U.S. Catholicism: Decline and Fall

[CatholicGuy22]

I dont know what the church can do.It seems that the church is doing all it can do. It may be just how society is becoming more laid back and not really caring about there religion.

 

[Janet1983]

The Catholic Church in America is doing far better than the Catholic Church in the UK. I have visited New York City and I was amazed at how vibrant the Catholic community was. For the first time in my life, I actually saw other Catholics my age who were serious about their faith. I saw policemen, firemen, businessmen, students, and families all proudly attending Mass at St. Patrick’s Cathedral. Even the EF Mass at St. Agnes Church was well attended by people of different races and age groups. I was amazed!

From my experience, I can truthfully say that the Church in England is the exact opposite. Our churches are empty. There are very few Catholics under the age of 50. The Church does not really exercise any authority in the public sphere. My diocese has less than 10 seminarians annually.

I wish the UK was more like the USA in this regard.

Same picture in German parishes…

 

[JReducation]

That’s Churchspeak for you.

Since Sunday is always a day of obligation, the obligation to attend on Ascension Thursday (40 days after Easter, not 43) was effectively dispensed. Unless I didn’t hear right and we are to assist at two Masses on Ascension Sunday.

Remember, it’s a solemnity. It is a holy day of obligation in some countries. The solemnity must be celebrated. The holy day of obligation is up to the local conference of bishops. In some states in the USA, it is still on Thursday. Not every state has it on Sunday.

The Bishops’ Conferences of some states did not want to move it. They did not. Remember, you have a national conference of bishops and you have a state conference of bishops. There are some decisions that the national conference leaves up to the local conference.

There are also some holy days that are universal, such as January 1, even though it was changed from the the Solemnity of the Circumsicion (sp?) to the Solemnity of Mary the Mother of God. However, New Year’s Day is not a holy day of obligation. Therefore, the solemnity can be moved to any day of the year.

If we’re going to get religious about it, there is a biblical New Year, Rosh Hashana and a liturgical New Year, First Sunday of Advent. January 1st is the Lunar New Year. It has nothing to do with Revelation. That’s why solemnities can be moved around by either the Holy See, the National Conference of Bishops, the Local Conference of Bishops or a religious order of men.

On this last one, only religious orders of men in solemn vows have the authority to move solemnities. They must meet these conditions: a) be an order not a congregation, b) in solemn vows and c) male. However, they can only move feasts and solemniities observed by their order and the move can only be in their houses and parishes. For example, if you attend mass at a Franciscan parish, October 4 is always a solemnity and the form of the OF mass is that of a Sunday and the EF mas is High Mass for that day. In the rest of the Church it’s a memorial. It is a holy day of obligation for all Franciscans including the Secular Franciscans.

In the USA the Immaculate Conception is a holy day of obligation because it’s our patronal feast. In other countries its a solemnity, but not a holy day of obligation. In other words, not all solemnities are holy days of obligation, but all holy days of obligation must be celebrated as solemnities.

The rules are tricky. Then you get into the Blesseds. Where and when can you celebrate their feast days and who can celebrate them and who cannot. LOL

Believe it or not, all of this has its logic.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

I wonder how much of this can be linked to the European and American sexual revolution?

Anyway, it seems there is an uprising of devout catholics, as opposed to the lukewarms.

 

[Lutheranteach]

The teachings of the Church are too in-convenient for secular America. Hopefully society will eventually become repulsed by itself and come back to the Church. I’ll pray for that.

I think most under 30, perhaps even 40, look at a lot of teachings, and Church doctrine and simply view them as antiquated to the point of being non-applicable and in some cases I can’t totally disagree with them.

The problem with being upset with the lukewarm religious is that if any denomination gave an ultimatum to tow the line or get out…they leave and take their contributions of time and money with them and any church is in trouble without them.

 

[JReducation]

I wonder how much of this can be linked to the European and American sexual revolution?

Anyway, it seems there is an uprising of devout catholics, as opposed to the lukewarms.

I believe that the sexual revolution was really a sign of something deeper in society. As Fr. Benedict G. once said, we came out of a ssytem that was structured, with organized rules and defined roles, but it also had some oppressive practices. When people explode they often throw all inhibitions aside. The Western World went from a pattern of thinking that was very Victorian to the other extreme. Now the pendalum has to find its balance.

