U.S. Catholicism: Decline and Fall

[JReducation]

I must have missed something somewhere. I know that there is a decline in faith in the modern world, especially in Europe and North America. However, I have not seen as beak a picture as is being painted by some people.

We live in a parish where there are seven masses every weekend. The Church holds about 800 people. With the exception of the 8:00 mass on Sunday mornings, every seat is occupied at the other masses. There is one mass in Latin (OF) every week. And there are baptisms every month. There are two priests hearing confessions every Saturday for an hour and they usually have to tell people to come back next week, because their hour is up and they have to leave for community supper and recreation, which they are not allowed to miss. They are both religious.

The same parish has 75 ministries going strong, with 600 kids in religious education, 300-500 teen at the youth mass on Sunday evenings and over 100 teens at the youth meeting after mass. They also have adoration of the Blessed Sacrament on Thursdays for the teens with about 100 teens in attendance from 7:00 to 8:00 PM. Often the parents join their teen children. The confrimandi class this year is about 60 kids.

There are four secular deacons and seven religious men assigned to the parish. Of the seven men, two are priests, though only one works as a priest during the week. The other is the maintenance man and groundskeeper. But the other religious men run all kinds of ministries when they are not involved in community functions.

For Christmas the parish held a reconciliation service. They brought in priests from among the retired secular clergy and another parish. There were about five priests hearing confessions. The lines were over an hour long.

In January there are going to be two parish retreats, one for high school students and one for middle school students. The parish is also committed to the March for Life. There was a parish fea market that the teens organized. There were over 150 booths staffed by parishioners. This was to help raise funds for the mortgage and other parish expenses. The teens also organized a Santa’s Breakfast in December. They wanted to raise funds for a Catholic Summer Camp that the diocese sponsors. They made several thousand dollars and they did all the cooking, cleaning, music, entertainment, and setting up.

Every night, while the religioius are at prayer and in Grand Silence, the laity holds meetings for one ministry or another, usually there are several meetings going on at the same time. The people work very hard to keep their parish going, sometimes meeting until 10:00 at night planning parish ministries and functions. They are very dedicated people. The most beautiful part of this parish is its integration. There are Latin Americans, European Americans, Asian Americans, Black Americans and many people from the islands.

They have everything from rosary groups to praise and worship meetings. The spirituality runs the entire spectrum. The best thing about it is that they have a large religious community of men there, but their religious life is not interrupted by the parish, because the lay people are very dedicated and very respectful of the religious. When the religious have to go to pray the Liturgy of the Hours, to community recreation, community meals, community meetings, to do manual labor at their community houses, no one complains. The laity carries on as if the religoius were there. Everyone knows what to do and everyone helps new commers learn the routine of the parish.

The parish even has a food pantry run by the youth group and the KoC. They make sure that there is always food to give away to the poor. The Respect Life group in the parish has cribs, baby supplies, clothes and works closely with the Franciscan Brorthers of Life to ensure that every pregnant woman is taken care of or every family who has a sick member or a baby or a senior is covered. When they can’t serve the needs of these folks, they refer them to our brothers who are there in a heart-beat.

This is the same story at the parish where I was before, except that one had a school from k-8, full, run by IHM Sisters. They had eight sisters on the staff and three friars.

Parish life is also very dependent on the enthusiasm of the local people, not just the priest and bishop. Everyone has to be enthusiastic.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[ProVobis]

We live in a parish where there are seven masses every weekend.

And in many cities in the U.S., parishes are closing. I hear in Europe, it’s even worse, but in Africa and Asia, parishes are flourishing.

 

[JReducation]

And in many cities in the U.S., parishes are closing. I hear in Europe, it’s even worse, but in Africa and Asia, parishes are flourishing.

We certainly cannot deny that the world is becoming godless, especially in the northern hemisphere. But we can’t blame that on the Church either. So many things have happened at the same time from WW II until today. It’s very difficult to trace a line and say “This is what has led people away from God.” I think it’s a little bit of every thing.

That being said, we can be positive, because there are some very positive signs and there are some very moral or at least neutral reasons for the decline in numbers. I guess my point is to avoid pushing the panic button that announces that the ship is going down. That’s not the case either.

One thing that I have noticed is that the re-distribution of Catholics has affected the numbers. When I was a kid (very very long ago), people lived either on farms or in cities. Suburbs existed, but not on the scale of today. People living in urban areas tended to crowd together by culture. Of course culture included religion. I’m not an athropologist, but I would imagine that living in the same apartment building with 25 other families of your faith (usually Catholic, Protestant or Jewish), you felt pulled along and part of a community or family, almost like the Ricardos and the Mertzes.

