two JWs at my door today.

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Bayley said:
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 I also disagree with their concept of being of this world but not a part of it.  I was told that they don't participate in the political process, for this reason.  They don't join the military because it's not in keeping with their beliefs.  I may be wrong, but I don't know how you can be your brother's keeper, so to speak, and yet keep yourself apart from him or her.  I don't think anyone "believes" in war, but, the Bible does tell us that "there is a time for war and a time for peace."  .
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But the war that the Bible was talking about is quite different from what may be involved in a future war. I have to respect this idea of pacifism and refusing war. Wars always result in hurting innocent people. But if in a future war, nuclear weapons are used, it will be horrific and terrible. Nuclear weapons are unlike any weapon which was available at the time that the Bible was written. They are indiscriminate in their destruction as you cannot use a nuclear bomb to focus in on a military target and not harm innocent civilians. There will be massive firestorms, huge blasts, and enormous damage and destruction to property and innocent life at the time of the explosion. But that’s not all. There will be poisonous radioctive gases released, which have the potential of harming every living thing on the planet. We must avoid such a war. It is the USA which has 50% of the world’s nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, but 5% of the world’s population. Is it right to base peace on evil weapons, or would it be sounder to base peace on humanitarian and relgious foundations. See the site: pax christi for more information:
paxchristiusa.org/
paxchristi.net/
 
Well, perhaps I interpret the passage differently. The way I read it, it simply means that there are times, and reasons, for a people to defend themselves. I don’t take it to mean that we should go to war at the drop of a hat. Or that we should instigate a war. I see it as saying that defending one’s self, or country, is sometimes justified and/or needed.
 
Bayley said:
Well, perhaps I interpret the passage differently. The way I read it, it simply means that there are times, and reasons, for a people to defend themselves. I don’t take it to mean that we should go to war at the drop of a hat. Or that we should instigate a war. I see it as saying that defending one’s self, or country, is sometimes justified and/or needed.
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The problem that I see is that with today’s weapons, there is the chance that a small war might be expanded into one which involves nuclear weapons. Nuclear bombs kill massively and without distinction, both combatant soldiers and innocent civilians will be killed. They are horrificly and horrendously cruel as they will cause huge blasts and shock waves, set off huge firestorms, and will kill and incinerate all life in a large area. Not only that, but they will spew out massive amounts of poisonous, long lasting radiation, which will slowly kill many forms of life for years and years. More and more countries are relying on nuclear weapons as a means of defense. But once one country defends itself agaisnt another by the use of nuclear weapons, the result could be catastrophic for all of humanity.
 
LOL!
I just read the opening of this thread and was thinking good for you!
Then I saw that this is up to page 17?! What the heck could they be talking about for 17 pages. THis is kinda open and closed case.
The last post has it up to nuclear war. Man how did we bridge these two gaps? 👍
 
Correct me if I’m wrong; I don’t think JWs are againts war. Their are against going themselves to war just as they are againts helping the poor. If it was up to them, the rest of the world could burn to the ground so they can inherit the earth.

On another note: Biblesteve made some good arguments in defending his JW point of view but I’m specialy proud on how DustinsDad and the others held their ground in defending our faith.

May God bless you,

Biblesteven, May God bless you too and may the Holy spirit enter into your heart so that you can see his true glory.
 
Jehovah’s Witnesses are not opposed to war IN PRINCIPLE.
What I mean by that,
is that they WOULD go to war if
they believed that Jehovah WANTED them to.
But they see all countries since 1914 as existing politically
in OPPOSITION to the heavenly reign of Jesus over earth,
which began that year according to them,
and therefore in their thinking to go to war would
run the risk of JWs killing FOREIGN JWs over political issues
that they consider have nothing to do with their ministry.

By the way, I don’t think it is good for Catholics to risk killing
foreign Catholics in a war either. We are members of a covenant, the New Covenant, which is much more sacred than our National Citizenship and duties. We Catholics are COVENANT BROTHERS AND SISTERS. True, at times war is unavoidable
but we must always try to find a peaceful way out of it, try our best to avoid it. Also, war sometimes is a punishment for sin.
Our nation, the USA, which I love as my homeland, our culture,
is becoming EXTREMELY wicked and sinful.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
By the way, I don’t think it is good for Catholics to risk killing
foreign Catholics in a war either. We are members of a covenant, the New Covenant, which is much more sacred than our National Citizenship and duties. We Catholics are COVENANT BROTHERS AND SISTERS.
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That happened in WWI and WWII.
 
