Two questions about Mary...

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kenmiller said:
Understand 100% about love for Mary , But as other Catholics on here have experienced sometimes this becomes adoration of Mary and far too much emphasis - the conflict needs to be avoided by being cognizant of the potential problem
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It would never happen because Mary,God’s most perfect creature,is meek and humble of heart.Mary is all about leading us to a closer relationship with her Son.
I have a neat story that I have shared on the forum before.
We have a beautiful Adoration Chapel at my parish
To the left of the entrance into the chapel is a beautiful stained glass image of our Blessed Morher,head bent in prayer.Directly across from this stained glass image,inside the chapel,is a window depicting Christ in the Garden of Olives.
A parish member photographing the image of Mary to place on prayer cards,was surprised,when developing the picture,that the image of Christ had been reflected on Mary’s veil! This was not intended.So my reaction…see Mary REALLY is all about leading us to her Son;)
 
Jeanne_S said:
It would never happen because Mary,God’s most perfect creature,is meek and humble of heart.Mary is all about leading us to a closer relationship with her Son.
I have a neat story that I have shared on the forum before.
We have a beautiful Adoration Chapel at my parish
To the left of the entrance into the chapel is a beautiful stained glass image of our Blessed Morher,head bent in prayer.Directly across from this stained glass image,inside the chapel,is a window depicting Christ in the Garden of Olives.
A parish member photographing the image of Mary to place on prayer cards,was surprised,when developing the picture,that the image of Christ had been reflected on Mary’s veil! This was not intended.So my reaction…see Mary REALLY is all about leading us to her Son;)
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Great story ! But I have experienced along with other Catholics posting on here when the line was sometimes crossed upon adoration of Mary. Just need to be cognizant of the potential problem as I learned
 
cena said:
Priests (presbuteroi) are also known as “presbyters” or “elders.” In fact, the English term “priest” is simply a contraction of the Greek word presbuteros. They have the responsibility of teaching, governing, and providing the sacraments in a given congregation (1 Tim. 5:17; Jas. 5:14–15).

catholic.com/tracts/bishop-priest-and-deacon
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“Presbyters who preside well deserve double honor, especially those who toil in preaching ant teaching.” (1 Tim. 5:17)

There would not be a Catholic priesthood before the inclusion of Hebrews in the Canon of Scripture around 100 A.D.
 
Here is what the Catechism says about the Immaculate Conception:

*The Immaculate Conception

490 To become the mother of the Savior, Mary "was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role."132 The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as “full of grace”.133 In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith to the announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God’s grace.

491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, “full of grace” through God,134 was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:

The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.135
492 The “splendor of an entirely unique holiness” by which Mary is “enriched from the first instant of her conception” comes wholly from Christ: she is “redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son”.136 The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person “in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places” and chose her “in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love”.137

493 The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God “the All-Holy” (Panagia), and celebrate her as “free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature”.138 By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.*

And the Pope is Peter’s successor on Earth – he is Christ’s representative, not Christ himself, or there would be no need for a Second Coming of Our Savior.
 
Thomas_White said:
“Presbyters who preside well deserve double honor, especially those who toil in preaching ant teaching.” (1 Tim. 5:17)

There would not be a Catholic priesthood before the inclusion of Hebrews in the Canon of Scripture around 100 A.D.
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Eh? The priesthood was instituted by Christ at the Last Supper when he ordained twelve bishops. Perhaps you are trying to say that the presbyteral ministry and episcopal ministry were not well-defined until some time later. This is true. The three ranks of Holy Orders did not spring fully-formed into existence. However, the priesthood was sacramentally instituted by Christ the High Priest and His own example.
 
Elizium23 said:
Eh? The priesthood was instituted by Christ at the Last Supper when he ordained twelve bishops. Perhaps you are trying to say that the presbyteral ministry and episcopal ministry were not well-defined until some time later. This is true. The three ranks of Holy Orders did not spring fully-formed into existence. However, the priesthood was sacramentally instituted by Christ the High Priest and His own example.
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I simply provided the correct passage from Tim. 5:17. It is plain and clear. I refer you again to Hebrews. It became Scripture in approximately 100 A.D. and provides the basis for the priesthood. Paul’s primary theme was that Christianity was a community of equal believers.