Then came the Dick VanDycke and Cleaver families, the suburban family. These families were not as attached to their neighbors and more attached to their colleagues and friends from other faiths, cultures and values. As Catholics left the cities and moved into the suburbs, they also left the tightly knit Catholic ghettos in which they lived and which played such an important part in their lives.

It’s funny, because this is why monasticism began in the first place. The monastery was to be a self-contained society to protect the monks from the distractions of the world. It provided a safe haven for the faith and nurtured it. In fact, what happened to people of faith, was that they formed their own monasteries in apartment houses and do forth.

I have always believed that art reflects life. I can’t remember who said that, but I believe it. The way that we build our homes in suburbia reflects our life. Our houses are either detached or if they are attached, such as town houses and condos, they are as impersonal as can be. The outside is not very inviting and certainly not warm. How many new constructions include a front porch? Unfortunately, as people become detached from each other, they lose their support system.

I believe that many more Catholics have drifted away because of a lack of community life, than because the Church made changes. There are always changes in the making through the history of the Church. And someone always gets upset and leaves. Sometimes they leave in groups or herds. That is not new to this period in history. What we have to look for is what is new to history? The displacement and depersonification of daily life among the middle and upper social economic classes is new. In history, merchant classes bonded, the nobility bonded and each group bonded for political, economic and other kinds of support. But withour realizing it, they also supported and encouraged each other’s faith. Those bonds are not there today.

I remember being a young kid, still Jewish, going to temple because my neighbors went. I found temple boring. I didn’t like my father’s Catholic mass either. That was boring too. The temple was in Hebrew and the Church was in Latin and I spoke English, Spanish and Yiddish. I was out in the cold. But I went, because I felt connected to my neighbors and probably a little bit of guilt too.

We have to build up community. Parishes need to generate more activities that brings people together as a neighborhood of Catholics. I have seen it happen, but it requires a lot of work on the part of many people.

Have a Blessed New Year!

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Malkin71]

We certainly cannot deny that the world is becoming godless, especially in the northern hemisphere. But we can’t blame that on the Church either. So many things have happened at the same time from WW II until today. It’s very difficult to trace a line and say “This is what has led people away from God.” I think it’s a little bit of every thing.

That being said, we can be positive, because there are some very positive signs and there are some very moral or at least neutral reasons for the decline in numbers. I guess my point is to avoid pushing the panic button that announces that the ship is going down. That’s not the case either.

One thing that I have noticed is that the re-distribution of Catholics has affected the numbers. When I was a kid (very very long ago), people lived either on farms or in cities. Suburbs existed, but not on the scale of today. People living in urban areas tended to crowd together by culture. Of course culture included religion. I’m not an athropologist, but I would imagine that living in the same apartment building with 25 other families of your faith (usually Catholic, Protestant or Jewish), you felt pulled along and part of a community or family, almost like the Ricardos and the Mertzes.

Then came the Dick VanDycke and Cleaver families, the suburban family. These families were not as attached to their neighbors and more attached to their colleagues and friends from other faiths, cultures and values. As Catholics left the cities and moved into the suburbs, they also left the tightly knit Catholic ghettos in which they lived and which played such an important part in their lives.

It’s funny, because this is why monasticism began in the first place. The monastery was to be a self-contained society to protect the monks from the distractions of the world. It provided a safe haven for the faith and nurtured it. In fact, what happened to people of faith, was that they formed their own monasteries in apartment houses and do forth.

I have always believed that art reflects life. I can’t remember who said that, but I believe it. The way that we build our homes in suburbia reflects our life. Our houses are either detached or if they are attached, such as town houses and condos, they are as impersonal as can be. The outside is not very inviting and certainly not warm. How many new constructions include a front porch? Unfortunately, as people become detached from each other, they lose their support system.

I believe that many more Catholics have drifted away because of a lack of community life, than because the Church made changes. There are always changes in the making through the history of the Church. And someone always gets upset and leaves. Sometimes they leave in groups or herds. That is not new to this period in history. What we have to look for is what is new to history? The displacement and depersonification of daily life among the middle and upper social economic classes is new. In history, merchant classes bonded, the nobility bonded and each group bonded for political, economic and other kinds of support. But withour realizing it, they also supported and encouraged each other’s faith. Those bonds are not there today.

