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jmcrae
Guest
What discussion would that be?
This thread started off being about someone who was talking about torture, so I don’t see how it can be “off-subject” or “a red herring.”
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This thread started off being about someone who was talking about torture, so I don’t see how it can be “off-subject” or “a red herring.”
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estesbob
Guest
Good point.What discussion would that be?
This thread started off being about someone who was talking about torture, so I don’t see how it can be “off-subject” or “a red herring.”
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leftistdestroye
Guest
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leftistdestroye
Guest
What he is saying, is that we should be hearing much more in society about ending abortion(50 million) as opposed to hearing sooooo much about 3 instances waterboarding in a time of war.
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jmcrae
Guest
We need to hear the truth about both. Remember, we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki for waterboarding one American soldier. We said, “This waterboarding incident proves that these people are barbarians, and do not have the right to exist, anymore.”
The Japanese were in a time of war, too, at that time, were they not?
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Della
Guest
What? Are you serious? This goes way beyond hyperbole into the insane. The horrors the Japanese perpetrated against millions is not at all comparable to waterboarding anyone. And do you have any idea of the horrors committed by Saddam Huissan’s regime? It’s like saying there’s is no difference between mortal and venial sin. Don’t let your zeal for your position lead you into absurdity. I don’t think torture is correct, either, but let’s keep it in the realm of reality here.We need to hear the truth about both. Remember, we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki for waterboarding one American soldier. We said, “This waterboarding incident proves that these people are barbarians, and do not have the right to exist, anymore.”
The Japanese were in a time of war, too, at that time, were they not?
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jmcrae
Guest
The reason for the bombing of Hiroshima - the “straw that broke the camel’s back” so to speak, was that the Japanese had waterboarded an American soldier.
Back in those days, waterboarding was an unforgivable sin, regardless of the provocation.
Waterboarding is extremely painful, by the way - what they do is fill the lungs with water by forcing high-speed hoses into the nose and mouth, then cause the person to vomit the water out, fill the lungs with water again using the high speed hoses, cause the person to vomit again, etc., until the person becomes disoriented from lack of oxygen to the brain.
It’s not just a matter of holding the person’s head under water until they agree to talk.
I am aware of the horrors of the Japanese, and of Saddam Hussein. We don’t get justice by becoming like them, though.
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estesbob
Guest
Nonsense. It is a liberal myth. They base this myth on a war crimes coinviction of a single japanese soldier who waterboarded a Chinese civilian. What they fail to tell you that his other crimes were rape, murder, and severely beating prisioners. Waterboaridng was a standard interogation technique among all those involved in the war.
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LRThunder
Guest
We did not nuke them for waterboarding one American soldier. We used the atomic bombs to prevent an invasion of Japan which would’ve killed **more **people, on both sides.We need to hear the truth about both. Remember, we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki for waterboarding one American soldier. We said, “This waterboarding incident proves that these people are barbarians, and do not have the right to exist, anymore.”
The Japanese were in a time of war, too, at that time, were they not?
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jmcrae
Guest
Yes, but the justification was that they were Pure Evil ™ (and not merely defending themselves) because they had waterboarded an American soldier.
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LRThunder
Guest
This is completely new. Where did you hear about this?
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estesbob
Guest
Lets make it a multiple choice quiz:
A, Democrat Underground
B. Daily Kos
C. Huffington Post
D. Truth. Org
E all of the above
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jmcrae
Guest
Actually, I was hearing it on the news in one of those “background to the news” documentary pieces.
So far, no one is disputing that waterboarding involves spraying high-speed water hoses into people’s lungs - do you really consider this an appropriate form of interrogation for civilized people?
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estesbob
Guest
Let’s not change the subject now. You claimed we bombed Hiroshima because the Japanese had water boarded a US Prisoner and that it was considered so evil no one else used it. You were asked to provide a cite. Now you want to talk about high speed hoses.
Actually I believe water boarding involved putting a sloth on ones face and pouring water on it to give them the feeling they are drowning. If we had a terrorist who knew the location of a nuclear bong about to go off in f NY city would you consider using this method of coercion that causes no physical harm?
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jmcrae
Guest
I don’t know what I would do under those circumstances - I would most likely be tempted to sin very gravely, and I doubt I’d be worried about causing harm, but I hope I wouldn’t tell people that I was giving them the precepts of civilization or “defending Democracy” (which would be long since out the door if it came to that), in so doing.
(My life and the life of my neighbors does not equal Democracy or civilization.)
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Dale_M
Guest
The poor sloth! Maybe PETA should get involved in this controversy.
okay, okay… CBS News described waterboarding:
cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/01/national/main3441363.shtml
High speed hoses could be used, but probably not to spray water into the lungs - that could very well cause physical damage (although, I guess, not visible).
BTW, I was going to make a comment that we have veered off-topic, but perhaps this line of discussion serves to point out the relevance of Dr. Miles’ speech.
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estesbob
Guest
As with most issues it more complex than any of would like to admit. I dont think waterboarding should be used routinely but I also dont think we can ban it in all cases.
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The_Barbarian
Guest
I beg your pardon?
Real barbarians do not waterboard. Burning, pillaging, maybe. But we do have standards.
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Della
Guest
Yes, I can just hear Truman and the Joint Chiefs sitting around trying to decide whether or not to use A-bombs on Japanese targets. At the very top of their list had to be the supposed waterboarding of one US soldier. Right. The Death March in the Philippines, the rape of China, the bombing of Pearl Harbor, the lies they told their own people causing thousands of them to commit mass suicide, their abominable treatment of all those they conquered, and on and on, had little to nothing to do with it. Please!
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jmcrae
Guest
My sincerest apologies, Sir.I beg your pardon?
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