Do you know who Melchizedek was and why his name is mentioned in the Liturgy of the Mass? It is the basis for the institution of the priesthood in approximately 100 A.D.
 
felsguy said:
I have encountered individuals personally, including a couple in my current circle of acquaintenances, whose approach to Marian devotion at least as they express it is contary to the position of the Church.
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How did they express it? What did they say that is contrary to Church teachings?
felsguy said:
And with regard to statements by various saints, canonization identifies individuals as role models and intercessors worthy of veneration because of their virtuous and/or heroic lives but not necessarily as great theologians.
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Good to know there are better theologians posting here at CAF than those theologically illiterate Doctors of the Church!

Peace, Mark
 
kenmiller said:
Understand 100% about love for Mary , But as other Catholics on here have experienced sometimes this becomes adoration of Mary and far too much emphasis - the conflict needs to be avoided by being cognizant of the potential problem
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Not really. You are searching for a problem that does not exist. If someone is “over zealous” Jesus understands that person’s need for maternal love. The Church’s teaching remains constant. I am certainly not going to tell a elderly friend who has lost a child, a grandchild and her husband in a very short period of time that she must be “cognizant” of the “potential problem” as she turns to Mary for comfort. That is just plain stupid.

And how in the world can a person judge as to when another soul has loved Mary to much?
 
HelenRose said:
Not really. You are searching for a problem that does not exist. If someone is “over zealous” Jesus understands that person’s need for maternal love. The Church’s teaching remains constant. I am certainly not going to tell a elderly friend who has lost a child, a grandchild and her husband in a very short period of time that she must be “cognizant” of the “potential problem” as she turns to Mary for comfort. That is just plain stupid.

And how in the world can a person judge as to when another soul has loved Mary to much?
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Exactly the point! thank-you.
 
HelenRose said:
Not really. You are searching for a problem that does not exist. If someone is “over zealous” Jesus understands that person’s need for maternal love. The Church’s teaching remains constant. I am certainly not going to tell a elderly friend who has lost a child, a grandchild and her husband in a very short period of time that she must be “cognizant” of the “potential problem” as she turns to Mary for comfort. That is just plain stupid.

And how in the world can a person judge as to when another soul has loved Mary to much?
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Agree! We can never love Mary too much.Loving her pleases Jesus.
 
Jeanne_S said:
Agree! We can never love Mary too much.Loving her pleases Jesus.
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Absolutely. I thank Jesus for His Mother. I feel sorry for those who are unable, through disbelief, to know the love His has given us through Her. He has given us so much and so many people just let this love go. I don’t understand that at all.
 
Elizium23 said:
Eh? The priesthood was instituted by Christ at the Last Supper when he ordained twelve bishops.
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I cannot find where this occurs in the Gospels according to Mark, Matthew, Luke or John. Could you perhaps provide the citation?

Christ does say to His loyal Apostles that will share again with him the bread and wine He has consecrated but also that He will not eat the bread or drink the wine again before His kingdom is established. In Hebrews, it is Christ who is identified as priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.
 
Mark121359 said:
How did they express it? What did they say that is contrary to Church teachings?
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Attributing to Mary qualities or characteristics which belong only to God is contrary to Catholic teaching. It may well be that you have never encountered anyone who does this but I have on occasion. And doing so with the best of intentions, the greatest love for and devotion to our Blessed Mother still does not make it correct.

This Is what I mean by overzealous. It’s not a question of loving Mary too much; it’s a question of misunderstanding this most wonderful person and the exalted role in His Church that her Divine Son has given her.

Furthermore I believe that an inaccurate expression of any of our doctines can do harm in that it presents an unnecessary obstacle to those seeking the true faith. Some others also have tried to convey that in this thread but it has received a mixed reception at best.

In my involvement in RCIA I have often hear participants say they have come because of Catholics they know. I can’t help but wonder if there are others who have not come because of Catholics they know.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death
 
Thomas_White said:
I cannot find where this occurs in the Gospels according to Mark, Matthew, Luke or John. Could you perhaps provide the citation?

Christ does say to His loyal Apostles that will share again with him the bread and wine He has consecrated but also that He will not eat the bread or drink the wine again before His kingdom is established. In Hebrews, it is Christ who is identified as priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.
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Jesus told them to “Do this in memory of me”…It is a LIVING MEMORIAL! Jesus’ teaching in John 6
makes that clear. They were ordained priests at that time! (some followers left at that time, as they did not understand.) I thank and praise the Lord for the teaching authority He gave the Church.

