U.S. Bishops praise passage of national housing trust fund

[Kendy]

I really hate it when the bishops support things like this. I think this is a terrible idea. I wish they would take a course in basic economics.

WASHINGTON DC, August 3, 2008–The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) praised a bi-partisan congressional effort to create a Housing Trust Fund they say will assist the lowest income households in the U.S. by aiding the construction and preservation of affordable rental housing.

cbcpnews.com/?q=node/4056

 

[ribozyme]

I really hate it when the bishops support things like this. I think this is a terrible idea. I wish they would take a course in basic economics.

WASHINGTON DC, August 3, 2008–The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) praised a bi-partisan congressional effort to create a Housing Trust Fund they say will assist the lowest income households in the U.S. by aiding the construction and preservation of affordable rental housing.

cbcpnews.com/?q=node/4056

So what is wrong with such a proposal?

But I suppose the recent decline in housing prices might have a positive effect.

 

[Christophorus72]

perhaps if the individuals who run banks and mortgage companies understood economics, there would not be an housing crisis.

 

[Kendy]

So what is wrong with such a proposal?

But I suppose the recent decline in housing prices might have a positive effect.

The housing crisis is a result of owners by more than they can afford (some of them are close family members), banks making loans to people who can’t afford them (like people who have not worked for years, aagain personal experience), and speculators investing and building more housing than there is demand. The rest of us should not have to pay for these decisions. There are natural consequences to these decisions and it’s not fair for the rest of us to have to pay for it; it’s a moral hazard. Plus, allowing prices to fall will bring them back to a natural equilibrium, which is necessary to a stable market.

As for “affordable housing” units, they are not necessary for stable families, they are breeding grounds for crime and disfunction.

Lastly, I don’t understand why the Bishops feel that it’s ok for the government to take your money to give it to other people. I also don’t understand why they take so much money from govt. as well— all it does is lead to oversight. They need to focus on gettng catholics to give more money to catholic charities, and less on tax payer money.

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

perhaps if the individuals who run banks and mortgage companies understood economics, there would not be an housing crisis.

They understood their short term gain, and they did not consider the long term costs. They should have be allowed to learn fom that experience.

 

[Dale_M]

"the article:

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) praised a bi-partisan congressional effort to create a Housing Trust Fund they say will assist the lowest income households in the U.S. by aiding the construction and preservation of affordable rental housing.

The fund was created by a provision in the Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008, which was signed into law by President George W. Bush on Wednesday.

It sounds as if the bishops didn’t get involved until after the fact. Does anyone know otherwise?

As for “affordable housing” units, they are not necessary for stable families, they are breeding grounds for crime and disfunction.

Hmmm?? How will this program create crime?

Edit:
It appears the bishops were in fact pushing for passage:
usccb.org/sdwp/aa-natl_affordable_housing_tf_legis.pdf
(they were rather quiet about it, though)

 

[Cuddy_Duck]

But surely protecting families from eviction and repossession is just.

The example of the widow’s offering holds infinitely more wisdom than anything that can be gained from economics.

 

[Kendy]

It sounds as if the bishops didn’t get involved until after the fact. Does anyone know otherwise?

Hmmm?? How will this program create crime?

Edit:
It appears the bishops were in fact pushing for passage:
usccb.org/sdwp/aa-natl_affordable_housing_tf_legis.pdf

I have lived near public housing units many times in my life, as I do now. Congregating lots of single moms, and unemployed men together is a bad idea. Simply it takes people who are generally irresponsible and prone to breaking the law and puts them all in one place.

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

But surely protecting families from eviction and repossession is just.

The example of the widow’s offering holds infinitely more wisdom than anything that can be gained from economics.

It is not just, as far as I am concerned, if those people bought more housing than tey could afford. And in general, I don’t think it’s just to take my money without my consent and give it to other people. And no, I don’t have a choice. If I don’t pay up, I will go to jail.

I don’t know what the widow has to do with this. The widow’s offering shows great love in the eyes of God, but economics is not about great love, it’s about efficiency and productivity. And before, you poo-poo those things. If it were not for efficiency and prductivity, we would all have no more than the widow to offer.

Kendy

 

[ribozyme]

I have lived near public housing units many times in my life, as I do now. Congregating lots of single moms, and unemployed men together is a bad idea. Simply it takes people who are generally irresponsible and prone to breaking the law and puts them all in one place.

