earth is to spread peace. My mission is to spread , not peace, but division. I have come to set a man at odds with his father, a daughter with her mother…Whoever loves father or mother, son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matthew 10:34
Blest are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of slander against you because of me.
Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is great in heaven. Matthew 5:11
You are to be commended for taking up your cross. God Bless
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