Two Million Americans May Be Forced to Seek Work As Extended Jobless Benefits Run Out

[j1akey]

I know for a fact my company would hire/pay more if it paid less in taxes.

Doesn’t matter how much cash my boss is sitting on, if demand drops he’s going to need it.

Letting the tax breaks expire for the wealthiest 2% of the country would affect about 3% of small businesses. Basically partners at law firms and financial institutions. Your typical incorporated business won’t have higher taxes on the business.

It isn’t about “protecting” small business like the republicans are talking about. It’s about letting their campaign contributors keep that extra 80,000 dollars a year.

The upper class tax hike would still only affect income of individuals income above and beyond the first $250,000. Anything under that is still taxed at the lower rate if the middle class tax cuts stay in place so everyone still gets to keep some sort of tax cut.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Letting the tax breaks expire for the wealthiest 2% of the country would affect about 3% of small businesses. Basically partners at law firms and financial institutions. Your typical incorporated business won’t have higher taxes on the business.

Next.

The typical “C” corporations won’t have higher taxes on the business, that’s true. But small businesses are rarely “C” corporations. That’s a “big business” model. Most small businesses are either “S” corporations or LLCs. Some are family limited partnerships. All of those pay taxes on the business income as if it was their personal disposable income, whether it really is or not.

I don’t doubt that a lot of law firms will pay more taxes under the Obama tax hike, but not many financial institutions will, because most of them are “C” corporations. Few of them are “S” corporations and I doubt banking LLCs are even allowed.

But virtually every small business person, and pretty nearly all the farmers and ranchers I know, are either “S” corporations or LLCs. It isn’t at all strange for a farmer, rancher or small business to have an income over $200,000 or $250,000 in the case of married propietors. That’s the money farmers, ranchers and business people pay the principal portion of their debt with. Know how much it takes to buy even a 500 acre farm in most places now? North of a million dollars. Yes, the interest is deductible, but the principal repayments aren’t. Know what it takes to build the now typical 8 house poultry farm? Nearly two million, and that’s not counting the land or the well. Every penny of that two million has to be earned by the farmer, and every penny of it is subject to the income tax. It takes a big cash flow to pay for things like that. I know a guy who has a small manufacturing concern. He does okay, but he’s not rich. His investment in plant and equipment is north of five million, and he has to pay income tax on every bit of that five million as he pays it off.

I don’t believe this assertion that Obamatax will affect only 3% of small businesses. Many times I have heard the number 40%, and I am far more inclined to believe that than 3%, which seems to be a recent claim. Besides, “income” isn’t “wealth”, and I’m not sure these apologists for Obamatax aren’t comparing apples to oranges. The income tax does not affect actual “wealth”.

What I do know is this. I know a lot of small business people. And they’ll all tell you they aren’t hiring because of their fear of what this radical government will do to them next. Healthcare, tax increases, increases in the cost of energy, new regulations. Why would they hire anybody when they don’t even know they’ll be able to pay their mortgage when the wild spending results in interest rates of 20% in just a few years? The ones I know are using their money to pay down debt before it becomes impossible to do it. Sure, maybe the big corporations are sitting on cash, but I can assure you small businesses aren’t. They’re deleveraging as fast as they can, because they have no faith in the future under these social engineers.

And that’s why we have high unemployment as far as the eye can see.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I see that the unemployment rate in November ticked up to 9.8%. “Change you can believe in…”

 

[qui_est_ce]

I see that the unemployment rate in November ticked up to 9.8%. “Change you can believe in…”

I happened to be listening to NPR before the numbers came out this morning. Their experts were speculating over 135,000 jobs “created.”

Time for change we can believe in.

Obamanomics doesn’t work.

 

[zz912]

Letting the tax breaks expire for the wealthiest 2% of the country would affect about 3% of small businesses. Basically partners at law firms and financial institutions. Your typical incorporated business won’t have higher taxes on the business.

It isn’t about “protecting” small business like the republicans are talking about. It’s about letting their campaign contributors keep that extra 80,000 dollars a year.

The upper class tax hike would still only affect income of individuals income above and beyond the first $250,000. Anything under that is still taxed at the lower rate if the middle class tax cuts stay in place so everyone still gets to keep some sort of tax cut.

This is a very ignorant post. You really DON’T know what you’re talking about. Don’t just re-spout talking points.

I’ll help you a little. A lot of the businesses included in that info are side jobs and home projects that people do for fun or a little extra cash, or a wife doing a side business while she stays at home. These are not companies that employ people and not traditional “businesses”.

Secondly, there are a lot of businesses that are owned by people who own other companies. Let’s take a physician for example who makes $300k from his practice. Additionally he owns 5-10 other companies or part ownership that he has invested in with all those evil profits from his practice. Now those 10 other companies don’t make that much money, maybe $10-50k each. But for ALL those companies, the income is taxed at the highest rate b/c the physician already is in the highest bracket. But in your 3% calculation, they don’t count those 10 companies b/c they all make less than $50k in profit. But that isn’t a correct calculation. It is intentionally false and gladly pushed by the Democrats.

