U. S. Catholic Schools Worried New Health Care Plan Will Be Their Doom

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Cardinal George has said that hospitals, schools and clinics could close if the HHS mandate goes in effect
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Parish schools will be exempt.
Diocesans schools will be exempt.
Private Catholic Schools will most likely not be exempt, but they already provide private health insurance to their employees, and those insurance companies have had contraception, and abortion in their policies anyway.
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Not true. Many diocesan schools have non-Catholic students, and their primary purpose is not the inculcation of religious values but rather the teaching of math and other school subjects. Also, many diocesan schools employ non-Catholics.

Here are the conditions for religious exemption:

“But who is a religious employer—an organization that need not cover the disputed services in its insurance plan? According to the administration, to be counted as an exempt employer, the organization must (1) have “the inculcation of religious values as its purpose”; (2) employ primarily “persons who share its religious tenets”; (3) serve primarily “persons who share its religious tenets”: and (4) be a nonprofit organization that is regarded by the Internal Revenue Service to be a church, seminary, or other church-like entity.”

And who makes the final judgment? The HHS of the Federal Government. By Fiat.

Who else fails these 4 conditions? Catholic hospitals, clinics, food banks, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, St. Vincent de Paul societies, Catholic bookstores and more.
 
oneofmany said:
I find it astounding that Obama will get the majority Catholic vote when he is the most pro-death president we have ever had.

What is wrong with Catholics. Cafeteria Catholics for sure.
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There’s too many cafeteria Catholics. That’s what’s wrong.
 
Kay_Cee said:
You don’t have to reply but I hope you understand why I could not just stand by while someone insinuated that private Catholic schools are cooperating with evil.
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Most dioceses in the US were self-insured and did not offer these items to their teachers. The diocese I happen to be in right now has been using self-insurance. I used to teach in this diocese.

Massachusetts is different but that’s likely just because it’s Massachusetts and they’ve had different health arrangements than just about anyplace else for a while. Massachusetts is a very, very progressive state.

At any rate, along about the end of next year, if Obamacare doesn’t get repealed, you better go visit your favorite Catholic places before they disappear from the face of the earth. Take pictures. They’re all that’s going to be left.
 
KCT said:
And what’s sad is, people with be upset with the Church because of it.
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Well they should be. Cafeteria Catholics will re-elect Obama. They agree with him on most of his policies to the detriment of the whole church. Look at all the Catholics he has in his administration that are making his policies happen!!! They are called Obama Catholics and he knows he has them in his pocket. Shameful.
 
Anything that negatively impacts our Catholic schools is bad for American education in general. In California,for example, compared to public schools Catholic schools send a much higher percentage of graduates to four year colleges and do it with larger class sizes and less spending per student- 7000 per student per year, compared to 10000 per year for public schools. Even from a purely secular outlook, Catholic schools are winners, and anything which hurts the Catholic education system hurts all Americans.
 
oneofmany said:
Well they should be. Cafeteria Catholics will re-elect Obama. They agree with him on most of his policies to the detriment of the whole church. Look at all the Catholics he has in his administration that are making his policies happen!!! They are called Obama Catholics and he knows he has them in his pocket. Shameful.
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Unfortunately I believe your election prediction is correct. The Catholic vote will make or break Obama and to call those who support him “cafeteria” Catholics is charitable. They can more rightly be called heterodox and in some cases, heretical.
 
oneofmany said:
I find it astounding that Obama will get the majority Catholic vote when he is the most pro-death president we have ever had.

What is wrong with Catholics. Cafeteria Catholics for sure.
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Amen, oneofmany. It is indeed shocking that, regardless of any other issues, Obama’s stance on abortion-on-demand could possibly be acceptable to anyone who claims the Catholic faith.
 
Kay_Cee said:
You don’t have to reply but I hope you understand why I could not just stand by while someone insinuated that private Catholic schools are cooperating with evil.
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And just because coverage is provided for contraception and abortion, doesn’t mean the employee has to engage in those immoral medical procedures. If all Catholic schools hired only orthodox Catholic employees- which is their right- the contraception and abortion allowance in their health coverage would never be utilized, since the employees would understand the sinfulness of such action!
 
If, for the sake of discussion, there is an “exemption” today what guarantee is there the “exemption” will be in place 1 yr from today? The source of the “exemption”? Obama administration?
 
Faithdancer said:
Anything that negatively impacts our Catholic schools is bad for American education in general. In California,for example, compared to public schools Catholic schools send a much higher percentage of graduates to four year colleges and do it with larger class sizes and less spending per student- 7000 per student per year, compared to 10000 per year for public schools. Even from a purely secular outlook, Catholic schools are winners, and anything which hurts the Catholic education system hurts all Americans.
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I would say from a secular point of view that your assertions are correct. I’m not sure that this necessarily is the major problem with all this though. Catholic schools really don’t exist to be fake prep schools, although that’s how many, many people think of them and treat them.