But there are many more forces at work here. Some were good too. Not all of them were bad. Some forces were very good, but they were not well received, because people don’t like change. As I stated above, the forces of change among religious orders of men have been very good. We are slowly moving back to our roots. But this was not well received by the laity, because it had a negative effect on them.

Lay people becoming more involved in ministry is a good thing. Not everyone feels comfortable with it. Some people walk away because of their discomfort, not because it’s a bad thing.

Women becoming more involved in the inner life of the Church has been a good thing. The fact that we now have female canon lawyers, theologians and adminsitrators working in positions as high as the Vatican is a good thing. Women bring a different perspective.

The increase in attention to youth by Pope John Paul II is a very good thing. It has been a force that has triggered many religious and clerical vocations. Not everyone likes World Youth Days. But we cannot deny that many young men and women came away from them and went directly to seminaries or religious orders. We religious refer to them as the John Paul II generation.

Laying aside centuries of antagonisms between Christians is a good thing. Not everyone agrees.

Then there were forces that were not so good. These were not unleashed by the Church. They affected the Church as much as they affected other systems.

Relativism has been a horrible force, not only in morality, but in politics and economics and family life.

Consumerism has not done much good for society either.

Self-determination has been carried to an unrealistic extreme. Man has made himself his own god.

Freedom of speech has been abused and turned into freedom of nonsense as I like to call it.

Artistic expression and artistic freedom has evolved from the expression and search for beauty to the expression and search for outlet. Art has been used to express every negative and evil thought that man can experience.

Religious freedom has been misinterpreted. It was meant as freedom from oppression and freedom search for truth. But it has been used to equalize all beliefs, which is contrary to the search for truth. There can only be one truth.

I can go on like this for another couple of pages.

The bottom line here is that there were forces at work in man that were good and bad. Since the Church is made up of men, these forces go where man goes. They have to be recognized and sorted out. We have to keep the good and get rid of the wrong.

As a people of hope, we must never fear. God will walk us through this to the other side of the tunnel. However, we have to do our part. We have to find what is good, keep it and generalize it so that it is used every where and we also have to recognize what is wrong and put a stop to it. However, these are not definitions that individuals can make. These are definitions that Church authorities must make. Otherwise we end up with the same issues that the Protestants have, too many authorities and so many opinions that no one knows what is true.

Unfortunately, what I find in many people, religious, clergy and lay, is that they don’t want to do the work of reflecting on their own contribution to the problems. Everyone wants to point the finger. It’s like Adam and Eve. Adam points the finger at Eve and she points the finger at the serpent. No one wants to accept their share in the fall. This is the most realistic definitioin of Original Sin. Just take for example the question that I asked above. I asked, what did the laity do to make it so difficult for religious men to remain in parish work. How many lay men have said, “We did this and that.”

Unless we can admit what we did wrong, we won’t know to avoid doing it again. It’s the old thing about “He who ignores history is bound to repeat it.” We have to look at the forces at work, good and bad and how we participate in them. This way, we can see what we need to correct and what we need to keep.

Having been involved in the renewal of my own religious family has taught me that renewal always means going back to the origins and then going forward while trying to avoid the pitfalls of those who came before us. We will probably find pits of our own and fall into them. In several hundred years someone will do this all over again. But that’s the way that life works. It’s always a two steps back and three steps forward, in order to take one step toward progress.

Conservatives want to step back, but not come forward again. Liberals refuse to go back at all. These extremes are ineffective. We must look at what was supposed to be, what we did wrong, what we did right and make the adjustments accordingly.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

I think most under 30, perhaps even 40, look at a lot of teachings, and Church doctrine and simply view them as antiquated to the point of being non-applicable and in some cases I can’t totally disagree with them.

The problem with being upset with the lukewarm religious is that if any denomination gave an ultimatum to tow the line or get out…they leave and take their contributions of time and money with them and any church is in trouble without them.

Doctine is truth. Truth is never antiquated. Besides, it cannot be changed. Now, if you’re talking aboiut disciplines, there we have some wiggle room. Disciplines can be changed.

As to people leaving and taking their money with them, let them. As Mother Teresa once said, “God has plenty of money.”