I remember being a young kid, still Jewish, going to temple because my neighbors went. I found temple boring. I didn’t like my father’s Catholic mass either. That was boring too. The temple was in Hebrew and the Church was in Latin and I spoke English, Spanish and Yiddish. I was out in the cold. But I went, because I felt connected to my neighbors and probably a little bit of guilt too.

We have to build up community. Parishes need to generate more activities that brings people together as a neighborhood of Catholics. I have seen it happen, but it requires a lot of work on the part of many people.

Have a Blessed New Year!

Br. JR, OSF

You have a point. When I was in school. I came from the last of the neighborhood Catholic Schools. Where I live in Pittsburgh, at one time were about 7 Catholic schools 1-8 and sometimes 9-12 in a 20 block area. Granted, these were ethnic Parishes. Pittsburgh is a blue collor town that is proud of its heritage. By the time that I started school there were 4 Catholic Schools. By the time that I graduated there was only 1.

In the 90’s The Dioecsis started to merge Parishes. This created a stir amog the faithful. The Parishes were ethnic and what Parishes should remain open and what shall close. After the mergers many left for different reasons. One time the Parishes had Summer carnivals and a Fall indoor Bizzars. All had Christian Mothers, Holy Name Society’s and St. Vincent DePaul Society’s. Parishnor’s were close with one another and had Parish Picnics. Shure you had the squabbles with one another. But you had a home. The Parishes were beautiful Churches with hand crafted, painted Stations and Statues.

When the Closings started, it killed the people. Some were historic landmarks. Some had history. People felt that something that was aprt of them was ripped out and never to be back. It is sad to see Churches that you used to go to visit that has become, Brew Houses, Night Clubs, Halls, and apartments. It is a sick sad feeling. All the money that our ancestors gave to build their Parishes and see that it is all gone. No more closeness, no more family and home feeling.

What was more devestating is that all the traditions that the individual churches had suddenly dissappeared. It was not the same. You had two different ethnic Churches within two blocks of each other. When the Parishes merged it created hostilities. Some left for the Eastern Rite. Some left and did not come back.

 

[Malkin71]

P2.

When you try to bring back some customs the answer is no. The People get discourage and wil not give like they did before. We have a lot of College Kids in the area. But, After a year or two they leave. The money part I can see why we have mergers. If you go deeper it is more.

Alot has to do with the political atmosphere in the 60’s and 70’s. The attitudes and thought slowly crept into the Church and in the society itself. This happened via the schools and the teachers that taught the students. It is harder to change somone who is set in their ways. So they went to the children. You may not get all. But, you will get alot.

Also, media, T.V., movies, music, played a role too, How many shows on t.v. in the late 60’s and the 70’ were on the cutting edge with topics that were fobidden before?

I can go on. I would say it was a mix of events that led to the Decline of Catholicism in the U.S.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I am an anthropologist. I grew up with 10 of the 14 houses on our block in suburban New Orleans in which the families were Catholic. Five of those houses still house the “Mamas and the Daddies” who moved in in 1955 and my brother, sister, and myself are still in touch with them even though our parents have gone to their eternal reward.

Perhaps New Orleans is not a good example. I was shocked at the ethnic divisions I observed when I was stationed in Chicago in the early 70s. I grew up in a neighborhood in which being a Catholic was more important that ethnicity. We were Irish, French, German, Italian, and Sicilian. We absorbed the Cubans who came in 1960 and adopted them into our culture. The Vietnamese are here and they too will be absorbed into our cultural “gumbo”.

I can see where ethnicity might have contributed to the decline elsewhere but it didn’t here. My pc died and DWs Mac cannot support the scanner but I have a picture of me from 1960 in an newspaper article as crucifer leading a St. Rosalie procession - a Sicilian devotion - blond hair, blue eyes, and a pug nose. I simply did not grow up with ethnic divisions.

I saw the “Mammas and the Daddies” become increasingly marginalized in my local parish. The “Mammas and the Daddies” stopped going to the main 10 am Mass on Sunday when my generation was allowed to whip out the guitars and throw out all the traditional hymns and organ. So then they went to the 8 am Mass which was silent. And then they brought the guitars and the new songs to the 8 am and ripped out the Communion rail and made them stand to receive Communion. So then they went to the Vigil Mass on Saturday and that’s where you will find them to this day.

Doesn’t sound like much but from an anthropological point of view, it was a massive culture shift.

