U.S. Bishops Call for Prayers, Pledge to Work for Comprehensive Immigration Bill
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M
mexilad
Guest
My opinion as a Catholic born in the United states, whose family came here legally (And had ancestors in California when it was still part of Spain) is that we should enforce our existing immigration laws as they are written. We should go after the companies that knowingly employ illegal aliens. The blame for the families that are broken as a result of immigration enforcement belongs to the family members that broke the law in the first place. The immigration reform movement is an effort to form legal slavery. Some people are ok with people of my ethnic heritage doing their dirty work. They view the work and the people as being beneath them.
The aurgument that we can’t get all 12 million illegals out there is flawed in so many ways. First of all, when there is one case of mad cow disease in this country we can trace it to the cow, the farm and the stall the cow was kept in. That was one cow. How hard can it be to find a good chunk of 12 million people. We can not stop all the robbery that happens, so should we just stop nforcing laws about robbery?
Just my opinion.
The aurgument that we can’t get all 12 million illegals out there is flawed in so many ways. First of all, when there is one case of mad cow disease in this country we can trace it to the cow, the farm and the stall the cow was kept in. That was one cow. How hard can it be to find a good chunk of 12 million people. We can not stop all the robbery that happens, so should we just stop nforcing laws about robbery?
Just my opinion.
R
rlg94086
Guest
Hi mexilad,
I understand your sentiments that it should be doable to find 12 Million people and deport them, but consider that they represent 4.9% of our workforce - in some industries, they are 20% of the labor force. If US companies collectively fire 4.9% of our workers, we will probably go into a Depression. That would not be good for the country.
Pax,
Robert
I understand your sentiments that it should be doable to find 12 Million people and deport them, but consider that they represent 4.9% of our workforce - in some industries, they are 20% of the labor force. If US companies collectively fire 4.9% of our workers, we will probably go into a Depression. That would not be good for the country.
Pax,
Robert
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rlg94086
Guest
I would like to know what the “significant reservations” are. Somehow, I doubt it is border security. More than likely, the Bishops want the fees waived and/or more liberal immigration.
Regardless, prayers are always a good idea. The legislation does still need to be hammered out by both sides.
B
bones_IV
Guest
And you know what? Who stood by the American Life League’s side when they took on Planned Parenthood? It was Dr. Falwell and the Christian Coalition that helped them, NOT THE USCCB! Who stood by as an accompanist to Planned Parenthood while the ALL and other pro-lifers fought them head on. The USCCB needs to wake up. They’re more interested in what goes into the collection basket then fighting for human rights. I didn’t see the USCCB’s support when the ALL was petitioning the bishops of the U.S. to enact canon law 915. We only have 15 bishops that I know of that have done this. Why is that? The dialogue has failed abysmally.
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rlg94086
Guest
Please don’t add that kind of uncharitable rhetoric to your posts, in regards to the Bishops. It’s one thing to disagree with their stances and/or call on them to be stronger on some issues, but saying it’s all about the money is something usually reserved for an anti-Catholic poster.
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bones_IV
Guest
It’s just that I’m so frustrated. You can pray only so many rosaries and only do so much. Sometimes I wonder, how much longer Lord?
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mexilad
Guest
Are you tring to justify slavery? A possible depression being bad forthe country makes slavery legal? Maybe we should just take the people off of welfare and social programs that do not belong there and put them to work doing these jobs illegals do. Just an idea… I saay do the right thing and let the chips fall where they may.
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rlg94086
Guest
Slavery? No. What a crazy question. :whacky:
I support the bill being currently worked on to normalize these workers and completely reform our current broken immigration system. There are some flaws that I hope the legislators will work out, but letting the “chips fall where they may” is not a responsible thing to do.
The idea that you can just fire all of these people and replace them with people on welfare is absurd.
M
mexilad
Guest
On the contrary, I believe “Normalizing” slavery is absurb. Let’s call it like it is. The imigration system is broken. Iti s broken because we are not enforcing our existing laws. The repair is not to be done with more legislation but with enforcement.
It is racist to allow these people to break the law simply to provide a source of cheap labor. Is it that Mexiacan are good enough to cut our lawns and trim our hedges, but we do not expect them to go the legitimate route for citizenship or residency?
We should only let people into this country, from any other country, who want to be citizens. My family came here and were proud of becoming citizens. The lion’s share of these folks are not interested in legitimate citizenry, but are just working the system. Get them out.