My religious community has had brothers living under bridges, because they were evicted for not having their rent money. Do you want to kow why? The Franciscan Brothers of Life work entirely in promoting the Gospel of Life. When we preached chastity, the righs of the unborn, the rights of the chronically ill, the rights of the elderly and the rights of the dying, people don’t like what they hear. Guess how they punish us? They don’t donate to Respect Life. If they don’t donate to Respect Life, we don’t eat or pay rent. Oh well!

What we did was we canceled all of our medical insurance policies, because we could not afford them. We gave up all but two of our cars and we walk or hitch a ride. We no longer have a friary. We live where ever people allow us to live cheaply. We eat simple food or whatever people give us. Each of us has one habit, two pairs of pants, two changes of underwear, a toothbrush, bible and breviary. We not dying. That’s what Jesus revealed to St. Francis, “He who loses his life for my sake shall find it.”

I should add that we have men from ages 16 to 40 looking at us as a possible vocation. Not too shabby for a group that doesn’t care if people walk away with their wallets.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[MonFrere]

I think that our work ethic, in the industrial nations is out of control and has interfered with our spiritual lives. That’s just my two cents. Br. JR, OSF

Brother - This reflects back to my comment on people’s attitude being one of not needing God. I totally agree that our “work ethic” is crowding out the possibility of religious devotion that people may feel from time to time. The demands of work crush out the chance for any chance of these sentiments toward God to ever flower.

I honestly think, against much that’s said in the “traditional” community of the Church, that things would be worse if Vatican II had never been. I think without the laity seeing their own autonomy within the Church and our own, perhaps misdirected, attempts at accomplishing that autonomy, things would be worse today. I think, relating to what you responded to me, about those pockets in the Church that have brighter prospects in their communities, is where you are going to find successful applications to the mandates of Vatican II.

I also want to present this point that I notice in myself and in people in general. It seems as if we have a problem that we cannot enthusiastically pursue a religious mandate unless all our personal religious ducks are in a row. In other words, we somehow stall ourselves from doing big things until our own personal little things are satisfied. So, what we end out doing is to debate and debate the liturgy allowing that debate to distract us from “bigger” things. I think this is part of the scandal of sin. These liturgical abuses that we’ve witnessed has truly offended us; and in being offended we have also become distracted until that offense is properly addressed. But, IMO we have to rise above that scandal of sin and do those “bigger things”. It’s like learning to work in spite of having a headache – you have to keep attention to the greater tasks. Otherwise limited amount of human energy we each possess is spent on those smaller things which we cannot change distracting us from those larger things that we are mandated to change.

My “personal” solution is to rise above the chatter and noise of concern and worry (even concern that may have some legitimacy to it) and not allow it to distract me from doing greater Christian works with my limited amount of human energy will do more spiritual good in the long run.

MonFrere

 

[ProVobis]

I wonder how much of this can be linked to the European and American sexual revolution?

Anyway, it seems there is an uprising of devout catholics, as opposed to the lukewarms.

You’re definitely on the right track there. Fornication and adultery are much more prevalent and open today than 50 years ago. It’s still civilly illegal; however, it’s not enforced. I wonder if it’s even confessed at all.

Divorces seem to keep a lot away from the Catholic Churches. However, I have noticed that Poles go to Mass even if they’re divorced/remarried; they know enough to stay away from communion though. Poles (like Hispanics) wouldn’t think of joining a Protestant church. Or am I stereotyping too much here?

 

[JReducation]

I also want to present this point that I notice in myself and in people in general. It seems as if we have a problem that we cannot enthusiastically pursue a religious mandate unless all our personal religious ducks are in a row. In other words, we somehow stall ourselves from doing big things until our own personal little things are satisfied.

My “personal” solution is to rise above the chatter and noise of concern and worry (even concern that may have some legitimacy to it) and not allow it to distract me from doing greater Christian works with my limited amount of human energy will do more spiritual good in the long run.