It is very unfortunate that Vatican II happened at the precise time when many of my generation questioned the beliefs, values, and mores of our parent’s generation. It wasn’t all of us who followed the cultural revolution that happened around 1965. Not all of us became hippies, had long hair, or protested the draft. It was socio-economic and political. I can remember in 1970 when I was attending our local public university in which there were no protests against the Vietnam War, and we became the object of a protest march from students from Tulane and Loyola to galvanize support. It went over like a lead balloon.

I enlisted and served my country and when I came back from the Navy in the spring of '74, I was amazed at the changes. We wore dress clothes to school before I went in the Navy. I came back and the students were in jeans and the girls were running around braless in tee shirts.

I have a double major. I am a history major and an anthro major. HMC made changes gradually in the past. There is nothing in the past - not even during the Renaissance in response to the Reformation to compare with what happened after Vatican II. Secular culture changed and so did Catholic culture. I know that the documents of Vatican II did not call for such a radical change yet it did.

A better explanation, Brother, is that those of my generation picked up the ball and ran with it in conjunction with the societal change occurring around us.

I just want people to remember that not all of my generation agreed with it. Many of us (at least in my geographic area) did not have long hair; did not smoke pot; did not protest the war in Vietnam and simply submitted to the magesterium with all the changes.

Front porches? I was never so glad when my folks bought an air conditioner in 1964. We had to sit outside before that because it was too hot inside even with an attic fan and box fans. We couldn’t come inside until at least 10 at night. Didn’t stop the neighbors visiting or when my parents were still alive and the neighbors saw that I was home to come over and have a cup of coffee.

 

[BlueSteel]

It’s funny to live in a town where I can literally stand on a corner an turn around and count 8 chruches.
The local parish had to move to “edge” of town to build a bigger school and church complex because the town is growing and families are moving in. Catholic families. Because of this the parish doesn’t really care about attracting non-Catholics. They’re getting enough growth just from within.
I guess you have to have been born there to join the club.

 

[JReducation]

I have a question. But before I ask it, I should give the bigger picture. While it is true that we have many issues happening, it is also true that there are many good things happening. One of the great things that is happening, at least from the point of view of male religious communites, is that we are returning to our roots.

This is good for the religious. What is happening is that mendicants are becoming mendicants again. Monastics are turning back to monasticism. Missionaries are going out on missions again. Teachers are returning to the university and college classroom where they belonged in the first place. Preachers are back on the road and so forth. Religious men can pray, play, eat, work, be silent together again, as a family. They are not interrupted by the parish. Religious life is being protected so that the Church enjoys the graces that come from religious life.

I say protected because in the past we religious had too many priests. They were usually in parishes. After many years, they turned into diocesan priests in habits and some even took off the habit, without permission. They walked around in Roman collars like diocesan priests or clerks regular and canons. They didn’t look or live like friars or monks. When they got older and were recalled to live in the friary or monastery, they suffered. It was unjust to them. They were no longer used to having to ask for permission to go outside, to use money, to borrow the car, travel, go out to dinner, miss community prayer or community recreation. They had gotten into the habit (no pun intended) of doing these things on their own and having their own car, TV, computer, money, friends and schedule. They had house keepers. Once they were back in the friary or monastery, they were expected to fall in line with these rules and routines, because this is what religious life is about. You don’t have your own car, clothing, tv, money or free will to come and go. You ask for permission for the simple things that other people take for granted, like sleeping late or going to a movie.

After seeing the suffering of our brothers, many religious orders decided that parish life was not helpful to their charism. In fact, it was often in conflict with their charism. They had lost vocations, many left and others looked at other orders that lived the religious life. Religious men have began a reform, which always means to go back to their roots. As a result, the number of men coming in is increasing again.

I realize that this is hard on the laity, because as religious move back to their roots, parishes are closed because the bishops do not have enough diocesan priests to cover the large numbers of parishes. Sometimes, the parishes that were left by religious cannot afford to pay the salaries of diocesan priests. So they lose five religious and get one diocesan priest to cover two parishes. Five religious did not get salaries, insurance, mileage, 401K and retirement plans. Five diocesan priests do. Parishes can’t afford to replace five religious with five diocesan priests.

I understand that having religious take over so many parishes from about 1900 to 1980 was a mistake, because of the efects that it had on the religious life of men. It was also a mistake for religious orders that were founded as non-clerical orders to ordain so many men that they became clerical. Now there is the attempt to correct this. I also understand that to the average lay person in the pew this does not feel like a blessing, but it is. There are many graces that flow from religious life lived correctly.

