U.S. Church Official: 'The Day May Come When We Have to Resist'

[Mark121359]

No, it won’t take that shape. They’ve gotten much more clever. They won’t be arresting and murdering priests and nuns for “being catholic.”

They will use the courts, fines and jails over time to create the appearance that they are punishing evildoers by revoking tax exemptions, prosecuting ‘hate speech’, and forcing believers out of desirable professions.

Think I’m exaggerating? Take these examples in recent years:

1. Obama Administration tried to force a religious school to rehire a teacher who was obstinately undercutting the religious teachings of her employer. Thankfully, the SC overturned it for now, but the attempt was seriously made.
2. The IL governor signed an executive order that pharmacists may not refuse to fill prescriptions for abortifacient drugs. Also overturned for now by courts, but not for a couple years in which hundreds of christians faced a crisis of faith vs livelihood.
3. The IL Catholic Charities was widely recognized as one of the best adoption agencies in the state, but was denied a license to operate AT ALL if they operated according to catholic teaching that children should not be adopted by gay couples. Note that the state has plenty of OTHER adoption agencies that gay people are free to use. Not good enough. Note that CC now can no longer even facilitate adoptions by faithful catholics. They are de-licensed.
4. If you own a medium or larger business, Obama attempted to force you to provide all your employees with insurance that pays 100% of the cost of contraception, morning after pills, IUDs and in some cases elective sterilization. Morally object to that? Too bad, you’re paying for it. Refuse and we’ll run you out of business with fines. (Apparently overturned for now, but not until thousands of business owners were forced to choose between faith and business. Admittedly, most chose business).
5. Photographers and bakers have attempted to respectfully decline to participate in gay weddings, but been sued for ‘unjust discrimination.’ It remains to be seen if courts will find any distinction between refusing to serve a PERSON and refusing to participate in an EVENT that is morally objectionable. (Personally, a reasonable compromise would be to say that a photographer may not decline to photograph two men because of who they are, but may object to photograph events he objects to. Thus, he may not refuse to photograph two men who want a ordinary portrait together, but he may refuse to photograph their wedding, just as he may refuse to take porno pictures for them. It’s the actions he may object to, not the people.)
6. Catholic Relief Services has historically been recognized as among the very best NGOs involved in providing care for refugees from war and political violence. Nevertheless, the Obama administration shut down their contract simply because they refused to be complicit in providing abortions to pregnant refugees.
7. Attempts have been made in the past (so far defeated, but for how long?) to REQUIRE doctors going into OB or family practice to participate in abortions as part of residency training. No conscience exemptions allowed. So far, pro-lifers have successfully fought back, but the NARAL types keep pushing for it because very few doctors really WANT to participate in abortions. Go figure.
8. The Mozilla CEO. The gay community got the guy fired because of his PRIVATE contributions to a political group seeking to block approval of gay marriage in CA. The message: Anybody not OK with gay sex is not welcome leading a big company. If you think that way, you better stay in the closet. Ironic…

See the pattern? They’re not going to shoot us, they are going to marginalize us and starve us out one small step at a time. All in the name of “progress,” of course.

This post got me thinking about something Johnnette Benkovic of EWTN talked about on her radio program Women of Grace a couple years ago that she called the five stages of religious persecution. Not in America you say, right? Here Msgr. Charles Pope describes what Johnnette spoke about. And as you read about these “five stages,” you’ll soon realize we’re probably already into stage three. And for me at least, that is very, very chilling to put it mildly!..
blog.adw.org/2012/11/some-thoughts-on-the-five-stages-of-religious-persecution/

Peace, Mark

 

[Sean_St_Jude]

This is truly scary! What exactly do you think he means by “have to resist?”

Sadly many people think of this as a literal Call to Arms, and to resist with Violence, revolt and guns.

This is NEVER the answer.

Gay Marriage will not ruin the country, and the irony is that most of the country is obviously starting to resist the constant judgement of the religious right and most importantly, their wanting to force their religious beliefs onto those who may not agree with them, which is wrong for any religion to do.

The gay marriage issue is already plunging this Culture of Death further down, and don’t you think the actual majority is starting to get tired of all the perversion we keep seeing on the news? All kinds of perversion. Today I drove by a Planned Parenthood center in Austin and I was horrified (never seen one). It had very high fences. It reminded me of one of the gas chambers at Auschwitz.

I agree that everyone should be treated with respect, and don’t believe homosexuals should be persecuted; however, it’s a Circus out there, and someone has to set the bar for the children and for the honor and love of God who forbids such things.