MonFrere

Are you sure you don’t have a vocation to be BoL? That was said like an excellent son of St. Francis. I’ll quote you something from the life of our Holy Father Frnacis, written by Ignacio Larrañaga. Our Holy Father said,

“There is no nobler order of knighthood in the world than to roam the world at the command of the Great Emperror Jesus Christ, to carry Lady Poverty on a sea of dreams, to help all those wounded by sorrow, to undo the injustices of selfishness, to look for the truth in fallacy, to attack dejection in the pessimist, to rush at the fortress of sin, to carry the banner of peace, to reach for the stars rather than criticize anyone, not even the Supreme Magistrate, nor the clergy, nor the civil authorities. Let the brothers not push for reform, but rather share the true treasure that we have discovered with the masses.”

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[lemonbeam]

Father Barron made a video which binds into this discussion:

youtube.com/watch?v=0KrkU-XsNbU

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I heard a Protestant Priest on YouTube say that Protestantism is growing in America?

 

[JReducation]

You’re definitely on the right track there. Fornication and adultery are much more prevalent and open today than 50 years ago. It’s still civilly illegal; however, it’s not enforced. I wonder if it’s even confessed at all.

Divorces seem to keep a lot away from the Catholic Churches. However, I have noticed that Poles go to Mass even if they’re divorced/remarried; they know enough to stay away from communion though. Poles (like Hispanics) wouldn’t think of joining a Protestant church. Or am I stereotyping too much here?

Unfortunately, the Catholic Church in Latin America messed up big time and Evangelical Protestants are gaining ground. Before I explain what happened, allow me to say that they are a minotrity. The worse part is that there is rumor that the US Government financed many of their missions under the guise of foreign aid, because it served a purpose: 1) to keep Latin America dependent on the USA and 2) to weaken the only challenger powerful enough to sway the Latin Americans against the USA. You have to remember that Latin Americans can no longer trust their political leaers. They did trust the Church, so they sought the Church’s guidance on temporal matters as well as spiritual.

The Church made two big mistakes that weakened her position in Latin Amercia.

Too many theologians, clerics and religious aligned themselves with Liberation Theology. They lost the support of the wealthy. Without the support of the wealthy, the Catholics had no financial resources to serve the poor. In the end, Liberation Theology came crashing down.

The conservative or traditionalist movement in the Church in Latin America became very identified with the wealthy and powerful. Since the wealthy in Latin America make up less than 20% of the population, the “traditionalist” Church lost face with the other 80%. I’m using traditionalist in quotes, because it does not mean the same thing in Latin America as it does in the USA and Europe. It’s not about liturgy, it’s about status quo. The efforts of this group was to maintain the status quo.

Fortunately for Latin America, John Paul II became pope and visited them many times. They fell in love with him, especially the young. In addition, St. Jose Maria Escriva also paid a lot of attention to Latin America and people fell in love with the Opus Dei. Then came Mother Teresa, she was like the light in the darkness, because she captivated both the poor and the wealthy masses.

Having spent 10 years as a missionary in Latin America, I can say from experience that Escriva, John Paul II and Mother Teresa have had a stabalizing effect on Catholicism there. Devotion to them has slowed down the Evangelical movement and has increased the number of vocations to the religious life and to the priesthood. Colombia is exporting missionaries to the USA. Argentina and Chile are exporting missionaries to Europe. Brazil, even though they are not Hispanic, remain the most Catholic country in Latin Amercia. The weakest countries in Latin America right now are Ecuador and Peru.

What has happened in Ecuador and Peru is what I was talking about above. I know, because I was stationed in Ecuador. Most parishes in Ecuador were staffed by religious, mostly Franciscans, Jesuits and Salesians. The Franciscans pulled out to work among the poor in the slums and among the Native Americans in the Andes. The Salesians pulled out of parishes to staff more schools for the poor. The Jesuits pulled out of parishes to return to scholarship and preaching. The bishops did not see this coming. They had not planned on it. They did not have enough secular seminarians to staff these parishes. Parishes that once had up to 10 religious men were suddently reduced to one diocesan priest. Many parishes no longer had priests. The religious send someone on weekends to celebrate mass and hear confessions, but there is no one there during the week.

The Claretians and the Redemptorists are the two large religious communties in parish work in Ecuador. So the Church in Ecuador is in serious trouble. However, the Ecuadorians are still predominantly Catholic. When there is a priest to celebrate mass, there are many people in attendance.

I should add that they do have many religious sisters in Ecuador, Secular Institutes, and Christian Brothers.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

You’re definitely on the right track there. Fornication and adultery are much more prevalent and open today than 50 years ago. It’s still civilly illegal; however, it’s not enforced. I wonder if it’s even confessed at all.