I know that many religious men have complained that they did not feel useful in parishes, because they were not priests. Even though they are very well educated in theology, spirituality, administration, and other pastoral functions, and the parishioners were always kind to them; but when it came time for spiritual direction, marriage counseling, preaching retreats or parish missions, the laity always wanted an ordained religious.

The laity has not always understood why religious men who are priests are assigned to be gardners, porters, maintenance men, administrators, formation directors, scholars, teachers, nurses, social workers, etc, depending on the needs of their religious house. There is no guarantee that because you are a priest, you will celebrate sacraments every day, not if you belong to a religious order. In my own Franciscan family, we have brother priests who have never baptized or witnessed a marriage. They have always been in positions where they heard confessions and celebrated mass on weekends, but did other things from Mon to Fri.

I know where the religious men went wrong and why they now realize that they can’t do as much parish work as before and what they have to change to make it possible to be a religious and keep the few parishes they have.

We can’t just sit around complaining or mourning the good old days that are now deceased. We all have to engage in soul searching and finding what needs to be done by every one. Part of being positive is to be pro-active. Each of us has to say, I have to do this or I have to change that.

My question is, what did the laity do that made it difficult for religious men to continue to live as friars and monks in a parish? Did they expect too much? Did they not support the religioius charism of the men in their parishes? What is the laity’s role in the fact that many religious men run in the opposite direction when you mentioin parish, especially middle class and up? What does the laity need to change to make parish ministry “doable” for monastic and mendicant religious who are still there?

Maybe Rolf has some answers, having knowledge of anthroplogy, human systems and social organization and evolution.

Happy New Year and may our Lady bless us all on this her special day.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[HisWill777]

I have no idea because I am not in a position to know…George Tiller was a Lutheran aborted babies all week and ushered on Sunday at the Lutheran church…

I head an Anglican Bishop say abortion was a blessing…

Wow, nice low blow. What’s your point? Should I name the numerous Catholic priests that have committed terrible acts??? If you don’t believe those things that have been revealed in the past decade or so have caused many to fall away you are mistaken.

I seriously came on this site to research the Catholic faith and possibly convert. I do believe in much the Church has to offer, but i have to say the “we are better than all” attitude that is pervasive on here is very un-Christ like. You all need to read the Bible and learn what this attitude did for the Jews, Pharisees and Sadducees(sp?). Many of the Catholics on here are not being stewards, they just like to flaunt their knowledge of the Church and its Traditions. Didn’t Jesus admonish others for doing the same things?? Hopefully someday all of us Christians will get our act together and truly express our faith as one.

 

[pnewton]

Wow, nice low blow. What’s your point? Should I name the numerous Catholic priests that have committed terrible acts???

All Christian groups have their wolves. All Christian groups have their Pharisees. You are right to disregard such things as irrelevant.

 

[ProVobis]

My question is, what did the laity do that made it difficult for religious men to continue to live as friars and monks in a parish? Did they expect too much? Did they not support the religioius charism of the men in their parishes? What is the laity’s role in the fact that many religious men run in the opposite direction when you mentioin parish, especially middle class and up? What does the laity need to change to make parish ministry “doable” for monastic and mendicant religious who are still there?

JR, that should be obvious. The laity was “encouraged” to participate more in the day-to-day activities of the church, and not necessarily within their own parishes. Priesthood of the laity took on a big-time theme. Permanent deacons. Nuns dressing like laity. EMHC. Readers. Women servers. Cantors. Liturgical committees. People acting like priests in the pews. The sanctuary was open to all. Even organists and music directors transcended parishes.

But one thing didn’t change. Not too many volunteers to take up the collections. School children are still pushed to go house-to-house selling raffle tickets. And people still get turned off on “sermons” begging for more donations. Maybe because they figure they do enough by showing up at Mass, going to communion, and running the parishes?

 

[brotherhrolf]

I think Brother may be on to something as it pertains to religious orders. We have a Benedictine abbey nearby which houses the undergraduate seminary for, hmm, the province of Louisiana. It has been there since long before I was a boy and is still a very active abbey with stable vocations. The Benedictines support themselves with a large farm and sell hand crafted cypress caskets. They run a retreat center with a year long waiting list. They will assist local parishes in the Baton Rouge/New Orleans area with a visiting priest to say Mass when need arises. But they remain very much Benedictines and, as Brother pointed out, they maintain their “specialists”.

