U.S. Army lectured soldiers on dangers of ‘white privilege’

[Inisfallen]

I imagine you disclaim racial thinking and yet you seem to be saying because I am White, and many people in power are White, that I have power. I have power because other like me have power. If however I applied such logic to other groups I imagine I would be a racist.

Obviously it is true that lots of White men have authority. But I think a better guide to who or what group has power is to look at who you can’t insult. In Nazi Germany you couldn’t insult the Nazi Party or Hitler. In Soviet Russia you couldn’t insult communism or its leaders. In the US you can’t insult Blacks, Asians, Mexicans, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, women, homosexuals or transgendered people. But you can insult White people, men and Christians. Judged that way Whites certainly don’t have power. It is certainly odd that the men in authority don’t represent who has the power. But it is a reality.

I’m sorry, I just don’t see any logic in your post.

First, I’m not saying that you have power. I don’t know you. I know nothing about your situation in life. It is, however, undeniably true that the majority (by a large margin) of powerful positions in our society are held by white men. There’s no way around that fact.

Second, you can indeed insult black people, Asians, Mexicans, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, gay people and anyone else you feel like insulting all day long. You can get up in the morning and insult someone, walk out of your house ranting about the Jews, write insulting screeds on the internet, and do whatever else you feel like doing. There’s no law against it. There’s no legal penalty. What you seem to be saying is that if you go around insulting people (“Blacks, Asians, Mexicans, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, women, homosexuals or transgendered people”), people won’t like you anymore. And that’s not a rebuttal of anything I said. Frankly, it sounds childish and whiny.

Now, it’s true that a lot of people won’t like it, and won’t like you, and will counter your speech with their own speech, which may insult you. You may be ostracized. You may find yourself (not surprisingly) a social pariah. But there is no comparison between that and what would have happened if you’d insulted Hitler and the Nazi Party in Berlin in 1938 (or the King of Thailand in Bangkok today, for that matter). That comparison isn’t just ridiculous, it’s offensive.

To say that “It is certainly odd that the men in authority don’t represent who has the power. But it is a reality” is nonsensical. The men in authority are, by definition, who has the power.

 

[exnihilo]

I’m sorry, I just don’t see any logic in your post.

First, I’m not saying that you have power. I don’t know you. I know nothing about your situation in life. It is, however, undeniably true that the majority (by a large margin) of powerful positions in our society are held by white men. There’s no way around that fact.

Second, you can indeed insult black people, Asians, Mexicans, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, gay people and anyone else you feel like insulting all day long. You can get up in the morning and insult someone, walk out of your house ranting about the Jews, write insulting screeds on the internet, and do whatever else you feel like doing. There’s no law against it. There’s no legal penalty. What you seem to be saying is that if you go around insulting people (“Blacks, Asians, Mexicans, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, women, homosexuals or transgendered people”), people won’t like you anymore. And that’s not a rebuttal of anything I said. Frankly, it sounds childish and whiny.

Now, it’s true that a lot of people won’t like it, and won’t like you, and will counter your speech with their own speech, which may insult you. You may be ostracized. You may find yourself (not surprisingly) a social pariah. But there is no comparison between that and what would have happened if you’d insulted Hitler and the Nazi Party in Berlin in 1938 (or the King of Thailand in Bangkok today, for that matter). That comparison isn’t just ridiculous, it’s offensive.

To say that “It is certainly odd that the men in authority don’t represent who has the power. But it is a reality” is nonsensical. The men in authority are, by definition, who has the power.

You asserted that Whites can’t be oppressed because Whites hold most positions of authority. That doesn’t follow and is easily disproved. If a society was comprised solely of White people there could still be oppressed people in that society.

Obviously there is nothing prohibiting me from insulting these groups. Unless the punishment is cutting out your tongue you can’t be literally stopped. If you do insult these groups you won’t just be an outcast. You’ll face lawsuits and a loss of livelihood. If however you insult Whites, men or Christians you face no such threat.