I have to add here that sex, in its many forms is not new. It went underground as a result of the Victorian era. But it was always there to the same degree that it is there today. We simply didn’t have TV and Internet before. I’m remembering studying Regency History in England. They had a rule. Husbands were allowed to be unfaithful as long as wives could claim plausable deniability. Women could be unfaithful to their husbands as long they did not embarass them by getting caught. The English were not the only ones who played these games.

All of these games are part of man’s search for God. The great danger is when man believes that these games will provide him with happiiness.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[archangel04]

.

As long as the Pope allows the liberal Bishops to remain in power these things will continue. **Liberal Catholic have a disgust for real Catholics and real Catholics have a disgust for Liberals. **That is the way it is, and they way it will always be. As long as the Liberals remain in power, the real Catholics will be persecuted. In our diocese one of the worst Priests was just made Bishops of the neighboring diocese. The only good signs in the Church (in the Latin Rite, anyway) are the Traditional Orders.

I consider myself “conservative” Catholic who loves the OF, but also has much appreciation for the EF. I don’t have a disgust for liberals, but I do pitty them. Tradition does need to come back, but not to the point where the OF is eliminated. One thing that needs to be done is to stand up for out faith. Educate people that the church isn’t about how we “feel”, but about Truth and Love for God. Enough is enough with these people who get their “feelings” hurt when the truth is spoken. The windows have been open and secularism is the only thing creeping in, I say it’s time to bring the roof down to let God’s light in.

Tradition orders isn’t the only good sign, another good sign are people in the “ordinary” laity who are waking up to what Vatican 2 really was meant to be, I am one of them. Teaching new confirmation kids on what the Church really teaches.

Is “tradition” the only solution? No, but it plays a major part of it.

 

[archangel04]

Conservatives want to step back, but not come forward again. Liberals refuse to go back at all. These extremes are ineffective. We must look at what was supposed to be, what we did wrong, what we did right and make the adjustments accordingly.
Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Exactly

 

[JReducation]

The very idea that Catholics have disgust for any human being is contrary to everything that Catholicism stands for.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[MonFrere]

Father Barron made a video which binds into this discussion:

youtube.com/watch?v=0KrkU-XsNbU

I love Fr. Barron. I learn a great deal from his videos. I consider him very much a Catholic traditionalist, meaning he is constantly drawing from Catholic tradition for the formation of his ideas – however, since some of these ideas don’t mesh with “conservativsm” - American style - sometimes he gets categorized as being too liberal. Also, some people don’t understand him accurately, thinking he’s a closet “modernist”. But for me I look to him as a bright light in explaining Catholic thought with clarity against American culture.

MonFrere

 

[JReducation]

I love Fr. Barron. I learn a great deal from his videos. I consider him very much a Catholic traditionalist, meaning he is constantly drawing from Catholic tradition for the formation of his ideas – however, since some of these ideas don’t mesh with “conservativsm” - American style - sometimes he gets categorized as being too liberal. Also, some people don’t understand him accurately, thinking he’s a closet “modernist”. But for me I look to him as a bright light in explaining Catholic thought with clarity against American culture.

MonFrere

This is where I have a problem. Why must someone have a label? Fr. Barron is a wonderful preacher and teacher. He’s bright, articulate and persuasive. The most important thing that we need to know about him is that he is a good priest. I like him very much. I would love to meet him. Does anyone know what diocese he belongs to or is he a religious?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[MonFrere]

This is where I have a problem. Why must someone have a label? Fr. Barron is a wonderful preacher and teacher. He’s bright, articulate and persuasive. The most important thing that we need to know about him is that he is a good priest. I like him very much. I would love to meet him. Does anyone know what diocese he belongs to or is he a religious?

Spot on - Brother!!

Here’s his Word on Fire WebSite Address:

wordonfire.org/Home.aspx

Here’s what his WebSite says about him on the About Us page.

Father Robert Barron
Father Robert Barron is a sought-after speaker on the spiritual life-from prestigious universities to YouTube to national conferences and private retreats. The prominent theologian and podcasting priest is one of the world’s great and most innovative teachers of Catholicism. His global media ministry called Word On Fire has a simple but revolutionary mission - to evangelize the culture.