Hmmm, now how can we identify who is and who isn’t Catholic before shooting at them? We are ALL brothers and sisters in Christ and we must always remember that. However, when our goverment feels it necessary for us to go to war, and the reason is just, we must do the best we can to keep peace in the world. Letting a country, especially one that believes it is ok to kill anyone who stands in their way, take us over is not the way to peace.
 
I guess WE will have to read what Rome tells us about a JUST WAR? if war can be just!!
 
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, there are definite criteria for “legitimate defense by military force.”
“The damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave and certain.
All other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impratical or ineffective.
There must be serious prospects of success.
The use of arms must not produce evils and disorders greater than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
The evaluations of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgement of those who have responsibility for the common good.”
There’s a whole lot more to this, but it would take up too much space, here, to quote any more. I would recommend reading it for yourselves.
 
Bayley said:
The use of arms must not produce evils and disorders greater than the evil to be eliminated.
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Here is where I beleive there to be a problem with the use of nuclear weapons, which are unlike any other.
 
I agree!!! now how do we get rid of nukes worldwide? in a nuke strike we or they push a button and see the problem solved,unlike the war we are in now, where we see the results when family &friends come home dead or maimed!!!there has got to be a better way.but i don’t know how to get world leaders to see it .
 
well everybody I have been doing research on JWs not on what they teach, But about them and thier kingdom halls. And I think BIBLE STEVE duped us!!! From what I researched I am pretty sure he is not a JW or he was a JW or they have disfellowshiped him and he needs people to fellowship with ie:us . fool me once shame on you , fool me twice shame on me. So STEVE whats the answer?
 
celticcrusader said:
well everybody I have been doing research on JWs not on what they teach, But about them and thier kingdom halls. And I think BIBLE STEVE duped us!!! From what I researched I am pretty sure he is not a JW or he was a JW or they have disfellowshiped him and he needs people to fellowship with ie:us . fool me once shame on you , fool me twice shame on me. So STEVE whats the answer?
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Sorry CelticCrusader,

You’re wrong on every account. I am one of JW’s (have been for almost 30 years). I’ve never been disfellowshipped and am a “member in good standing”.

So, how many “shames” is that on you? 🙂
 
has the JWs changed thier stand on letting members read material not approved by them?
 
another thing, talking to a JW guy I know , discussing you he thinks you are treding on dangerous ground. his opinion] but I tell him so is he talking to me]
 
celticcrusader said:
has the JWs changed thier stand on letting members read material not approved by them?
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The leadership of the WT has never put themselves in the position of “approving” what members read. The Catholic Church in the past has kept a list like that, but the WT has never done so.

They have advised for members to be cautious about who we"associate" with with in person, in what we read, and in what we watch. Which is wise given 1 Cor 15:33 “Bad Associatiation spoils useful habits”.

As for my participation in this forum, my interest and intent is to enjoy Bible based discussions with others who understand the Bible differently than me.

In the door-to-door ministry, I generally don’t find anyone with any level of Bible knowledge and the vast majority haven’t read the Bible or aren’t interested in talking about the Bible.

So, there is an appeal for me to go online and talk to others about the Bible.

The problem with doing this in a public forum is that it’s almost impossible to have a civil discussion. Any thread I participate in is quickly overrun with anti-JW hecklers, either former members who quit, those who were put out of our congregation, or those who want to squash JW theology by copy/pasting the anti-JW diatribe they’ve found on the Internet. And, usually, they have never really double-checked that anti-JW stuff for accuracy, checking it against the original sources, etc. (Which I have).

So, the net of all this, is that I’m not planning on actively participating in this forum much more. I’ll post an occasional answer or a link to information that is being discussed. But, I’m pretty much just going to let the Catholics here just continue on expressing their ill-feelings about JW’s on their own. I’ll learn about Catholics and their beliefs by simply watching and reading.

As much as I’d love to have civil discussion with others of the Catholic faith, I’m not interested in being called names and being insulted as some idiot.

If you pull up any of my initial posts (there’s 700), you’ll see I’ve done an extreme amount of homework studying the Bible and all aspects of multiple religious groups, including everything ever written against JW’s.

At this point, I will just continue having my various Bible discussions by private email and PM…

If you ever have a question that’s polite and respectful, please don’t hesitate to contact me by PM. I’m glad to provide my email to any who want to have polite conversation.

Steve
 
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