The comparison is not ridiculous or offensive at all. I didn’t say the penalty was the same. You invented that to attack my statement. I think it is far more offensive to say as you did, ‘I just don’t see any logic in your post’.

 

[Inisfallen]

You asserted that Whites can’t be oppressed because Whites hold most positions of authority. That doesn’t follow and is easily disproved. If a society was comprised solely of White people there could still be oppressed people in that society.

I asserted no such thing. Please don’t make stuff up and attribute it to me.

Obviously there is nothing prohibiting me from insulting these groups. Unless the punishment is cutting out your tongue you can’t be literally stopped. If you do insult these groups you won’t just be an outcast. You’ll face lawsuits and a loss of livelihood. If however you insult Whites, men or Christians you face no such threat.

Lawsuits? Probably not, although it’s true that under our legal system, anyone can sue anyone for pretty much anything. Still, a suit with a cause of action that says “he called me a bad name” will pretty much be thrown out immediately. Now, if you’re someone’s boss, and you’re creating a hostile and intolerant environment in the workplace, that’s a different story. As it should be.

The comparison is not ridiculous or offensive at all. I didn’t say the penalty was the same. You invented that to attack my statement. I think it is far more offensive to say as you did, ‘I just don’t see any logic in your post’.

You said:

In the US you can’t insult Blacks, Asians, Mexicans, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, women, homosexuals or transgendered people. But you can insult White people, men and Christians.

That statement is untrue. It is factually untrue. You are wrong.

Anyway, do you really *want *to insult all those people?

 

[exnihilo]

I asserted no such thing. Please don’t make stuff up and attribute it to me.

You said:

Do you actually think that white people are oppressed in the United States?

Take a deep breath. Look around you. Look at the United States Senate. Look at the House of Representatives. Look at the CEOs and board members of just about every company in the Fortune 500.

This particular persecution fantasy is delusional.

I think I captured your argument well. If I did not then please explain what you mean other then White people can’t be oppressed because White people are in power.

Lawsuits? Probably not, although it’s true that under our legal system, anyone can sue anyone for pretty much anything. Still, a suit with a cause of action that says “he called me a bad name” will pretty much be thrown out immediately. Now, if you’re someone’s boss, and you’re creating a hostile and intolerant environment in the workplace, that’s a different story. As it should be.

Really? There are civil rights lawsuits all the time. There are hate crime laws for merely saying words.

If you are a boss isn’t a different story it is the same story. You may like the application of the law but the law does in fact say you can’t insult people.

That statement is untrue. It is factually untrue. You are wrong.

Well yes, in a strict sense. Just like it is factually untrue you can’t murder. Of course you can, but you’ll pay a price. But I clarified that in my previous post. I’m not sure why you want to go back to what I first said.

 

[ChristianDude]

If someone uses the slogan of an avowedly racist movement or group, they ought not to be surprised if people believe that they are themselves racist.

Until proven otherwise, I believe that anyone uses this slogan is a racist. Just like I assume that anyone wearing a Klan outfit is a racist, or reciting the “14 words” slogan is a racist (what do you think of that one, by the way? Is it possible that someone using that slogan is not a racist?).

Of course someone wearing a Klan outfit is going to be racist, and the 14 words slogan is obviously meant to be a slogan for white nationalism. But saying that “anti-racist” is another way of saying “anti-white”, again, it may be used by racist people but it’s not necessarily incorrect. Oftentimes when people claim to be fighting racism they focus primarily, if not exclusively, on racism by whites and not racism against them. The latter is often ignored or downplayed.

Also, going by your logic, I guess I ought to assume that the Black Lives Matter movement is made up of left-wing extremists; after all, they use the raised fist, which is employed by Marxists and anarchists.

 

[Inisfallen]

You said:

I think I captured your argument well. If I did not then please explain what you mean other then White people can’t be oppressed because White people are in power.

