Two questions about Mary...

[KidCatholic1]

Okay I have a few questions about Mary mother of God:

1. Do Catholics give offerings to Mary? If so, isn’t all reserved to God?
2. Why do Catholics sing hymns to Mary when by definition a hymn is reserved for God?
   Mary and the pope are my biggest stumbling block… thank you!

Even as a Catholic, I do have doubts of how much we revere Mary. I will say this: over devotion to her may be a bad thing. We are not supposed to pray DIRECTLY to her, we ask her to intercede for us (we ask her to pray for us, not use “power” to help us). Again, singing a request for intercession is not worship. If you worship her, you commit idolatry (definitely not allowed in the Church). I hope the best for you. God bless!

 

[Jeanne_S]

Even as a Catholic, I do have doubts of how much we revere Mary. I will say this: over devotion to her may be a bad thing. We are not supposed to pray DIRECTLY to her, we ask her to intercede for us (we ask her to pray for us, not use “power” to help us). Again, singing a request for intercession is not worship. If you worship her, you commit idolatry (definitely not allowed in the Church). I hope the best for you. God bless!

We ask Mary to pray for and intercede for us.Our Lord will not deny his Mother any request.We see proof of this in the Wedding at Cana.Christ,performed his first miracle at his Mother’s request.I venture to say Our Blessed Mother is held in pretty high esteem in the eyes of her Son.Should we value her any less? I think not!

 

[Elizium23]

Even as a Catholic, I do have doubts of how much we revere Mary. I will say this: over devotion to her may be a bad thing. We are not supposed to pray DIRECTLY to her, we ask her to intercede for us (we ask her to pray for us, not use “power” to help us). Again, singing a request for intercession is not worship. If you worship her, you commit idolatry (definitely not allowed in the Church). I hope the best for you. God bless!

Yes we do pray directly to Mary, and the saints and angels.

 

[Thomas_White]

The Hail Holy Queen is one of my most favorite prayers. There is in the prayer the following:

"Turn then most gracious advocate,
"Thine eyes of mercy towards us.
"And after this, our exile,
“Show unto us the blessed fruit of they womb, Jesus.”

It is the words “most gracious advocate” that should, I think, settle this issue. And what follows these words should hardly be ignored.

 

[Thomas_White]

I should have been more specific regarding my reference to John 6. It is John 6: 43 to 59.

It is there that he tells us we need to eat His Body and Drink His Blood… At the last supper he ordains the priests.

Holy Mass is broken up in time and space so that we can enter in.

Thank you. Yours is the most germain reply. This will also be my last comment on this issue. With all due respect to everyone here, I will note that the issue arose from my comment addressed specifically to the OP. It is further noted my comment was the last one on this thread that was a reply to the OP.

While considering responses to the off-topic replies to my comment, I thought of the Gary Wills book entitled “Why Priests?” Garry Wills is not a trivial person, and his argument is formidable. I intentionally used his thesis to see if his argument could be refuted. I deliberately sought a Scriptual citation for any rebuttal.

It is not that I agree with Wills. I don’t. That’s it.

 

[Dorothy]

Thank you. Yours is the most germain reply. This will also be my last comment on this issue. With all due respect to everyone here, I will note that the issue arose from my comment addressed specifically to the OP. It is further noted my comment was the last one on this thread that was a reply to the OP.

While considering responses to the off-topic replies to my comment, I thought of the Gary Wills book entitled “Why Priests?” Garry Wills is not a trivial person, and his argument is formidable. I intentionally used his thesis to see if his argument could be refuted. I deliberately sought a Scriptual citation for any rebuttal.

It is not that I agree with Wills. I don’t. That’s it.

Thomas White,

Thank you for your patience and for your explanation above. I am relieved to hear that you do not agree with Gary Wills.

If you are interested you may want to take a look at this article from Crisis magazine:
crisismagazine.com/2013/the-strange-world-of-garry-wills

May our Lord Jesus Christ lead all of us on our spiritual journey to Him.

Peace!

Dorothy

 

[Thomas_White]

Thomas White,

Thank you for your patience and fo r your explanation above. I am relieved to hear that you do not agree with Gary Wills.

If you are interested you may want to take a look at this article from Crisis magazine:
crisismagazine.com/2013/the-strange-world-of-garry-wills

May our Lord Jesus Christ lead all of us on our spiritual journey to Him.

