Two thoughts on hell from Bishop Barron

[angel12]

Jesus warned against hell.

He never warned against hoping people don’t go there.

 

[Crusader13]

“Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
Matthew 7:13-14

This passage alone is enough to dispense with the idea that we should have a reasonable hope that all will be saved and hell could be empty.

I don’t understand the belief that Balthasar proposes. It seems to be an illogical premise given passages like the one above. I think some people want to believe this empty hell/all might be saved idea, merely because the Church hasn’t declared who is in hell. As if that claim substantiates the other.

It’s not easy to admit, but it sounds like hell is going to be the final destination for many as opposed to the few who find heaven.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

“It has even been proposed that heaven and hell are the same “place”, but inhabited by people of entirely opposite dispositions.”

I didn’t read through all the comments in this thread but this from Bishop Barron’s is something I have never heard in Catholic theology before.

Heaven and hell are the same place???

and

we must accept the possibility of hell

Jesus spoke of hell as a wide path that many will take, a place where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. He also spoke of the lake of fire.

And what about Our Lady of Fatima haven given the children a vision of hell?

I used to be a fan of Bishop Barron but lately he has said some confusing things that don’t seem to line up with the Traditions of the Church.

 

[CelticWarlord]

Heaven and hell are the same place?

Well, as must be often pointed out, they aren’t “places” at all. They are not physical destinations as we picture them which can be spatially located somewhere “out there”.

I can easily see the idea which has been presented. The Church does not teach that hell is a destination replete with torturous demons prodding us with pitch forks and roasting us over fiery pits. Sadly, some members continue to imagine just that. What the possibility of the quote you reproduced represents to me is that the vastness of the universe is going to be inhabited by all of us, some who embrace the love of God, and some who wish to be removed from it. Without the foibles of the human psyche dominating our spiritual existence there will be no danger, no influence, and no need for a literal banishment. They choose another way, which will be banishment in itself. Much like the person who attends a dinner but interacts with no one.

The quote from Barron’s book is not a part of Catholic theology, it’s just another viewpoint which the good Bishop cites as an example of what is possible since we cannot define the non-physical world with much certainty. I like to explore all variations of ideas regarding the after life and this passage stood out.

 

[goout]

“Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
Matthew 7:13-14

So in your opinion that passage must determine a quantity of people that are going to hell?
Do you believe the majority of Church thought backs that reading?

 

[goout]

Here is a short bit on Mt 7:13-14

How to Interpret Matthew 7:13-14

Matthew 7:13-14 gives us the words of Our Lord in the Sermon on the Mount: “Enter in at the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that l...

www.catholic.com

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I can easily see the idea which has been presented. The Church does not teach that hell is a destination replete with torturous demons prodding us with pitch forks and roasting us over fiery pits.

the vastness of the universe is going to be inhabited by all of us, some who embrace the love of God, and some who wish to be removed from it.

Okay remembering your comments are your opinions and not Catholic teaching.

What the Early Church Believed: Hell | Catholic Answers Tract

On July 13, 1917, Our Lady of Fatima Showed a Vision of Hell and Taught Us How to Avoid It

On July 13, 1917, Our Lady gave several specific directives that, if we heeded, the world would not be in the situation it finds itself today.

www.ncregister.com

 

[tafan2]

I think it is a logical theology to hope that any given person repented before death. And it seems to me that if for each element of a given set is true, then it is logical that it is true for the entire set. So it its logical to hope for any specific person, then we are in effect hoping for all.

 

[tafan2]

I’ll tell you this. If people are not in hell, then I dont want any part of an unjust heaven… so, where would I go?

Careful here, you might be a little close to being one of those workers who worked the whole day and complained about people who showed up at the end of the day getting the same pay. If Hitler ends up in heaven, it is because he repented at the last moment and chose God. Is there anything unjust about that?

 

[Hoosier-Daddy]

I think this is where we can find common ground. The Words “specific person” are important. It is logical and theological to hope for the salvation of a single person. Any person. The Church names people in heaven. But not hell. And that is an extension of Jesus. In the story if the rich man and Lazarus the “saved” is named and the damned is not. And that us what God wants us to focus on. But to say… there was no rich man is so theologically incomprehensible to me.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I think it is a logical theology to hope that any given person repented before death.

We can pray for those who have died and hope that in their last seconds they repented but for some people it would have to be just that, a very last second contrition and repentance. Take for instance someone while on a killing spree shot and killed in action by police.

I also used to work with those dying in hospitals and I will say there are times when you are here one minute moving, living, breathing, talking and then gone the next, extremely quick.

 

[Hoosier-Daddy]

Lol and what would my punishment be? Certainly not hell. Lol!

 

[Crusader13]

So in your opinion that passage must determine a quantity of people that are going to hell?
Do you believe the majority of Church thought backs that reading?

Not a given quantity, as in an actual number. However, it does elude to how fewer in number are those who find heaven vs those who don’t.

I believe that the Church through her history supports the teaching of striving for the narrow gate and emphasizing the need for the Church and Jesus, in hopes of obtaining salvation. Regardless of what the majority of Church thought reflects today.

 

[tafan2]

No doubt, but I think it was Bishop Sheen who I heard say that one can hope that a person who committed suicide repented between the time he pulled the trigger and the bullet entered his brain. Nothing is impossible with God ( and time is relative ).

 

[tafan2]

Not if you repented. If you were obstinate about not wanting that pay because it was also paid to those who came late in the day, then it would be. But I would continue to hope you were not obstinate

 

[Hoosier-Daddy]

It’s so fruitless to dwell on if evil people repented and others didn’t.
I choose to accept that hell is a just and holy solution. I choose to believe what God said about it. And I choose to side with justice in an unjust world. Mercy is Holy, but mercy that ignores justice is not mercy at all.

 

[Hoosier-Daddy]

What if I dont repent? I think very few do.

 

[Genesis315]

There is a logic to the possibility of all being saved–God does offer all the means of salvation and (antecedently) desires all to be saved. Therefore it is certainly possible for all to be saved. Likewise, the Church is missionary in order to seek to save each and every soul.

However, we also have the predictive words of Christ, such as “Many are called, few are chosen”, etc. In other words, not all who are called (and, in fact, all are called) are chosen.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

No doubt, but I think it was Bishop Sheen who I heard say that one can hope that a person who committed suicide repented between the time he pulled the trigger and the bullet entered his brain. Nothing is impossible with God ( and time is relative ).

I do agree that it is possible and it more than likely happens, but I do not hold the belief that it happens to everyone, which is why we are asked to pray for others, including the deceased…

Personally, I think a lot of this “everyone is saved, no one goes to hell” is part of what Jesus talked about when He said there will be those attempting to enter through a wide path.

 

[Weserthy]

“Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
Matthew 7:13-14

Yes, if anything the argument that more people end up in hell than heaven is a much stronger argument than “hell is empty”. I think this is just a sign of the times and a consequence of sin, especially mortal sin, being deemphasized in today’s Church. People want to believe that everyone is going to heaven, or is more than likely going to heaven. When in fact the scriptures say the exact opposite. But it’s not popular or cool to say that people could be damned nowadays.