two JWs at my door today.

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"BEFORE you shut the door on a Jehovah’s Witness,” says an article in the newspaper USA Today, “pause to consider the shameful persecution they suffered not too long ago, as well as the rich contribution they have made to the First Amendment freedoms we all enjoy.”

Some 30 cases involving Jehovah’s Witnesses came before the U.S. Supreme Court in the five-year period between 1938 and 1943. The article says: “So frequently did Witnesses raise core First Amendment issues that Justice Harlan Fiske Stone wrote, ‘The Jehovah’s Witnesses ought to have an endowment in view of the aid which they give in solving the legal problems of civil liberties.’”

Thus, near its conclusion the article states: “All religions have the Jehovah’s Witnesses to thank for the expansion of [religious] freedom."
 
BibleSteve said:
In his book These Also Believe, Professor C. S. Braden writes: “They [Jehovah’s Witnesses] have performed a signal service to democracy by their fight to preserve their civil rights, for in their struggle they have done much to secure those rights for every minority group in America. When the civil rights of any one group are invaded, the rights of no other group are safe. They have therefore made a definite contribution to the preservation of some of the most precious things in our democracy.”
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Could some of those minority groups include Gay rights activism, pro abortion movements, polygamists, sodomites, and pornographers? Just a thought.

Either way, that’s not the topic of this conversation.

The simple truth of the matter is you are walking the path to eternal damnation in the abyss of Hell. If you reject Jesus, you reject salvation. The Son of all Men said it himself. It’s that simple. Doesn’t matter how many legal verdicts there were, you will burn in hell if you reject Jesus Christ.
Mat 10:32-33
So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows. "Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
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Please Steve, stop this incessant rambling on and just pray to God, and ask him. “God, I want to know the truth about Jesus. Please help me find it and send me the grace to see your sign…” God is giving you a chance, take it!
 
revelations said:
Either way, that’s not the topic of this conversation.
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Dear Revelation,

The quotes were in response to a specific question.
The simple truth of the matter is you are walking the path to eternal damnation in the abyss of Hell. If you reject Jesus, you reject salvation. The Son of all Men said it himself. It’s that simple. Doesn’t matter how many legal verdicts there were, you will burn in hell if you reject Jesus Christ.
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Your are quite presumptuous and judgmental.

I haven’t rejected Jesus. To the contrary, I know him, trust him, and accept him as providing my salvation (John 3:16).
 
After reading these posts and being confronted by a JW myself today I find myself wondering…do JW’s have a goal of converting the whole world? And just who will convert who if a JW meets a Islamic fanatic?
 
Celeste, if a JW ever met with an Islamic fundie, the latter would probably go out of his way to kill the former. Whether it was because he was an infidel, or simply because he was annoying. 😃

At that point, the JW would probably run after the nearest uniformed servicemember screaming PLEEEEEASE PROTECT MEEEEEEEEEEE!!!:eek:

🤷
 
Seabee4681 said:
Celeste, if a JW ever met with an Islamic fundie, the latter would probably go out of his way to kill the former. Whether it was because he was an infidel, or simply because he was annoying. 😃

At that point, the JW would probably run after the nearest uniformed servicemember screaming PLEEEEEASE PROTECT MEEEEEEEEEEE!!!:eek:

🤷
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Allow me to warn you first…watch comments like that, or you’ll get banned!
 
Yes. Those who came to my door say that it is wrong to celebrate Christmas or to have Christmas trees. For the condemnation of Christmas trees they quote:"(Jer 10:2-4) Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."
According to these JW, Christmas trees, etc., are forbidden by the Bible.
 
bobzills said:
Yes. Those who came to my door say that it is wrong to celebrate Christmas or to have Christmas trees. For the condemnation of Christmas trees they quote:"(Jer 10:2-4) Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."
According to these JW, Christmas trees, etc., are forbidden by the Bible.
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Wait, is it OK provided we cut down our Christmas trees with a chain saw rather than an ax?

I’m sorry, I’m being silly and mean. It’s time for me to go to bed anyway.
 
BibleSteve said:
…The reason this question was thrown out is because Jehovah’s Witnesses understand “the great crowd” who came “out of the great tribulation” of Rev 7:9, 14 to be a group of people who will live here on earth, while a smaller group of 144,000 will be invited to live in heaven and operate as kings and priests in Christ’s Kingdom.
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You are missing the charge - the point is that Jesus Christ is addressing this to each and every one of us. The beatitudes are for all of us, right…we are each and every one of us when reading this a part of that great crowd listening to Our Lord speak. You are honing in and spilling lots of electronic ink trying to battle “the geat crowd”, when you really should be listening to Jesus’ words and promises:

I’m going to use Matthews Gospel here because I think it’s a bit more illustrative with the first beatitude… And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain, and when he was set down, his disciples came unto him. And opening his mouth, he taught them, saying: Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are the meek: for they shall possess the land. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called children of God. Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake: Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven. For so they persecuted the prophets that were before you.
Matthew 5:1-11, DR

The promise is to all followers of Christ who are poor in spirit…totally trusting and hoping and relying on God, offering their entire beings to Him.

