two JWs at my door today.

[Jaypeeto4]

Hmmm, now how can we identify who is and who isn’t Catholic before shooting at them? We are ALL brothers and sisters in Christ and we must always remember that. However, when our goverment feels it necessary for us to go to war, and the reason is just, we must do the best we can to keep peace in the world. Letting a country, especially one that believes it is ok to kill anyone who stands in their way, take us over is not the way to peace.

I understand you, but I’m not talking about asking individual soldiers on the battlefield if they are Catholics or not.
Let me give you an example.
Nazi Germany.
The Church OPPOSED Nazi Germany, and some Catholics refused to serve in the Nazi Army and some of them were martyred. They did the right thing.
Others served in the army of this evil and wicked regime
— just obeying orders — and knew that there were many Catholics in the militaries and peoples of the nations they were attacking and invading. When you know that you have a wicked, evil government like Hitler’s government, REFUSE FOR THE GLORY OF GOD AND THE LOVE OF YOUR BROTHERS IN THE COVENANT FAITH TO SERVE IN THE EVIL REGIME’S ARMY. Like I said, quite a good number of German Catholics refused to serve in the Nazi armies. Others DID serve.
And they knew, for example, that POLAND which they invaded was a Catholic country. How could their Catholic consciences allow them to do such a thing??
I really believe that in cases like this, it is better to suffer even martyrdom rather than sin against Christ by participating in an attack on your covenant brothers simply to “follow orders.”
Catholics who believe, for example, that this war in Iraq is UNjust, should refuse to serve in it, even if it means military prison.
Stick to our principles. God will be pleased with us for it.
Now, of COURSE, if an evil hostile power invades your country to butcher and subjugate your people, and your country is the innocent victim, you SHOULD defend your nation.
But no Catholic or Christian of any background, should serve in the Army of an evil regime, even if it means arrest and imprisonment. We answer to a Greater King, Jesus Christ.
God bless,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[bobzills]

But no Catholic or Christian of any background, should serve in the Army of an evil regime, even if it means arrest and imprisonment.

Who determines whether or not the regime is evil. Most regimes have a mixture of good and bad to some extent.

 

[celticcrusader]

The leadership of the WT has never put themselves in the position of “approving” what members read. The Catholic Church in the past has kept a list like that, but the WT has never done so.

They have advised for members to be cautious about who we"associate" with with in person, in what we read, and in what we watch. Which is wise given 1 Cor 15:33 “Bad Associatiation spoils useful habits”.

As for my participation in this forum, my interest and intent is to enjoy Bible based discussions with others who understand the Bible differently than me.

In the door-to-door ministry, I generally don’t find anyone with any level of Bible knowledge and the vast majority haven’t read the Bible or aren’t interested in talking about the Bible.

So, there is an appeal for me to go online and talk to others about the Bible.

The problem with doing this in a public forum is that it’s almost impossible to have a civil discussion. Any thread I participate in is quickly overrun with anti-JW hecklers, either former members who quit, those who were put out of our congregation, or those who want to squash JW theology by copy/pasting the anti-JW diatribe they’ve found on the Internet. And, usually, they have never really double-checked that anti-JW stuff for accuracy, checking it against the original sources, etc. (Which I have).

So, the net of all this, is that I’m not planning on actively participating in this forum much more. I’ll post an occasional answer or a link to information that is being discussed. But, I’m pretty much just going to let the Catholics here just continue on expressing their ill-feelings about JW’s on their own. I’ll learn about Catholics and their beliefs by simply watching and reading.

As much as I’d love to have civil discussion with others of the Catholic faith, I’m not interested in being called names and being insulted as some idiot.

If you pull up any of my initial posts (there’s 700), you’ll see I’ve done an extreme amount of homework studying the Bible and all aspects of multiple religious groups, including everything ever written against JW’s.

At this point, I will just continue having my various Bible discussions by private email and PM…

If you ever have a question that’s polite and respectful, please don’t hesitate to contact me by PM. I’m glad to provide my email to any who want to have polite conversation.

Steve

BIBLE STEVE: I went back and did read some of your posts [not all 700] you do make some good points in your posts according to the bible you use. but one of the problems is we are not all on the same page!! now regarding my previous posts, I don’t know you . I am very wary of posts because you don’t know who is posting. whereas if I talk to my JW friends I can see them, I know they are for real. if they or I don’t have an answer we get back to each other with what we found out. now with that said, without having the whole truth its hard for JWs to come to a logical conclusion. if you have always been taught that 2+2=5 and you truly believe this and the rest of us believe 2+2=4 . where do we start the discussion?