You didn’t capture my argument at all, let alone well. I did indeed say that white people (as a class, which was clear in context) are not oppressed in the United States. Both you and I could cite instances where ethnic white people have been oppressed in other places (the former Yugoslavia, Ireland, the old Soviet Union, others), by people who are also ethnically white. But in the United States, white people are not oppressed. I stand by this statement.

There are hate crime laws for merely saying words.

Cite?

If you are a boss isn’t a different story it is the same story. You may like the application of the law but the law does in fact say you can’t insult people.

Again, cite? To a law that says you can’t insult people, please.

The law does indeed provide remedies for those subjected to a hostile environment. Workplace protections aren’t the same thing as outlawing insulting speech.

 

[Sarcelle]

1. Income and social class aren’t the same thing.
2. So what? What’s your point? The fact that some African-Americans have achieved higher incomes proves nothing.

Yes it does. The fact that African Americans can earn high incomes proves that not all circumstances are against them. Try living as a member of the lowest caste in India. That is systemic oppression.

By the way, I’m not white so I have no dog in this fight.

 

[exnihilo]

You didn’t capture my argument at all, let alone well. I did indeed say that white people (as a class, which was clear in context) are not oppressed in the United States. Both you and I could cite instances where ethnic white people have been oppressed in other places (the former Yugoslavia, Ireland, the old Soviet Union, others), by people who are also ethnically white. But in the United States, white people are not oppressed. I stand by this statement.

OK, I didn’t capture your argument. So what is your argument? Please restate it. Is it the assertion that Whites aren’t oppressed in the United States? That isn’t an argument of course but just a statement. How does the fact that White people are in authority tie into your claim that White people aren’t oppressed in the United States?

Cite?

All of the Civil Rights laws

The law does indeed provide remedies for those subjected to a hostile environment. Workplace protections aren’t the same thing as outlawing insulting speech.

Right, a hostile environment can be insulting someone. Therefore such laws are outlawing speech. Laws against things outlaw the thing in question. That is the obvious, simple purpose of laws.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Of course someone wearing a Klan outfit is going to be racist, and the 14 words slogan is obviously meant to be a slogan for white nationalism. But saying that “anti-racist” is another way of saying “anti-white”, again, it may be used by racist people but it’s not necessarily incorrect. Oftentimes when people claim to be fighting racism they focus primarily, if not exclusively, on racism by whites and not racism against them. The latter is often ignored or downplayed.

It’s literally a White Nationalist slogan. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. Systematic racism against whites really isn’t an issue in the USA. Black people suffer from greater levels of poverty, underemployment, crime rates, etc. Besides, there really was nothing in that presentation that was degrading to white people.

 

[ucfengr]

Black people suffer from greater levels of poverty, underemployment, crime rates, etc. Besides, there really was nothing in that presentation that was degrading to white people.

Is it white people that are going into black neighborhoods and stealing their money, mugging their residents, and burning down black owned businesses? At some point, people are going to need to recognize that black people are responsible for the dysfunction in their neighborhoods, just as white people are responsible for the dysfunction in their communities. Talking about systemic racism takes responsibility away from people for the living of their lives.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

Is it white people that are going into black neighborhoods and stealing their money, mugging their residents, and burning down black owned businesses? At some point, people are going to need to recognize that black people are responsible for the dysfunction in their neighborhoods, just as white people are responsible for the dysfunction in their communities. Talking about systemic racism takes responsibility away from people for the living of their lives.

Why don’t you first give us a working definition of ‘white’ and ‘black’?

 

[Seamus_L]

Do white people who believe there’s no such thing as white privilege in America get equal time ? Or is that hate speech that’s not protected under free speech as we’ve been hearing lately at certain campaign rallies.

 

[urbana]

Why don’t you first give us a working definition of ‘white’ and ‘black’?

You are arguing that “white-privilege” exists. Why don’t you give us a working definition of “white”. If you cannot define “white” and “black”, than clearly white-privilege does not exist.