“I am not my own” as the faithful Catholic says…“I belong to God. Everything I have and am that is of any value whatsoever…is from God. I am dependant on Him for all things.” If you truly believe this and truly live this out to the best of your ability - yours is the Kingdom of Heaven.

And if you really think and pray on it, you will see that being poor of Spirit includes all the following beatitudes…all the following characteristics and subsequent blessings describe in more detail the first one given.

And yes - even the NWT can’t get away from this: When he saw the crowds he went up into the mountain; and after he sat down his disciples came to him; 2 and he opened his mouth and began teaching them, saying:
"Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.
Matthew 5:1-3, NWT

Surly you are not saying that only 144,000 specific individuals are “consious of their spiritual needs”!

Anyway, there’s alot more to say and tons more problems with the sad literal reading of 144,000 - most specifically, so many poor souls losing the hope and promise of being with God forever - being denied the Beautific Vision - which is the greatest of all gifts and the gift Christ Our Lord and Savior DIED TO GIVE US!

My stomach just did a flip-flop as I suddenly realized while typing the above paragraph what a horrendous slap in the face this doctrine is to Our Lord.

May my God and Savior Jesus Christ have mercy on us all.

DustinsDad
 
bobzills said:
Yes. Those who came to my door say that it is wrong to celebrate Christmas or to have Christmas trees. For the condemnation of Christmas trees they quote:"(Jer 10:2-4) Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."
According to these JW, Christmas trees, etc., are forbidden by the Bible.
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how about artificial trees:D
 
They are enthusiastic…I will give them that and so beautifully dressed in heat and humidity…

I do love just saying I am a Catholic it usually has a recoil reaction of a mouse coming up to a snake… I always offer them water as it would be grossly inhospitable not to do so…👍
 
There is no argument that Jesus spoke of some going to heaven. He also spoke of those who will live on the earth:

(Matthew 5:5) “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.

This wasn’t a new idea:

(Psalm 37:10-11) And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more; And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. 11*But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

Those who do go to heaven will have a specific purpose for doing so:

(Revelation 5:9-10) And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10*and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

If you’re going to have a group of people ruling as kings and priests over the earth, you might think there are some people on the earth.

(2 Peter 3:13) But there are new heavens and **a new earth **that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.
 
BibleSteve said:
Pay keen attention to the context:

(Acts 4:12) Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”

Under heaven… among men…
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I did pay keen attention: There is no salvation in anyone else…
 
BibleSteve said:
If you are sincerely interested in the answers to any of those questions, please drop me a PM and I’d be glad to answer them for you.
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When Paul was arguing from the Scriptures in Thessalonica (Acts 17) did he do it in private, or in public?

Jeremy
 
Celeste88 said:
After reading these posts and being confronted by a JW myself today I find myself wondering…do JW’s have a goal of converting the whole world? And just who will convert who if a JW meets a Islamic fanatic?
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This is an interesting link that I had saved from a few years back

cbsnews.com/stories/2002/08/22/world/main519475.shtml
The heads of two Jehovah’s Witnesses kidnapped in a Muslim extremist group’s stronghold were found dumped in a public market Thursday in the southern Philippines. Four other members of the Christian sect remained captives.
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Well…I got a phone call yesterday which I thought was from a political worker. She started asking me how I feel about the war in Iraq and how war is against the scriptures (I told her to call Bush) etc. and then I questioned her as far as who she is and how she got my number. She said she was a JW bible teacher (oh great) and she got my number from a list at a library (?!) I told her I had no time to speak and had to go, bye. I’m now afraid she will call some other time. I don’t know how to match wits with a JW Bible teacher. Watch out, now they are calling people on the phone and sounding like political canvasers! 😦
 
Celeste88 said:
Well…I got a phone call yesterday which I thought was from a political worker. She started asking me how I feel about the war in Iraq and how war is against the scriptures (I told her to call Bush) etc. and then I questioned her as far as who she is and how she got my number. She said she was a JW bible teacher (oh great) and she got my number from a list at a library (?!) I told her I had no time to speak and had to go, bye. I’m now afraid she will call some other time. I don’t know how to match wits with a JW Bible teacher. Watch out, now they are calling people on the phone and sounding like political canvasers! 😦
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Political canvassers usually get an earful from me. I suppose I can do the same favor for the JWs. 😃
 
Okay, BibleSteve has posted a response to Gara3987’s questions.

Does Gara3987 care to respond?
 
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