Kendy

So how do you deal with them and provide for their needs? If you are going to propose charity, I suggest you provide strong evidence that it will adequately provide for their needs and such a means would have the necessary funding for such a task.

 

[Dale_M]

I have lived near public housing units many times in my life, as I do now. Congregating lots of single moms, and unemployed men together is a bad idea. Simply it takes people who are generally irresponsible and prone to breaking the law and puts them all in one place.

Yes, I think housing developments which concentrated the poorest people are widely regarded as a mistake.

But would this program be of a similar nature?

 

[Kendy]

So how do you deal with them and provide for their needs? If you are going to propose charity, I suggest you provide strong evidence that it will adequately provide for their needs and such a means would have the necessary funding for such a task.

First, of all, it is the responsibility of adults to provide for their needs by working. The bible does say that “He who does not work should not eat.”

Now, I understand that sometimes people fall on hard times and they need help, and we should help them. There’s is evidence that people are more likely to increase their charitable giving if you decrease theit tax burden. There’s also plenty of evidence that such programs are more effective than government agencies. But there’s of course no evidence that it will provide all their needs because I am not sure how one would organize the research to prove it. But more importantly, charity is always inadequate, as it should be, because if it is too comfortable than lots of people will not be motivated to work.

Take welfore reform from the late 90’s. Lot’s of families had been on welfare and public housing for two to three generations because it was adequate. When the country got disgusted and decided to limit the amount of time anyone could spend on welfare. lot of liberals predicted that the world would fall apart, and families would end up begging on the street. But 10 years later, it seems like most of those people just got jobs.

 

[Kendy]

Yes, I think housing developments which concentrated the poorest people are widely regarded as a mistake.

But would this program be of a similar nature?

I am not sure, but we had been moving away from public housing in the past few years, and I am sorry to see the expansion of such programs, which have never worked well.

Even when they don’t concentrate the poor but spread them out, they cause problem for the rest of the community by bring in their less than desirable lifestyles (drug use, loitering, etc.) into the communities where they are placed. The real solutions to poverty is not taking money from working people to give it to other people. It is to encourage hard work and good decisions. Poverty in America is mostly a result of failing to graduate from high school, keep a job, and having babies out of wedlock. The solution is to give people incentives to not do these things.

Kendy

 

[Christophorus72]

They understood their short term gain, and they did not consider the long term costs. They should have be allowed to learn fom that experience.

they understood the long term costs. come on, I’m not that naive. these banks (and the people that run them) knew exactly what they were doing. Loaning out money at a variable rate that will go from 6% to 14%, when the people could barely pay the mortgage at 6% is just plain stupid.

then again, many of these banks are the same ones issuing credit cards to kids in college who don’t have jobs, so the housing collapse is not a shock. but hey, you get a free t-shirt.

 

[Kendy]

they understood the long term costs. come on, I’m not that naive. these banks (and the people that run them) knew exactly what they were doing. Loaning out money at a variable rate that will go from 6% to 14%, when the people could barely pay the mortgage at 6% is just plain stupid.

then again, many of these banks are the same ones issuing credit cards to kids in college who don’t have jobs, so the housing collapse is not a shock. but hey, you get a free t-shirt.

I am not saying that it is a shock. I am not defending the banks They were trying to make a quick buck. Countrywide went bankrupt. So, should other mortgage companies who made these bad loans. These bailouts are getting you and me to pay for their greed, studpidity, and irresponsibility.

Kendy

 

[KathleenElsie]

I really hate it when the bishops support things like this. I think this is a terrible idea. I wish they would take a course in basic economics.

WASHINGTON DC, August 3, 2008–The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) praised a bi-partisan congressional effort to create a Housing Trust Fund they say will assist the lowest income households in the U.S. by aiding the construction and preservation of affordable rental housing.

cbcpnews.com/?q=node/4056

I am disappointed that The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) has not been as vocal and supportive of those the oppose abortion. If they want to support social issues fine. Just make a greater effort on defeating evil.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Yes, I think housing developments which concentrated the poorest people are widely regarded as a mistake.

But would this program be of a similar nature?

I live near Pittsburgh, PA and the city of Pittsburgh and the redevelopment people demolished a few hundred old run down houses with the promise of better housing for those that were moved. The majority were the working poor and they had public transportation and lived near their jobs.