Peace!

Dorothy

Thank you very much for the link. I read the article. I was a 'cradle Catholic", am now a Catholic and will always be a Catholic. While I don’t pretend to understand all there is to know, that I am a Catholic shall never change.

While reading the article about Wills, which provided much more than I knew about him, I was reminded of what I once heard a Catholic priest, whom I much respected, say during his homily. He was a learned man, a monk and very spiritual. This is what he said: “if your spiritual belief differs much from the teachings of the Church, and your beliefs are deep and sincere, then so be it. But there is a point where you should stop referring to yourself as Roman Catholic.”

Sorry if this strays again from the topic, but I needed to say it.

 

[Dorothy]

Thomas White,

Have a blessed and holy New Year!

 

[KidCatholic1]

Yes we do pray directly to Mary, and the saints and angels.

I mean to clarify: we do not pray to her so we can receive “divine intervention” from her. She must ask God to do that. My mistake.

 

[lovepeacemercy]

Why do Catholics worship Mary, Saints, or even Angels when there a creation of God Himself?
Why do I find Idols or images of Mary, all the time in church?
Catholic seem to worship Mary, Saints , and Angels more than God.
I’m confused please help.
Romans 1:25
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Exodus 20:4-5
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,

 

[lovepeacemercy]

Why do Catholics worship Mary, Saints, or even Angels when there a creation of God Himself?
Why do I find Idols or images of Mary, all the time in church?
Catholic seem to worship Mary, Saints , and Angels more than God.
I’m confused please help.
Romans 1:25
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Exodus 20:4-5
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me

 

[Jeanne_S]

I have photos of my loved ones on display in my home.I even ask thrm to pray for me and my intentions.How is this any different then having pictures or statues of Our Mother Mary or any of the other saints on display.I love them too and I ask them to pray for me and my intentions too.

 

[lovepeacemercy]

Read Exodus 20:4-5
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,

 

[YADA]

Read Exodus 20:4-5
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,

and did you read any of the responses to your cherry picked passage that appear earlier in this thread? … this is one passage -

What of the passage - quoted earlier - where … during the exodus and after the golden calf fiasco when the people were sickened … they [Moses and Aaron] were instructed to carve serpents and raise them up for the people to gaze upon while kneeling and the people were healed. Are serpents something that is “in the earth”?

What of the Cherubim that were instructed to be carved into the Ark of the Covenant forming the Mercy Seat? Are not Cherubim “in heaven above”?

What of the Bulls that are found in Soloman’s Temple - are they not “in the earth”?

I am not sure about the God you worship but I worship One God - The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit … Jesus is the God of the living and not the dead … I belong to the Communion of Saints … I pray [pray means simply to ask] for Mary and those other Saints in heaven to place my needs before our Lord … the scriptures tell us that they present our prayers to Jesus as bowls of incense …

To pray - for non-Catholics - has become synonymous with worship … however, that is not the original nor only meaning of the word … in fact it is still used in its original context by our legal system in addition its use by Catholics … Judges are referred to as “You Honor” and even “Your Worship” especially in countries that still have a monarchy. When you go before the court you 'Pray" for redress with your “Pleadings”

If a non-Catholic kneels in prayer with Bible in hand - and I have personally done this and witnessed this - are they worshipping the Book? … I am sure you would say “No” … I can assure you I was not worshipping the book. I do serve Christ though - to the best of my abilities

 

[Randy_Carson]

I simply provided the correct passage from Tim. 5:17. It is plain and clear. I refer you again to Hebrews. It became Scripture in approximately 100 A.D. and provides the basis for the priesthood. Paul’s primary theme was that Christianity was a community of equal believers.

Thomas-

To be technically accurate, the Letter to Timothy was inspired in its writing. It "was scripture’ from the moment Paul (or his scribe) put his quill to the parchment.

Do you know who Melchizedek was and why his name is mentioned in the Liturgy of the Mass? It is the basis for the institution of the priesthood in approximately 100 A.D.

I do. However, I suspect you are not suggesting that there was no Eucharist prior to AD 100. That would make Paul’s instructions to the Corinthians a bit odd, yes?

So, There were Apostles, then Deacons, then Bishops (their successors) and finally Priests (who assist the Bishops) in the Early Church.