The issue is what happens to be Church proper. Opinion is still out among many people about how effective Catholic schools are about propagating genuine Catholicity among members of the Catholic Church, religiously speaking. If a lot of them shut down, I’m not sure what effect it will have exactly, particularly since it is possible in this day and age to avoid sending one’s children through either a public school or a parochial school. There are a lot of private schools, charter schools and other options, and of course, there’s always home-schooling which has become quite popular in many places.
 
Faithdancer said:
And just because coverage is provided for contraception and abortion, doesn’t mean the employee has to engage in those immoral medical procedures. If all Catholic schools hired only orthodox Catholic employees- which is their right- the contraception and abortion allowance in their health coverage would never be utilized, since the employees would understand the sinfulness of such action!
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This is true. The fact that Catholic schools hire non-Catholics is a huge problem. There are not required under law to do so.

And in fact, some Lutheran schools have a different system which guarantees that their system remains Lutheran. This system was upheld in a Supreme Court decision just this year in Michigan.

In the Lutheran schools that the Supreme Court addressed in their opinion, the Lutheran schools hire everyone as independent contractors, which means they work on a contract with renewability limited to a few years, and are not formal employees. Only after several years of combination probation-training-conversion, do they hire them into the school system. There is no other way to be hired in their systems. Teaching is considered a ministry once a teacher passes this probation-training-conversion process and is declared an “educational minister,” complete with certificate, and only THEN is able to be hired. The criteria for passing are under the sole control of the Church itself, not the state, according to the Supreme Court.

This is the case, even though much of the school day is actually spent teaching math and science and english and so on. The Supreme Court said that the subject matter, which is normal for a non-public school, and the administration of the school’s teaching employees were two separate issues and the administration of the school’s teachers was the sole business of the Lutheran community.

The rationale for the decision was that only the Lutheran community can discern who they want as their ministers. The government cannot take this away from them. It did not matter to the Supreme court that they were ministers of education and not ministers on the pulpit. The giving of authority to pass on the teaching was the criteria that mattered, and only Lutherans are capable of giving Lutheran teaching authority according to the Supreme court. They have that right.

Catholics are far, far too concerned with being politically correct and not concerned enough about their main goals which do include passing on the faith in some degree of fidelity and clarity. That’s how we got into the messes we’re in now! Blaming someone else is always the knee-jerk reaction Catholics have, but we’re in the nasty place we’re in primarily because we asked for it over and over and over. It’s like we wear a big sign that says KICK ME, I dare ya.

Or maybe kick me, I like it, or maybe I won’t even notice. Like those Catholics voting for Obama this time around. They just don’t seem to get it.
 
MJE said:
If, for the sake of discussion, there is an “exemption” today what guarantee is there the “exemption” will be in place 1 yr from today?
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Nothing short of a huge lawsuit which would be expensive and may be futile.
MJE said:
The source of the “exemption”? Obama administration?
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Yes.
 
👍
iloveangels said:
This is true. The fact that Catholic schools hire non-Catholics is a huge problem. There are not required under law to do so.

And in fact, some Lutheran schools have a different system which guarantees that their system remains Lutheran. This system was upheld in a Supreme Court decision just this year in Michigan.

In the Lutheran schools that the Supreme Court addressed in their opinion, the Lutheran schools hire everyone as independent contractors, which means they work on a contract with renewability limited to a few years, and are not formal employees. Only after several years of combination probation-training-conversion, do they hire them into the school system. There is no other way to be hired in their systems. Teaching is considered a ministry once a teacher passes this probation-training-conversion process and is declared an “educational minister,” complete with certificate, and only THEN is able to be hired. The criteria for passing are under the sole control of the Church itself, not the state, according to the Supreme Court.

This is the case, even though much of the school day is actually spent teaching math and science and english and so on. The Supreme Court said that the subject matter, which is normal for a non-public school, and the administration of the school’s teaching employees were two separate issues and the administration of the school’s teachers was the sole business of the Lutheran community.

The rationale for the decision was that only the Lutheran community can discern who they want as their ministers. The government cannot take this away from them. It did not matter to the Supreme court that they were ministers of education and not ministers on the pulpit. The giving of authority to pass on the teaching was the criteria that mattered, and only Lutherans are capable of giving Lutheran teaching authority according to the Supreme court. They have that right.

Catholics are far, far too concerned with being politically correct and not concerned enough about their main goals which do include passing on the faith in some degree of fidelity and clarity. That’s how we got into the messes we’re in now! Blaming someone else is always the knee-jerk reaction Catholics have, but we’re in the nasty place we’re in primarily because we asked for it over and over and over. It’s like we wear a big sign that says KICK ME, I dare ya.

Or maybe kick me, I like it, or maybe I won’t even notice. Like those Catholics voting for Obama this time around. They just don’t seem to get it.
Click to expand...
👍
 
_Abyssinia said:
Cardinal George has said that hospitals, schools and clinics could close if the HHS mandate goes in effect
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I wonder how many people in the U.S. could potentially become unemployed if Catholic schools, hospitals, diocese, charities, etc. would be forced to close if Obamacare comes to fruition? And why isn’t that number being shouted by the Romney camp?
 
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