Two questions about Adam and Eve

[grannymh]

1. Were Adam and Eve Catholic?
2. Did Adam and Eve’s descendants include the names Joseph and Mary?

 

[lao_tzu]

1. Were Adam and Eve Catholic?
2. Did Adam and Eve’s descendants include the names Joseph and Mary?

Hello granny,

It’s been quite a spell since I posted one of your threads, and I hope you’ve been doing well.

While the existence of a y-chromosomal Adam and a mitochondrial Eve are mathematically certain, it’s almost inconceivable that they ever met, or had children together. Outside these gender line inheritances, there’s no hope of finding a single breeding pair, male and female, of us all, given what we know of population genetics. The human species has seen bottlenecks, but none that brought our total numbers below the thousands.

“Adam and Eve” is a spiritual concept, not a physical reality. Adam and Eve are thus not the physical ancestors, but the spiritual ancestors of humanity, as held by a larger body of religious adherents than merely the Christians or the Abrahamic faiths altogether, and in that sense, Adam and Eve aren’t merely Catholic, but as catholic as they come.

Certainly Joseph and Mary could be counted among their spiritual descendants, but perhaps only in the catholic sense. Were Joseph and Mary Catholic? I suspect not.

As ever, Jesse

 

[triumphguy]

1. Were Adam and Eve Catholic?
2. Did Adam and Eve’s descendants include the names Joseph and Mary?

I’ve got some more:

• What language did they speak?
• Could they read and write?
• Did they only learn to use tools AFTER being expelled from the garden (because now life was hard)?
• Did they have kids before they were expelled, or was having kids a consequence of being expelled?
• Could they feel pain in the garden, or again did they feel pain only as a result of being expelled?

 

[Gorgias]

Not really sure where you’re going with these, but…

1. Were Adam and Eve Catholic?

Implicitly, yes. Explicitly, of course not.

1. Did Adam and Eve’s descendants include the names Joseph and Mary?

That’s an odd phrasing. Are you asking simply whether the parents of Jesus are descendants of the first humans? Of course…!

 

[Neofight]

1. Were Adam and Eve Catholic?
2. Did Adam and Eve’s descendants include the names Joseph and Mary?

1. No. There was no Church yet.
2. Yes. All of the human race descended fro Adam and Eve (Tobit 8:6).

 

[Neofight]

I’ve got some more:

• Could they feel pain in the garden, or again did they feel pain only as a result of being expelled?

Pain is a consequence of mortality, and for man, mortality (death)was a consequence of sin. So, before the fall, man did not know pain, because up to that point he was immortal.

 

[Cecilia73]

Pain is a consequence of mortality, and for man, mortality (death)was a consequence of sin. So, before the fall, man did not know pain, because up to that point he was immortal.

I’m really not sure about the immortal part because of this verse:

Genesis 3:21-23: "The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them. Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

That verse implies that they were, in fact, mortal…at least in the flesh…which would make sense in our very physical world. Otherwise, we’d run out of room.

Perhaps the “death” God referred to upon disobedience was not physical death but spiritual death – the loss of heaven – which is what Jesus came to save us from.

 

[Neofight]

I’m really not sure about the immortal part because of this verse:

Genesis 3:21-23: "The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them. Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "

That verse implies that they were, in fact, mortal…at least in the flesh…which would make sense in our very physical world. Otherwise, we’d run out of room.

Perhaps the “death” God referred to upon disobedience was not physical death but spiritual death – the loss of heaven – which is what Jesus came to save us from.

Perhaps, but the Church Fathers, including Doctors of the Church have spoken definitively on this (specifically Augustin), so I’ll go with that, until I get a more definite answer to this mystery on the last day.

 

[GEddie]

Immortal implies “unable to die.”

A&E subsequently died, so in the strict sense, they were never immortal.

As to pain, certainly their bodies had pain receptors, being standard-issue human bodies. Whether they experienced pain would be an open question. Certainly nothing was in Eden to directly cause them pain. But if either of them overstretched their brand-new muscles, or looked directly into the sun, etc, it stands to reason they would have felt pain.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[GEddie]

Probably no tools until afterward.

Comfortably nude = no need for fabric. Perfect climate = no need for shelter. Etc.

Therefore no need to “make” anything.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[GEddie]

No reference to children until after expelled.

ICZC NIKA

 

[captainrick]

These questions are relevant only if one takes the account of Adam and Eve literally.

But of course, every human was descended from the first humans.
And, no one could be Catholic until the time of Jesus.

 

[Kelt]

Pain is a consequence of mortality, and for man, mortality (death)was a consequence of sin. So, before the fall, man did not know pain, because up to that point he was immortal.

If they couldn’t feel pain how would they avoid damaging themselves?

 

[Neofight]

If they couldn’t feel pain how would they avoid damaging themselves?

The answer lies in that The garden was paradise, just as heaven will be. If we are in heaven with resurrected bodies we will feel no pain, nor damage ourselves, why would it have been a possibility in the garden!

 

[GEddie]

The answer lies in that The garden was paradise, just as heaven will be. If we are in heaven with resurrected bodies we will feel no pain, nor damage ourselves, why would it have been a possibility in the garden!

In our pneumatikon soma, we will likely have no pain receptors, because no need for them.

Presumably the nerve endings now used for such will be redesigned for touch sensation, movement, (in the head) smell, etc.

However, we know A&E had pain receptors because their bodies were the same biologically as our own, and we have them.

It’s impossible to move around in an earthen body and earthly environment without triggering the pain receptors occasionally.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[TimothyH]

These questions are relevant only if one takes the account of Adam and Eve literally.

But of course, every human was descended from the first humans.
And, no one could be Catholic until the time of Jesus.

Adam and Eve are two literal, actual, real persons. That is Catholic Dogma, revealed to us by God and requires the assent of faith.

-Tim-

 

[Kelt]

The answer lies in that The garden was paradise, just as heaven will be. If we are in heaven with resurrected bodies we will feel no pain, nor damage ourselves, why would it have been a possibility in the garden!

You can’t be human tho’ without pain…how would they know when they’re cut themselves or broken something when they tripped over? If they weren’t human, why did they need bodies?

 

[GEddie]

You can’t be human tho’ without pain…how would they know when they’re cut themselves or broken something when they tripped over? If they weren’t human, why did they need bodies?

They were human, had to be, as the progenitized us human beings.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Kelt]

They were human, had to be, as the progenitized us human beings.

ICXC NIKA

Then they must have felt pain, or they would have damaged their bodies without knowing - you don’t know if something’s wrong if you can’t feel it. Think of the damage you’d do to a broken limb or burned skin if you couldn’t feel anything!

 

[GEddie]

Then they must have felt pain, or they would have damaged their bodies without knowing - you don’t know if something’s wrong if you can’t feel it. Think of the damage you’d do to a broken limb or burned skin if you couldn’t feel anything!

We are on the same page.

They had the same genes as our bodies, so they had pain receptors.

And I for one don’t believe they never stubbed their toes or got a crick in their necks while in Eden.

ICXC NIKA.