I know of two, personally. One was a priest who has composed some really beautiful hymns that my choir has sung on xeroxed copies of his hand-written manuscript. Father passed away in the early 90s but he passed the baton on to a young brother who has continued to work with choirs in my diocese and down in New Orleans with workshops on chant and traditional Catholic hymnody.

The second was a priest who was a gifted amateur archaeologist. The abbey has several Native American sites on their grounds and I was happy to assist Father on several occasions. Sadly, he too has gone to his eternal reward.

Throughout all of this, the abbey has retained the charisms of the Benedictines and their 1500 year old tradition of abbeys/monasteries being bastions of learning and culture.

I don’t recall the Franciscans being involved in parish activities in New Orleans. We have Franciscans here, brothers and sisters, that are involved with a local Catholic hospital. They are not involved in parish work.

About the only other orders I know of that are involved in parish work are the Jesuits who have one parish in my diocese; the Dominicans who have one; and the Redemptorists who have one. The Redemptorists, however, have a long tradition of serving “immigrant” communities. They built a “German” church of my ancestors in New Orleans and directly across the street they built the “Irish” church of my ancestors.

(I am going to digress here to put in a “plug” for Blessed Francis X. Seelos whom my great-great grandmother knew and helped. I have prayed for his canonization since I was a boy. Yes, I know I’m shameless. seelos.org/ ) Work within the parish, however, is part of the Redemptorist charism.

I am glad to hear that our religious orders are returning to their roots.

 

[GratefulFred]

Excellent discussion that brings out concerns I was not sensitive to. It would take too much space to comment on all points, but I’ll offer on some. Mine is just a view, certainly without any scholarly research.

Ethnic groups - The values both sustain and constrain. “MINE” has more value than “YOURS” at least to me. I know mine and it is too much effort to know yours. This limits our ability to find common ground and to cooperate. Which group gets the better Mass times? Why is my Mass in two languages that feels like I am attending two different Masses, one I understand and one I don’t? I’m old enough to remember the Latin Mass and my Missle was Latin on one page and English on the other. An all English Mass helps me follow along much better especially when the priest and readers use the proper cadence and inflection to speak the prayers. And a missle I read read while hearing the prayers helps me to stya focuse dand getting a meaning understanding. Yet I still appreciate parts in Latin like Agnus Dei.

Religious vs Laity - I don’t think the laity took over and forced the religious into retreat. I think vocations declined too much and the laity WAS ASKED by the Church to step up and in to continue what ministries they could handle. The decline in priests, I think, is the major reason for the closing of Churches and merging of ethnic parishes. Desire for a priest rather than a Brother or Sister or Lay consellor - I think we make an assumption that we have the better with a priest. We don’t stop to think whether he is trained well in our subject need or not, he is priest who can consecrate the Host and forgive sins, he can do anything. At the same time we don’t know the the training and ability of Brothers and Sisters. I think more support from priests, more promotion of their abilities would help to break the ice of acceptance. We need to know what you are doing, what you can do, and that you have the full sincere support of the local priests.

Affluent distractions - The explosion of transportation and communication - in a word “entertainment” - since WW II is soooo attractive that many, I think, see religious devotion as a severe limit on their desire to live the good life. If it feels good, do it. The drugs, sex, rock n roll mantra of the 60s drowned out the very old (but still true) call of “Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all else shall be given unto you” call of religion. After WW II we found ourselves as a kid in the candy shop with a fist full of nickles. We wanted to stuff ourselves not realizing it would make us sick. Divorce and abortion relieved many from the responsibilities of their actions. What was necessary for the kids was no longer important. I, me, mattered most.

Secular progressives - Our courts and media developers quietly decided that it was more American to establish freedom FROM religion rather than maintain freedom OF religion. If any ONE person complained about a long standing religious tradition, that tradition had to go.

But, Pope John Paul II said in America, “The Pope is not against Freedom. The Pope is for the good use of Freedom.” Bingo. The good use of Freedom.

All the Church ministries by religious or laity are great, but they are no replacement for teaching the Good Use of Freedom. Religion has to teach the long view - eternity - and work it all the way back to daily personal choices. Unless each of us knows that God does exist and that we do have an immortal soul that will end up in either Heaven or Hell for all eternity, then all the other concerns mention on this post are for naught. Church is not just a social club with groups competing for control and recognition.