There were many foreshadowings in the Old Testament “manna from heaven”, and the miracles of multiplication of food in the New Testament.
 
Dorothy said:
Jesus told them to “Do this in memory of me”…It is a LIVING MEMORIAL! Jesus’ teaching in John 6
makes that clear. They were ordained priests at that time! (some followers left at that time, as they did not understand.) I thank and praise the Lord for the teaching authority He gave the Church.

There were many foreshadowings in the Old Testament “manna from heaven”, and the miracles of multiplication of food in the New Testament.
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In John 6, there is the account of Christ’s washing His disciple’s feet. I am able to find the phrase “Do this in rememberednce of me” only in Luke 22. Christ Consecrates the bread and wine, and without question transubstantiation occurs. “And taking bread, he gave thanks and brake and gave to them, saying: 'This is my body, which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me.” (Luke 22:19) Christ then “in like manner” gives the chalice to his disciples.

And that’s it. It is difficult to see that this means Christ ordained His disciples as bishops. It would not be unreasonable to conclude that Christ gave His disciples the Consecrated blood and wine and told them to eat and drink of it in rememberance of his coming crucifixion–thus, a one-time event. It is far less clear that He thereby ordained his disciples.

Now, Saint Augustine had long been perhaps my favorite theologian to read. In the spirt of his “Confessions”, I will make my own. What I have intentionally done is present the basic argument that Garry Wills presents in his book “Why Priests”? I wanted to see how traditional Catholics might react to his notions concerning early Catholicism. And it does not mean I agree with a word of it.
 
This is the last I will say about this highly off-topic subject.

Introduction to the Priesthood Book
Fr. Hardon:
There is nothing, therefore, that more clearly distinguishes the Catholic Church from other religious bodies for twenty centuries than the priesthood. On Catholic terms, the priesthood was instituted by Christ at the Last Supper, when He ordained the Apostles as the first priests of Christianity. We can honestly say that the priesthood distinguishes the Catholic faith from all other religious bodies in the world. A priest is one whom Christ Himself has chosen to carry on His work until the end of time. The Catholic priest has the unique power of changing bread and wine into the living Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. The Catholic priest has the unique power of absolving sinners and reconciling them with an offended God.

The priesthood, therefore, is uniquely an institution that Christ Himself established when He ordained the Apostles on Holy Thursday night. Every priest in the Catholic Church traces his origin to that first ordination by Jesus at the Last Supper.
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Thomas_White said:
In John 6, there is the account of Christ’s washing His disciple’s feet. I am able to find the phrase “Do this in rememberednce of me” only in Luke 22. Christ Consecrates the bread and wine, and without question transubstantiation occurs. “And taking bread, he gave thanks and brake and gave to them, saying: 'This is my body, which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me.” (Luke 22:19) Christ then “in like manner” gives the chalice to his disciples.

And that’s it. It is difficult to see that this means Christ ordained His disciples as bishops. It would not be unreasonable to conclude that Christ gave His disciples the Consecrated blood and wine and told them to eat and drink of it in rememberance of his coming crucifixion–thus, a one-time event. It is far less clear that He thereby ordained his disciples.

Now, Saint Augustine had long been perhaps my favorite theologian to read. In the spirt of his “Confessions”, I will make my own. What I have intentionally done is present the basic argument that Garry Wills presents in his book “Why Priests”? I wanted to see how traditional Catholics might react to his notions concerning early Catholicism. And it does not mean I agree with a word of it.
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I should have been more specific regarding my reference to John 6. It is John 6: 43 to 59.

It is there that he tells us we need to eat His Body and Drink His Blood… At the last supper he ordains the priests.

Holy Mass is broken up in time and space so that we can enter in.
 
kenmiller said:
Understand 100% about love for Mary , But as other Catholics on here have experienced sometimes this becomes adoration of Mary and far too much emphasis - the conflict needs to be avoided by being cognizant of the potential problem
Click to expand...
“Never be afraid of loving the Blessed Virgin too much. You can never love her more than Jesus did.” --Saint Maximilian Kolbe
 
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