Way before AD 100.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Why do Catholics worship Mary, Saints, or even Angels when there a creation of God Himself?

Let’s address one question at a time. It’s too easy to lose our train of thought when you ask 10 questions in one post, okay?

We do not worship Mary or other saints. We talk to them because they are still alive. Jesus said, “He is not God of the dead, but of the living.” So, if the saints are alive, we can talk to them as ask for their prayers just as you might talk to your pastor and ask him to pray for you about an important decision you are facing.

Make sense?

Now, remember: Worship is reserved for God alone, but not all prayer is worship - even when speaking to God. You can give thanks (that’s not worship) or you can pray for a friend (that’s intercession) or you can ask God questions about scripture that you’re reading (that’s not worship, either). So, not all prayer is worship.

Similarly, then, prayer (or talking) to a saint can be intercession for a friend or even asking them to pray for you, but it is NOT worship. Catholics only worship God - same as you.

Hope this helps.

 

[Thomas_White]

Thomas-

To be technically accurate, the Letter to Timothy was inspired in its writing. It "was scripture’ from the moment Paul (or his scribe) put his quill to the parchment.

I do. However, I suspect you are not suggesting that there was no Eucharist prior to AD 100. That would make Paul’s instructions to the Corinthians a bit odd, yes?

So, There were Apostles, then Deacons, then Bishops (their successors) and finally Priests (who assist the Bishops) in the Early Church.

Way before AD 100.

Randy–

I know the Letter to Timothy was inspired from its onset, but when 1 Timothy 5:17 was composed was not the issue. A reply to a comment I made said that Timothy 5:17 provided that presbyters “have the responsibility of teaching, governing and providing the sacraments in a given congregation.” This is simply not what the verse says, so I provided the verse verbatim (Douay-Rheims). That’s all. I explained in a later comment why I did so. You might first read the comment. It is in the thread.

 

[lovepeacemercy]

Thanks for the answers. I will personally only Pray to God , not Mary or saints,etc.
You taught me a lot and I learned from it, but I will walk my faith, not sight . I don’t need a image reminding what Christ did for me on that cross. I will always give My Savior Jesus Christ all the Glory and Honor , he deserves. He will always be on my heart. God loves you as much as me and the worst sinner on the planet, he died for. What I learned is we worshiped God in a different way, I never pray to anybody else that isn’t God. I Read the same bible as you. Go to Church. Try my best obey God. But still, there something different between us. Yes, I do believe Christ is the Son of the living God. May God Bless you, sorry if I offended anybody, just want to know what you guys believe in.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Read Exodus 20:4-5
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,

Yes.

However, do you do any of that?

You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me

A likeness could include pictures, sculptures, digital photos, really anything. As to bowing and serving the image - no Catholics do that, seems like a Hindu or pagan practice that is forbidden to Catholics. If anything, Catholics bow to the person represented - similar to standing for the US flag since it represents the USA, or the President’s representative or a king, etc - never serving them, as pagans feed and wash their statues. No Catholics hate the Lord their God.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Thanks for the answers. I will personally only Pray to God , not Mary or saints,etc.

That is up to you, but I personally wouldn’t recognize a family member and their presence, then ignore them completely.

You taught me a lot and I learned from it, but I will walk my faith, not sight

I’m not sure what that red highlighted portion means. No one’s asking you to not walk by faith or go with sight, just to go with an informed faith.

I don’t need a image reminding what Christ did for me on that cross.

You already have one, at least one carved in your mind.

I will always give My Savior Jesus Christ all the Glory and Honor , he deserves. He will always be on my heart. God loves you as much as me and the worst sinner on the planet, he died for.

Amen. When our Lord acts through members of His church, he deserves that recognition as well.

What I learned is we worshiped God in a different way, I never pray to anybody else that isn’t God.

Do you ever ask someone to pray for you? If so, you’ve prayed (requested) that someone pray for you.

I Read the same bible as you.

Oh, you have the full 73 Book Bible?

Go to Church. Try my best obey God. But still, there something different between us. Yes, I do believe Christ is the Son of the living God. May God Bless you, sorry if I offended anybody, just want to know what you guys believe in.

God bless you. No offense taken or meant to be given. Happy New Year, and have a blessed continued feast of the Nativity of our Lord God and Savior.