Wake up to how you are being lied to.

 

[mellowcalico]

I appreciate what you’re saying.

Funny thing is that around here, it is still hard as heck to find people to work.

I am not hiring right now, but a friend of mine down in Herndon VA is. He had a job fair to fill about 20 slots he had for a new contract a couple of weeks ago. He only had 12 people show up for that job fair. And, yes, he did advertise it appropriately.

On the Washington Post jobs site there were 169 network administrator jobs posted today alone. Tons for business development. Tons for registered nurse. Tons for marketing.

Maybe it would be appropriate to look at relocation. That’s what happened a lot during the Great Depression. Maybe it’s time to look into that again.

I kind of get depressed because I apply for all kinds of jobs and never hear back at all (I am not yet unemployed, but will be laid off at the end of the year. So I’ve been looking for about a month now). But I shifted my focus and started applying for marketing jobs (I am very loosely qualified) and now I am getting interviews! I guess I need to change my skill set. I am really good at learning on the job too, so I am not worried about that. Moving is out of the question though, I need to be near my family to help me out so I “can” work (watching my daughter on school holidays, if she is sick, etc) plus it would take my daughter away from her father (or maybe reopen child custody).

I am taking the first job offered to me that is reasonable (meaning it pays me a wage I can live on and support my daughter). Chances are I will have to take less money than I make now, but hey, it’s better than nothing.

But I have to agree with posters… I am being forced to seek work. But not because of the government, but because I am hitting the pavement and forcing myself to do it (although it’s more of a “want” to be honest… I “want” to have a job). I suspect a lot of unemployed people are doing the same. The headline the news media is offensive… like we wouldn’t look for work unless the government made us.

 

[3DOCTORS]

I sometimes wonder how much of this is regional and whether extension of benefits delays population shifts.

I understand employment is fairly good in Texas, Oklahoma and some of the northern prairie states. Doubtless there are other places. Apparently it’s not very good in Nevada, Michigan and other places.

Failure to extend benefits might not do anything good at all, and might be harmful. But if there are simply places where the work is either not coming back or is going to be a long time in coming back, one wonders whether failure to extend might be the impetus to cause people to move to where work is more plentiful. Possibly there are economic shifts going on that really can’t be fixed without people moving.

Can you say “outsourcing”? I think we’d need to see bunches of folks move to India or China to reclaim these jobs. Meanwhile, too, if China ever decided to declare war on us, and they have most of our manufacturing, it ain’t gonna be like it was in WWII. We’ll be in a heap 'o trouble.

 

[3DOCTORS]

I sometimes wonder how much of this is regional and whether extension of benefits delays population shifts.

I understand employment is fairly good in Texas, Oklahoma and some of the northern prairie states. Doubtless there are other places. Apparently it’s not very good in Nevada, Michigan and other places.

Failure to extend benefits might not do anything good at all, and might be harmful. But if there are simply places where the work is either not coming back or is going to be a long time in coming back, one wonders whether failure to extend might be the impetus to cause people to move to where work is more plentiful. Possibly there are economic shifts going on that really can’t be fixed without people moving.

Can you say “outsourcing”? I think we’d need to see bunches of folks move to India or China to reclaim these jobs. Meanwhile, too, if China ever decided to declare war on us, and they have most of our manufacturing, it ain’t gonna be like it was in WWII. We’ll be in a heap 'o trouble.

 

[markomalley]

Can you say “outsourcing”? I think we’d need to see bunches of folks move to India or China to reclaim these jobs. Meanwhile, too, if China ever decided to declare war on us, and they have most of our manufacturing, it ain’t gonna be like it was in WWII. We’ll be in a heap 'o trouble.

Talk to people in Greenville/Spartanburg SC about outsourcing. The BMW factory there ships vehicles all over the world.

(There might be a lesson there for those who consider it)

 

[Ridgerunner]

Can you say “outsourcing”? I think we’d need to see bunches of folks move to India or China to reclaim these jobs. Meanwhile, too, if China ever decided to declare war on us, and they have most of our manufacturing, it ain’t gonna be like it was in WWII. We’ll be in a heap 'o trouble.

I think there’s “outsourcing” and “outsourcing”. A nationally-known company relocated its entire business here from elsewhere to get away from unions (though they denied that ) and some really oppressive laws and regulations in another state. It’s true, too, that the cost of living here is lower than where they came from. Energy too. I don’t think every company wants to move to India, and it’s not practical for many. But they are going to go to the places where conditions are best.

There really is a difference in unemployment from place to place in this country. I don’t much doubt that some of these people who have been on unemployment for a year and more, really can’t find jobs where they are. It’s hard for people to pick up and move. But some ought to think about that, because some of these regional employment shifts might be very long in duration or even permanent. If you live in Michigan, you might not want to move to Texas, and particularly not to some small or medium-size town in Texas. But if that’s where the work is.