Has the Parish effort lost sight of the most basic teaching we truly need in preference for all the social activity?

 

[JReducation]

JR, that should be obvious. The laity was “encouraged” to participate more in the day-to-day activities of the church, and not necessarily within their own parishes. Priesthood of the laity took on a big-time theme. Permanent deacons. Nuns dressing like laity. EMHC. Readers. Women servers. Cantors. Liturgical committees. People acting like priests in the pews. The sanctuary was open to all. Even organists and music directors transcended parishes.

But one thing didn’t change. Not too many volunteers to take up the collections. School children are still pushed to go house-to-house selling raffle tickets. And people still get turned off on “sermons” begging for more donations. Maybe because they figure they do enough by showing up at Mass, going to communion, and running the parishes?

None of these things have anything to do with religious life. The question is why do religious men find it so difficult to live like religious while working in parishes, to the point that they are not taking on more parishes, not replenishing the pond with new and younger religious, but letting the parish die by attrition or refusing to ordain men to the priesthood, unless they need them for their internal pastoral needs. These are the three trends of the recovery.

We know where the religious orders and bishops went wrong. They should not have made religious orders responsible for parishes in the first place, unless they were cleircal institutes of canons or clerks regular. Many of the canons and clerks were founded for parish ministry.

But since the deed was done and religious men, especially the mendicants and the monks were asked to run parishes, how did the laity contribute to making it almost impossible for them to be religious and run a parish at the same time?

Everything that you mentioned above actually helped the religious orders. By taking on more duties in the parish, the religious could pull back, which is what religious men wanted. But something else happened. These efforts on the part of the laity were not enough to help protect and nurture the conventual life of the mendicant and the monastic life of the monk. The question is, what did the laity not do or did do that made the mendicant and monastic life so difficult in the parish?

Everything that you mentioned above is actually good for religious orders. But it was not enough. Something else went wrong.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

Religious vs Laity - I don’t think the laity took over and forced the religious into retreat.

You bring up some very interesting points in this paragraph. Let’s limit this to religious men, becaues women religious are in a different canonical category. The laity did not force religious men into retreat. In fact, religious men wanted to retreat and alays felt that the laity wanted them to be more present.

We have a very large house, which I won’t mention by name, so as not to offend anyone who lives in that area. There are 20 friars in that house. They want nothing more than to work at the parish for three or four hours and the get back to the friary to pray the Liturgy of the Hours, be in silence, study, recreate with their brothers, eat with their brothers, do manual labor around the house, walk the streets as St. Francis did, and go out to preach retreats, missions, etc as St. Francis did. But when they set up office hours, some people go upset. The office was open from 8:00 to 4:00. But each friar had a three hour duty and they rotated. On weekends, the ordained were allowed to celebrate mass and hear confessions.

I think vocations declined too much and the laity WAS ASKED by the Church to step up and in to continue what ministries they could handle.

Along with the other social factors that affected vocations, many men who were attracted to the charism of the early religious decided not to enter once they visited our houses and saw that we were just diocesan priests in habits. This was one reason why there were less priests, There were less religious.

This prompted religious men to reconsider two things:

1. 
   *]Are we really supposed to be orders of priests?
   *]Do we belong in parishes?
   
   Many answered in the negative. We were not founded as orders of priests. Priests were in the minority and their numbers should remain in the minority.
   
   Other orders answered in the affirmative. We were founded to be an order of priests, but not parish priests. We were to be missionaries, hermits, monks, teachers, preachers, etc.
   
   All of them said, “What the heck are we doing with so many parishes and how do we rescue our orders?” The answer was to return to the founders.
   

   Desire for a priest rather than a Brother consellor - I think we make an assumption that we have the better with a priest. We don’t stop to think whether he is trained well in our subject need or not, he is priest who can consecrate the Host and forgive sins, he can do anything. At the same time we don’t know the the training and ability of Brothers.

   What you’re saying actually happened in one parish where our brothers volunteered to cover for a short-term. It was actually funny. Seven friars were assigned to the parish. Only one is ordained. Since our friars all bo by Brother, you have no idea who is a priest. Only the superior goes by Father. People were very upset as soon as they found out that Father, was not the priest, but was in charge and there was only one priest in the bunch. He was the parrochial vicar.
   

   We need to know what you are doing, what you can do, and that you have the full sincere support of the local priests.