When the reality hit that the authority could only afford X number of units to replace Y (a greater number) many people were forced to live in other rundown housing in crime ridden areas of the city. They no longer have the public transportation, community or support of years of living in the same community. The bigger problem is that some lost jobs when they were moved toooo far from their job.

The few units of replacement housing have been divided into low and mid-income single and two family homes. Guess which income got the most houses. If you guessed mid-income you get the prize.

 

[Kendy]

I am disappointed that The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) has not been as vocal and supportive of those the oppose abortion. If they want to support social issues fine. Just make a greater effort on defeating evil.

Well, I don’t think that’s fair. They are very vocal in supporting life. Members of congress have called them the mos vocal on capital hill. In fact, the catholic church is the biggest, loudest defender of life in this country and in the world.

Kendy

 

[Bennie_P]

I have lived near public housing units many times in my life, as I do now. Congregating lots of single moms, and unemployed men together is a bad idea. Simply it takes people who are generally irresponsible and prone to breaking the law and puts them all in one place.

Kendy

Money from this fund could toward rebuilding of such properties which in my neighborhood they tore down an old housing project and rebuilt it with new mixed income housing which cut the crime rate down to practically zero and made our neighborhood safer. There is a process to keep the drug dealers out. People which live in it are moslty low income, but working families. Without such funds that went into this project many of these marginal working class families would have been forced into run-down slum lord owned housing. where the crack heads, prostitutes and drug dealers rule. Much of the public housing today is being replaced with safe affordable housing, for those that are working low wage jobs and for those that are unable to work (disable). It is myth that all that need assistance caused thier situation to be in need.

Yes we need to promote stable families and change the way we give out public assistance to break the cycle which we created with the War on Poverty that split up families and created a generational problem of single motherhood, but we still need money put into projects such as these to be part of the solution. Of course part of the solution should be conversion, but we have to do that separate from government.

As to crime, felons cannot get into many of these housing projects ( I know I work with many trying to get back on track, but thier past criminal histories bring bearers to housing and job opportunities) and security is little by little becoming a norm in many of them as they are being rebuilt,It varies from city to city.

Also it seems the fund is to assist low income families to get into thier own homes, it is always better when a new family moves into the nieghborhod a homeowner then a renter:shrug: a no brainer there.

Part of being Catholic is not to take a right wing or left wing approach to our nations social problems, but seek Christ like solutions. Of course we need to understand we cannot solve all the problems, nor expect goverment to solve all the problems, but we need to do what we can with what we have. IMHO

 

[Kendy]

Money from this fund could toward rebuilding of such properties which in my neighborhood they tore down an old housing project and rebuilt it with new mixed income housing which cut the crime rate down to practically zero and made our neighborhood safer. There is a process to keep the drug dealers out. People which live in it are moslty low income, but working families. Without such funds that went into this project many of these marginal working class families would have been forced into run-down slum lord owned housing. where the crack heads, prostitutes and drug dealers rule. Much of the public housing today is being replaced with safe affordable housing, for those that are working low wage jobs and for those that are unable to work (disable). It is myth that all that need assistance caused thier situation to be in need.

Yes we need to promote stable families and change the way we give out public assistance to break the cycle which we created with the War on Poverty that split up families and created a generational problem of single motherhood, but we still need money put into projects such as these to be part of the solution. Of course part of the solution should be conversion, but we have to do that separate from government.

As to crime, felons cannot get into many of these housing projects ( I know I work with many trying to get back on track, but thier past criminal histories bring bearers to housing and job opportunities) and security is little by little becoming a norm in many of them as they are being rebuilt,It varies from city to city.

Also it seems the fund is to assist low income families to get into thier own homes, it is always better when a new family moves into the nieghborhod a homeowner then a renter:shrug: a no brainer there.

Part of being Catholic is not to take a right wing or left wing approach to our nations social problems, but seek Christ like solutions. Of course we need to understand we cannot solve all the problems, nor expect goverment to solve all the problems, but we need to do what we can with what we have. IMHO

It is not obvious to me at all that Christ’s solution is forced government confiscation and redistribution of wealth. It is Christ’s solution that we freely engage in works of charity. I am dying for someone to point to anything in scripture or a papal encyclical that demands these government programs.