The people on welfare who do not belong there are perfectly capable of working. Why support them if they will not work. That is what we did 50 to 60 years ago and it worked fine.
If we continue to go done the path we are going, this nation , as we know it, will disappear. I don’t know about you, but that is unacceptable for me.
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rlg94086
Guest
I know your rhetoric probably resonates with a lot of people, but you don’t have a workable solution to the problem.
The proposed legislation doesn’t “‘normalize’ slavery.” In fact, by requiring employers to use a legal process, pay a prevailing wage and show that they were not able to fill jobs outside of a “Z Visa” it eliminates a lot of current abuses.
By eliminating the employers’ current pass on verifying legal status, the new law will make the enforcement of employment of legal workers possible. Today, the employer is not able to question someone’s documents (ID and SSN) and if they are found to be employing someone with falsified documents, they can just say “I didn’t know they weren’t who they said they were.”
It fines those who are currently here illegally (fines are an accepted form of punishment for a violation of laws) and sets requirements to be eligible to stay in the country. It is expected that about 15% will not be eligible. Further fees are required to get on the path to citizenship, and they have to “get in line.” It also ends “catch-and-release” which is the current law.
For those who don’t want citizenship, they will have the option of working under a “Z Visa” and then going home.
If we don’t get immigration reform through a compromise bill (there is still time to address many concerns people have), then what we will have is the *status quo. *Then, you can continue to believe in your fantasy that if we just “enforce our existing laws,” we will solve the problem. Meanwhile, things will continue to get worse.
The proposed legislation doesn’t “‘normalize’ slavery.” In fact, by requiring employers to use a legal process, pay a prevailing wage and show that they were not able to fill jobs outside of a “Z Visa” it eliminates a lot of current abuses.
By eliminating the employers’ current pass on verifying legal status, the new law will make the enforcement of employment of legal workers possible. Today, the employer is not able to question someone’s documents (ID and SSN) and if they are found to be employing someone with falsified documents, they can just say “I didn’t know they weren’t who they said they were.”
It fines those who are currently here illegally (fines are an accepted form of punishment for a violation of laws) and sets requirements to be eligible to stay in the country. It is expected that about 15% will not be eligible. Further fees are required to get on the path to citizenship, and they have to “get in line.” It also ends “catch-and-release” which is the current law.
For those who don’t want citizenship, they will have the option of working under a “Z Visa” and then going home.
If we don’t get immigration reform through a compromise bill (there is still time to address many concerns people have), then what we will have is the *status quo. *Then, you can continue to believe in your fantasy that if we just “enforce our existing laws,” we will solve the problem. Meanwhile, things will continue to get worse.
M
meeshy
Guest
We cannot classify all labor performed by illegals as “slave labor.” It’s just a matter of demographics and I don’t think we should generalize.
In densely populated areas, of course there will be more poor people and fewer decent jobs. This holds true for both citizens and illegals. It also holds true in extremely rural areas such as the Appalachians.
I live in the South. We have lots of illegal immigrants here. Some work in home construction and make $15 per hour. Some work on road crews or building bridges and can make anywhere from $8 per hour to $18 per hour or more. Some are painters, making an average of $9 to $12 per hour.
Some work in restaurants and make the average restaurant worker pay. A lot of women I know clean houses and make a really decent living at it. Some clean hotels. Some work in landscaping and make the usual rate, about $7 to $9 per hour or more. Some own stores or restaurants and are quite successful.
Some work in the fields picking crops, but in this part of the country those are usually migrant workers brought in for the season; they don’t live here. Every May, the migrants come here to pick tomatoes, strawberries, beans, corn, and other crops, then they leave and go to the next location farther north. These are the people who earn the least, and have the worst working and living conditions.
These are the people who need our help the most. Unfortunately, our farming situation in this country is so out of order that most of the farmers truly cannot afford to pay a normal wage to get their fields harvested.
Until we fix some really broken situations here in the U.S., including the farm industry, I think we’ll continue to see the exploitation of certain illegal laborers and probably some legal laborers, too.
Peace,
Meeshy
In densely populated areas, of course there will be more poor people and fewer decent jobs. This holds true for both citizens and illegals. It also holds true in extremely rural areas such as the Appalachians.
I live in the South. We have lots of illegal immigrants here. Some work in home construction and make $15 per hour. Some work on road crews or building bridges and can make anywhere from $8 per hour to $18 per hour or more. Some are painters, making an average of $9 to $12 per hour.