   How do you tell a superior who is not a priest, that the priest in his community, who is subordinate to him, must give him public support and approval for him to minister? You can’t do that. No priest who is subordinate to a non-clerical religious would dare do that. He would be in big trouble. Superiors expect the laity to trust their judgment when they assign religious men to them. I’m wondering if this lack of trust or this requirement that there be some kind of confirmation or sign of support from a priest, who is in fact subordinate to the superior, made it difficult for superiors to govern these communties. Bascially, the superior is undermined, if he is not a priest.
   
   If we are going to move forward, two things have to happen.
   
   1. 
      *]Religious men must return to their original charism.
      
      *]Lay people have to take over many functions in the parish, so that religious men can fulfill their religious ogligations.
      
      You can’t pray the Liturgy of the Hours five times a day when you are being interrupted. You can’t have grand silence in the evening, if you are expected to be at endless evening meetings. You can’t spend time recreating with your brothers or having dinner with your brothers if the phone is ringing. You can’t have an hour before the Blessed Sacrament, if everyone wants to meet with the priest and no one else or if you have to spend endless hours over budgets and finances. Religious men must return to living religious life, to keep the young men who are now entering.
      
      Young men looking at religious life do not want to join those communities that look like the communities prior to 1960. Those were good for the laity. But they were not very good for the religious. If you wanted to be Carmelite, Franciscan or Dominican, you did not find that spirit in those parishes. They were too busy, each guy on his own schedule, no community life, no common prayer life, no common meals, no common recreation, no common periods of silence, nothing that made them different from a diocesan priest. Those communities were very clerical. Priests ran them, which is contrary to the origins of the mendicants and the monks, where equality was part of the fraternal life.
      
      The vocations declined as young men read more and discovered more about the founders. Today, they tell us they want a religious life with all the trimmings. They want a religious life that is very different from that of the religious order down the street. In other words, Dominicans don’t want to live like Franciscans.
      
      But how can the laity help at the parish level?
      
      Fraternally,
      
      Br. JR, OSF

 

[MonFrere]

Other than your usual “full house” on Christmas and Easter I remember our church only full on one other day – that day was Sunday September 16, 2001; the Sunday after the September 11 terrorist attacks.

All of a sudden people felt the need for God and for a couple weeks - the attendance was full. People are not going to church because they feel no need for God.

MonFrere

 

[JReducation]

Other than your usual “full house” on Christmas and Easter I remember our church only full on one other day – that day was Sunday September 16, 2001; the Sunday after the September 11 terrorist attacks.

All of a sudden people felt the need for God and for a couple weeks - the attendance was full. People are not going to church because they feel no need for God.

MonFrere

Not everywere. I just went to mass today and the Church was full. It was one of four masses. It’s really important to see the bigger picture. There is something positive happening in some communities. The question is how to duplicate it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[ProVobis]

Other than your usual “full house” on Christmas and Easter I remember our church only full on one other day – that day was Sunday September 16, 2001; the Sunday after the September 11 terrorist attacks.

All of a sudden people felt the need for God and for a couple weeks - the attendance was full. People are not going to church because they feel no need for God.

MonFrere

And attendance on the Holy Days other than Christmas is really disappointing, if not downright embarrassing. The bishops decided to do away with Ascension Thursday obligation because of this.

 

[JReducation]

And attendance on the Holy Days other than Christmas is really disappointing, if not downright embarrassing. The bishops decided to do away with Ascension Thursday obligation because of this.

It was moved to Sunday, not done away with. There was a practical reason, actually two.

1. Ascension Thursday is not a holy day of obligation in the universal Church. It is a solemnity.
2. In some countries it’s not a holy day of obligation. In the USA it is. But as we grew into longer work days and many, if not most, companies refusing to grant leave for holy days and religious holidays, many people could not get off from work to go to mass.

In some dioceses the Epiphany has been moved to the Sunday after Jan 1. In those dioceses where it is a national holiday and people don’t work, it remained on Jan 6.

I was in one diocese in South America where Ash Wed is the Sunday before the first Sunday of Lent, because people work all day and the bishop wanted to make it available to as many people as possible.

I think that our work ethic, in the industrial nations is out of control and has interfered with our spiritual lives. That’s just my two cents.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[ProVobis]

It was moved to Sunday, not done away with.

That’s Churchspeak for you.

Since Sunday is always a day of obligation, the obligation to attend on Ascension Thursday (40 days after Easter, not 43) was effectively dispensed. Unless I didn’t hear right and we are to assist at two Masses on Ascension Sunday.