 

[bobzills]

BIBLE STEVE: I went back and did read some of your posts [not all 700] you do make some good points in your posts according to the bible you use. but one of the problems is we are not all on the same page!! now regarding my previous posts, I don’t know you . I am very wary of posts because you don’t know who is posting. whereas if I talk to my JW friends I can see them, I know they are for real. if they or I don’t have an answer we get back to each other with what we found out. now with that said, without having the whole truth its hard for JWs to come to a logical conclusion. if you have always been taught that 2+2=5 and you truly believe this and the rest of us believe 2+2=4 . where do we start the discussion?

Saying JW believe that 2+2 = 5, while everyone else believes that 2+2 = 4 is prejudging the argument.
Let’s take a look at one of the beliefs of the JW: As I understand it to be, (now I don;t say that I am correct in this, but I think it is true):
War is wrong and it is not permitted for a JW to serve in war or to join the armed forces.
watchtower.org/e/20040101/article_02.htm

Persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses in Nazi Germany - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Now let us take a look at the Catholic belief (once again, I could be wrong in this):
Catholics may serve in a “just war”.
I think that it is wrong to characterise the statement: War is wrong and it is not permitted for a JW to serve in war or to join the armed forces. as 2+2=5, and to characterise the statement:Catholics may serve in a “just war”.
as 2+2=4.
First of all, can there really be a just nuclear war. More or less, be definition, nuclear war is unjust. And the USA today holds and enormous number of nuclear weapons, but all the while saying that no one else should have them, at least those who do not have them already. But a nuclear war will be a horrible war, there will be no justice, innocent people will suffer and be killed, and anyway, doesn;t this happen in war, that all too many innocent people will suffer horribly?
Suppose that everyone were to declare his refusal to join in any war, then would that not lead to the greatest and most wonderful epoch of peace in the world? Why push for war? Why not push instead for peace and harmony and good will to exist on earth, instead of war. Why do people go around implying that to be for peace is like being for the proposition that 2+2 = 5?

 

[celticcrusader]

I wasn’t talking about war. I was talking about every thing . theology, bibles, historyand I guess we could throw war in there to i suppose. I really didn’t want to focus on war just or not] because there are to many different opinions& feelings.

 

[mschrank]

I think fire extinguishers work pretty well on JWs.

 

[Bayley]

I think fire extinguishers work pretty well on JWs.

Was that really necessary?

 

[dawgfan]

I think fire extinguishers work pretty well on JWs.

That is absolutely a rude and offensive thing to say!

There are some people here that have family that are trapped in this cult and pray that when they go out that they meet someone who can be a good influence to them and help plant seeds of doubt.

Smart-aleks that say or do idiotic things do not help.

 

[st_julie]

I think fire extinguishers work pretty well on JWs.

I see you recognize their fiery zeal.

 

[sodak]

Suppose that everyone were to declare his refusal to join in any war, then would that not lead to the greatest and most wonderful epoch of peace in the world? Why push for war? Why not push instead for peace and harmony and good will to exist on earth, instead of war. Why do people go around implying that to be for peace is like being for the proposition that 2+2 = 5?

Because people like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc., will only be deterred by force. They will take what they want until someone strong enough opposes them. They won’t be reasoned with, strong language doesn’t work either. Monsters exist, and we have to deal with them.

You start linking arms and singing Kumbayah, and you better get ready for mass slaughter of innocents. The latest estimates that I’ve seen for old Mao was on the order of 30 million starved under his “peaceful” regime.

Sometimes a strong military and war pave the way for greater peace. Look throughout history. Peace begins with victory. You might wish it were otherwise, but it’s not. Generally, the military are the ones who pray for peace the most, which makes sense if you think about it.

 

[DustinsDad]

…At this point, I will just continue having my various Bible discussions by private email and PM…

Woah - he’s back! Sort of. Since I see you are still monitoring this thread, and since you have chosen weeks ago to end our private email discussion, I’ll reiterate my unanswered questions from this threadt to you once again:

• Are the names of the 144,000 in the Lamb’s book of life?
• Are the names of the Great Multitude in the Lamb’s book of life?
• If one’s name is not in the Lamb’s book of life, where do they go?
• If one’s name is in the Lamb’s book of life, where do they go?
• Do you love God with your whole heart, soul and mind?
• Does God love you?
• If you love someone, ultimately don’t you want to be with that someone?
• **Do you want to be with God forever? **
• Does God what you to be with Him forever?
  DustinsDad

 

[celticcrusader]

BIBLE STEVE is around .how could he walk away from us? we may abuse him a bit , but anybody here is fair game. some of us make rude posts , but you can’t take it to personal or it will make you crazy!!! some times I see Steve over at Non Catholic Religions threads. So maybe if we tell STEVE there is no malice intended he will come back.