Some “outsourcing” is only a shift of another kind. My own business is fundamentally an “outsource” business. We do work for banks on a fee basis more cheaply than they can hire their own people to do it. So, in effect, we’re the hiring entity and they’re not, even though we’re doing their work. One of the reasons is that their regulations impede them from integrating functions as smoothly as we can do it. Theoretically, they could do what we do electronically from India, but they actually can’t because what we do takes too much “people” interaction and ad hoc decisions that require too much knowledge of how things work in America, American expression of concepts, who’s who and where things are. Some things really can’t be exported.

 

[Toplink_pin]

“Originally Posted by Ridgerunner
I sometimes wonder how much of this is regional and whether extension of benefits delays population shift”

I think there is a lot of truth to this. Different regions of the country have different types of industry. Up here in NYS (Albany area in particular) we were rather immune to the “recession”, mainly because the major employer was the state (state work, government jobs). There’s not that much heavy industry/manufacturing here anymore, so unemployment didn’t change much. If you don’t make anything in the first place, then there’s no loss!

Big talk though by new gov (and old gov) about state worker layoffs in the near future however. Which is interesting because it’s a Democrat State, full of unions, run by a Democrat governor. We’ll see if the new guv really takes on the unions. Slashing government jobs, throwing more people into the unemployed category, in a state that is fairly anti-business to begin with, is not a good scenario. There are not enough private sector jobs to absorb the wave of unemployed state workers.

 

[3DOCTORS]

I think there’s “outsourcing” and “outsourcing”. A nationally-known company relocated its entire business here from elsewhere to get away from unions (though they denied that ) and some really oppressive laws and regulations in another state. It’s true, too, that the cost of living here is lower than where they came from. Energy too. I don’t think every company wants to move to India, and it’s not practical for many. But they are going to go to the places where conditions are best.

There really is a difference in unemployment from place to place in this country. I don’t much doubt that some of these people who have been on unemployment for a year and more, really can’t find jobs where they are. It’s hard for people to pick up and move. But some ought to think about that, because some of these regional employment shifts might be very long in duration or even permanent. If you live in Michigan, you might not want to move to Texas, and particularly not to some small or medium-size town in Texas. But if that’s where the work is.

Some “outsourcing” is only a shift of another kind. My own business is fundamentally an “outsource” business. We do work for banks on a fee basis more cheaply than they can hire their own people to do it. So, in effect, we’re the hiring entity and they’re not, even though we’re doing their work. One of the reasons is that their regulations impede them from integrating functions as smoothly as we can do it. Theoretically, they could do what we do electronically from India, but they actually can’t because what we do takes too much “people” interaction and ad hoc decisions that require too much knowledge of how things work in America, American expression of concepts, who’s who and where things are. Some things really can’t be exported.

Many overseas workers endure unbelievably unjust working conditions, sometimes including sweatshop hours, pay equivalent to pennies a day, sometimes child labor, and so on. Maybe we have too many regulations but some of these places have NONE for exposure to toxins and other dangers. All so we can have our cheap goods. And yes, I’ve bought the cheap goods myself, and felt guilty about it. I try to minimize it (which isn’t hard when you have much less money).

The service industries that outsource domestically make it harder on the workers to know what they are getting into. They make the job application process unnecessarily complex and centralized, a person can’t go into the location of a business near where they live and apply to work there a lot of the time; they have to be willing to commute or move but they don’t get paid enough to do so, and they often have to be willing to be on call 24/7 and be switched around all kinds of crazy hours, sent here and there - it may work for some but it doesn’t for lots of people.

You’re spot on about some things requiring people who know American language and culture, but that doesn’t explain how come I hear so many foreign accents on the phone to various customer service departments.

 

[markomalley]

Many overseas workers endure unbelievably unjust working conditions, sometimes including sweatshop hours, pay equivalent to pennies a day, sometimes child labor, and so on. Maybe we have too many regulations but some of these places have NONE for exposure to toxins and other dangers. All so we can have our cheap goods. And yes, I’ve bought the cheap goods myself, and felt guilty about it. I try to minimize it (which isn’t hard when you have much less money).

I used to live in Turkey. There was a lot of urbanization (people moving from the country to the city for jobs) there. The conditions that a lot of those people had to endure was appalling. But for all of that, I’ve lived in the country there, as well (at a Mountaintop radio relay site). And the conditions in the country are worse.

We could go ahead and insist upon American style regulation and American style wages for these folks. That would be a laudable goal, in all seriousness. But then their costs would go up and the prices they charge would go up. And then, if for no other reason but to save transportation costs, manufacturers would likely insource back to the States…it’s cheaper to transport within the States than to transport from China and then across the States. Corporations are not immoral. They are amoral. They are going to do what makes the most economic sense for their bottom line.

And then what would happen to these people? They would go from having a lousy, dangerous job to having no job at all. Then what?

Sure, there is a balance. But where does one find that balance?

 

[BobCatholic]

No you don’t. You just have to fill out that form at the end of each week and check the box that says you are!

And when they audit you, then what? Oh yeah, payback time.

 

[BobCatholic]

how can one be forced to work if there are no jobs?

We have a federal government that allows six tons of H1B visa holders to take high paying American jobs while at the same time allowing millions of illegal aliens to steal lower paying jobs.

The US government hates the US worker and puts the squeeze on them.