Some work in restaurants and make the average restaurant worker pay. A lot of women I know clean houses and make a really decent living at it. Some clean hotels. Some work in landscaping and make the usual rate, about $7 to $9 per hour or more. Some own stores or restaurants and are quite successful.
Some work in the fields picking crops, but in this part of the country those are usually migrant workers brought in for the season; they don’t live here. Every May, the migrants come here to pick tomatoes, strawberries, beans, corn, and other crops, then they leave and go to the next location farther north. These are the people who earn the least, and have the worst working and living conditions.
These are the people who need our help the most. Unfortunately, our farming situation in this country is so out of order that most of the farmers truly cannot afford to pay a normal wage to get their fields harvested.
Until we fix some really broken situations here in the U.S., including the farm industry, I think we’ll continue to see the exploitation of certain illegal laborers and probably some legal laborers, too.
Peace,
Meeshy
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
Do the Bishops benefit from the cheap labor illegal immigration provides?
Diocese employing illegals to do janitorial and grounds keeping at cheap pay, without health benefits.
Jim
Diocese employing illegals to do janitorial and grounds keeping at cheap pay, without health benefits.
Jim
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rlg94086
Guest
I don’t understand what you are saying. Do you believe the Bishops only care about cheap labor for their own janitorial and grounds keeping?
It is obvious that comprehensive reform is needed for the country, and I certainly think it is consistent for our Bishops to be concerned about the plight of parishioners. I don’t agree with all of their statements on immigration, but it seems kind of crass to think they are calling on us to pray for selfish, financial reasons.
M
mexilad
Guest
First off, yes we can calli t slave labor. Further it is just plain wrong. The law is clear and employers as well as the illegals themselves are breaking that law.
The arguements I hear often times are so simular to the arguments given to abolistionist to answer why slavery should not be abolished.
Who will we get to do this work? Who will we get to do this work so cheap? My children who are born legally in this country get treated like second class citizens compared to illegals and their illegal children. They are getting free education and scholarships in some cases.
WHile I agree immigration law should be reformed, that does not mean the current law should be ignored. Further more, we shold not give amnesty to people who broke the law to get in this country. What other laws will they ignore? Also, we should not cheapen the meaning of American citizenship.
I agree that there are multiple complex problems in this country. This quick fix will not fix them and it will cause more problems and can lead to the destruction of our country as we know it.
B
bones_IV
Guest
Let me explain something to you. My reading of the situation is totally accurate. I will gladly join American Life League in persisting in our effort to get the Bishops to enforce Church law, in this case, Canon Law 915. Whatever the reason that the majority of Bishops are not publicly stating their desire to enforce this Canon law, the scandal that is being created by inaction is a sad reality. I think Jerry Falwell was a wonderful human being.
B
Beantown
Guest
My opinion is we do not need to work for comprehensive immigration bill . What we need is to ENFORCE
our current laws on illegal immigrants. The impression, I get from our American Bishops, is that they would reward illegal acts. Illegal = immoral = sinful, thus the bishops are praying for sin to be rewarded.
Also, I would like to point out that these laws of immigration are not directed only to Latinos but to every nationality in the world. My Dad was an immigrant, of which I have unending pride, but being a good Catholic he obeyed the laws of this Great Country of ours and came here as a legal immigrant and became a proud and hard working citizen off this land.
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rlg94086
Guest
Your “reading” was that the Bishops are taking this stance because they are most concerned with the collection baskets. That is an opinion (and a crass one IMO), not an "accurate reading.
in our effort to get the Bishops to enforce Church law, in this case, Canon Law 915. Whatever the reason that the majority of Bishops are not publicly stating their desire to enforce this Canon law, the scandal that is being created by inaction is a sad reality. I think Jerry Falwell was a wonderful human being.
Okay…two things here. Canon Law 915 has nothing to do with immigration. And, your admiration of Jerry Falwell has nothing to do with immigration or our Bishops. Why the non sequitors?
B
bones_IV
Guest
Your “reading” was that the Bishops are taking this stance because they are most concerned with the collection baskets. That is an opinion (and a crass one IMO), not an "accurate reading.
Okay…two things here. Canon Law 915 has nothing to do with immigration. And, your admiration of Jerry Falwell has nothing to do with immigration or our Bishops. Why the non sequitors?
Because their failure to enact canon law 915 scandalizes people. It is what it is.
R
rlg94086
Guest
And this has what to do with immigration? Nothing. Thus it belongs in a different thread.
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