Fr. Barron is the Francis Cardinal George Chair of Faith and Culture at University of St. Mary of the Lake/Mundelein Seminary in Mundelein, Illinois. Ordained an Archdiocesan priest in Chicago in 1986, he also has published numerous books, essays and DVDs.

Fr. Barron lectures extensively in the United States and abroad, including the Pontifical North American College at the Vatican and the Pontifical University of St. Thomas Aquinas in Rome. He also is a passionate student of art, architecture, music and history. Fr. Barron has been called “one of the Archdiocese’s greatest gifts” (Open Book, Amy Welborn).

Fr. Barron is a Catholic evangelist. He reaches millions of people through Word On Fire by utilizing advanced and emerging technologies.

* WordOnFire.org - Fr. Barron's website launched in 1999 draws over 300,000 visitors a year from every continent. Fr. Barron posts weekly video clips, commentaries and radio sermons and offers an audio archive of over 300 homilies. Podcasts of his sermons are widely used by tens of thousands of visitors each month.
* TV - EWTN (The Eternal Word Television Network) broadcasts Fr. Barron's DVDs to a worldwide audience of over 44 million people.
* Radio - Since 1999, Fr. Barron's weekly Word On Fire program has been broadcast in Chicago (WGN) and throughout the country (Relevant Radio - 950 AM Chicago) to 28 million listeners in 17 states. Fr. Barron also is a regular commentator on the "Busted Halo Show" on the Sirius satellite radio network based in New York.
* DVDs - Fr. Barron's DVDs are used as powerful faith formation tools in universities, schools, churches and homes around the country. The series includes Seven Deadly Sins, Seven Lively Virtues; Faith Clips; Conversion: Following the Call of Christ; and Untold Blessing: Three Paths to Holiness.
* YouTube - Online video commentaries by Fr. Barron draw thousands of viewers worldwide and are among the most popular of any evangelist on YouTube. These frequent, high-quality productions include brief and lively theological reviews of contem porary culture, including movies such as No Country for Old Men, Apocalypto, and The Departed, a three-part critical review of Christopher Hitchen's book God is Not Great, The Discovery Channel's The Jesus Tomb, the HBO series "The Sopranos", "Rome" and more.
* Missions - MISSION CHICAGO features evangelization lectures by Fr. Barron at the behest of Cardinal George. These special missions and presentations throughout the Archdiocese are centered in downtown Chicago and attract business, civic, and cultural leaders.

Fr. Barron is a prominent theologian. Since 1992, Fr. Barron has taught Systematic Theology at the nation’s largest Catholic seminary, The University of St. Mary of the Lake/Mundelein Seminary in Mundelein, Illinois. He was a visiting professor at the University of Notre Dame in 2002. Fr. Barron received a Master’s Degree in Philosophy from the Catholic University of America in 1982. He received a doctorate in Sacred Theology from the Institut Catholique de Paris in 1992. Fr. Barron was baptized at Queen of All Saints Basilica in Chicago and grew up at St. John of the Cross parish in Western Springs, Illinois.

Fr. Barron is an award-winning author. His numerous books and essays serve as critical educational and inspirational tools for seminarians, priests, parishioners and young people worldwide. His published works are also central to the numerous retreats, workshop and talks that he leads around the country.

* Eucharist; 2008
* Word On Fire: Proclaiming the Power of Christ; 2008
* The Priority of Christ: Toward a Post-Liberal Catholicism; June 2007
* Bridging the Great Divide: Musings of a Post-Liberal, Post-Conservative, Evangelical Catholic; 2004
* The Strangest Way: Walking the Christian Path; 2002
* Heaven in Stone and Glass; 2000
* And Now I See: A Theology of Transformation; 1998
* Thomas Aquinas: Spiritual Master; 1996
* A Study of the De potentia of Thomas Aquinas in Light of the Dogmatik of Paul Tillich; 1993

MonFrere

 

[pnewton]

I wonder how much of this can be linked to the European and American sexual revolution?

Anyway, it seems there is an uprising of devout catholics, as opposed to the lukewarms.

Considering both the timing and the nature of this sin, it is surely worth considering. And yes, there are still plenty of devout Catholics in every parish.