 

[ialsop]

I’m mixed, though I’m half white; I guess that means I should be somewhat worried.

Unlucky for you, you don’t get all the free jobs and cops only SOMETIMES let you free. I, being fully white, get ALL of that and I NEVER get tried in court for my illegal actions. Oh and I get any job I want. And get paid more than everybody else. Gotta love privilege.

LOL No seriously, the best thing would not to be worried at all. It DOES merit being worried, but, I hate being worried

 

[ialsop]

Well the problem is I’m half East Asian, which is the “model minority”, so I’m probably viewed as being just as privileged as a full white or full East Asian. Regardless, all of this is nonsense.

Ah I spoke too soon, hahaha, your even more privileged than I am. You get into every school too!!!

hehehe…all this really really IS nonsense…

 

[ialsop]

The truth of this story is shaky in that it comes from the right-wing “Judicial Watch” and the Washington Times.
But even if true, I can’t see the problem with it. White Americans do live in a privileged society compared to African-Americans. We need to see more of this.

True, there ARE racial differences…

…like…

If I get shot by a cop it’s not news. But if a black kid my age gets shot by a cop the whole town will avenge him…sigh…

 

[ialsop]

Seriously?

Do you actually think that white people are oppressed in the United States?

Take a deep breath. Look around you. Look at the United States Senate. Look at the House of Representatives. Look at the CEOs and board members of just about every company in the Fortune 500.

This particular persecution fantasy is delusional.

And the “anti-racist is a code word for anti-white” slogan may not exactly be “arbeit macht frei,” but it’s outright racist. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it.

And to couch one’s racism in weaselly, deniable words is cowardly.

Look what happens when a white kid gets shot vs a black kid.

Look what happens when people are advocates for minority groups as opposed to advocates for white groups? Why is there a difference there?

 

[ialsop]

**As a non-white person I disagree. **It may often be employed by racist people, but that doesn’t make it any less accurate. When people say they want more “diversity”, what they really mean is less white, straight, males. People who claim to be “anti-racist” hardly, if ever, mention crimes from minorities against whites, such as the murders of Christopher Newsom and Channon Christian, the Wichita Massacre, or the beating of Matthew Boorujuy. Of course to be fair, it’s not like they’ve likely heard of those incidents, because the media doesn’t want to report such occurrences since they are part of the same crowd; I guess it’s more comfortable to keep your head in the sand.

Just for emphasis. Read this again. It is a wise post.

 

[ialsop]

If someone uses the slogan of an avowedly racist movement or group, they ought not to be surprised if people believe that they are themselves racist.

Until proven otherwise, I believe that anyone uses this slogan is a racist. Just like I assume that anyone wearing a Klan outfit is a racist, or reciting the “14 words” slogan is a racist (what do you think of that one, by the way? Is it possible that someone using that slogan is not a racist?).

Oh believe me I am NOT surprised at all that you think that.

Until proven otherwise? LOL okay you can think what you like.

Explain why people react so differently to cops killing blacks and cops killing whites, maybe?

 

[ialsop]

I imagine you disclaim racial thinking and yet you seem to be saying because I am White, and many people in power are White, that I have power. I have power because other like me have power. If however I applied such logic to other groups I imagine I would be a racist.

Obviously it is true that lots of White men have authority. But I think a better guide to who or what group has power is to look at who you can’t insult. In Nazi Germany you couldn’t insult the Nazi Party or Hitler. In Soviet Russia you couldn’t insult communism or its leaders. In the US you can’t insult Blacks, Asians, Mexicans, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, women, homosexuals or transgendered people. But you can insult White people, men and Christians. Judged that way Whites certainly don’t have power. It is certainly odd that the men in authority don’t represent who has the power. But it is a reality.

To follow this analogy, you could insult Jews in Nazi Germany because they were in power, they were behind vicious rich banks and Zionist wars…OR SO PEOPLE THOUGHT. Same here. You can insult whites BECAUSE they have all the power, authority, are imperialists, higher class, ect…