I know I hurt God much, myself, and I’m sorry. Now, I have the duty to tell other people that sexual behavior is a choice and I chose to stop sinning fourteen years ago and returned to the Church.

 

[mikekle]

This post got me thinking about something Johnnette Benkovic of EWTN talked about on her radio program Women of Grace a couple years ago that she called the five stages of religious persecution. Not in America you say, right? Here Msgr. Charles Pope describes what Johnnette spoke about. And as you read about these “five stages,” you’ll soon realize we’re probably already into stage three. And for me at least, that is very, very chilling to put it mildly!..
blog.adw.org/2012/11/some-thoughts-on-the-five-stages-of-religious-persecution/

Peace, Mark

The problem is, those responsible for starting all this, are doing it very slow and methodical, so people dont even recognize its happening and before too long, we will wake up and practicing christianity will be illegal, in ALL forms, but it wont happen quickly. they know if you slowly take more and more away, the people dont pay attention.

But the bible warned us these days were coming, so it really should not be a surprise, after all, nobody said it was easy and comfortable to be a Christian!

 

[ReConverted]

From Zenit:

The day may come when U.S. citizens actually have to resist the nation’s radically-changing forces, set to limit religious freedom - just one of the views shared with ZENIT by an ambassador of the World Congress of Families, Fr. Marcel Guarnizio.

An expert on the region and Russia having ministered there extensively, Fr. Guarnizio warns that hope disappears when populations don’t see a need to have families. He believes Russia now has a new vitality, needed to help Western Europe resist its “death culture”, and considers a free market economy to be the best way to bring people out of poverty.

Fr. Guarnizio, a native of Northern Virginia, was attending a Rome conference June 26-29 on the theme: “Poverty and Common Good: Putting the ‘Preferential Option for the Poor’ at the Service of the Poor.” The event was organized by the international think tank Dignitatis Humanae Institute (DHI) which aims to uphold human dignity based on the anthropological truth that man is created in the image and likeness of God. Conference speakers included senior Vatican officials, politicians, media and business leaders, in the Casina Pio IV of the Vatican gardens.

Glad to see people speaking up like this. IMHO, we need to hear this more.

**Anything to gin up the rubes. Thankfully, many Catholics aren’t taken in by this. Those who do buy into this are being played like a cheap violin. I’m happy to announce that after a few choice SCOTUS decisions, Americans are waking up to this Theocratic evil at their doorstep and WE will resist, too. Count on it. Whatever happened to “Live and let live”? And this “persecution” nonsense is disgusting. You want persecution? Try living in a country where Christians are tortured for their faith. We in America are blessed, and we’re not tortured for our faith here. Disagreement is not persecution.
**

 

[markomalley]

…We in America are blessed, and we’re not tortured for our faith here. Disagreement is not persecution.

Yeah, absolutely. Paranoics like this need to be shut down:

"I expect to die in bed, my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr in the public square…"

:banghead:

 

[GaryTaylor]

From Zenit:

The day may come when U.S. citizens actually have to resist the nation’s radically-changing forces, set to limit religious freedom - just one of the views shared with ZENIT by an ambassador of the World Congress of Families, Fr. Marcel Guarnizio.

An expert on the region and Russia having ministered there extensively, Fr. Guarnizio warns that hope disappears when populations don’t see a need to have families. He believes Russia now has a new vitality, needed to help Western Europe resist its “death culture”, and considers a free market economy to be the best way to bring people out of poverty.

Fr. Guarnizio, a native of Northern Virginia, was attending a Rome conference June 26-29 on the theme: “Poverty and Common Good: Putting the ‘Preferential Option for the Poor’ at the Service of the Poor.” The event was organized by the international think tank Dignitatis Humanae Institute (DHI) which aims to uphold human dignity based on the anthropological truth that man is created in the image and likeness of God. Conference speakers included senior Vatican officials, politicians, media and business leaders, in the Casina Pio IV of the Vatican gardens.

Glad to see people speaking up like this. IMHO, we need to hear this more.

And we need to continue to remind democratic Catholics they are cooperating and promoting attacks on the Catholic Church. They went from liberal to radical now.

We may not be tortured for our faith today in the US, but I wouldn’t count on a gradual decline either, might be a sharp fall off the cliff. Better to speak up and spare the innocent lifes which Obama is wholeheartedly against. And when the Sisters of the Poor are attacked by Obama as Cruz stated of recent we reached a new level of despicable, and Catholic Relief? Thats about the end of the line where no other help is coming.

 

[KidShellen]

Anything to gin up the rubes. Thankfully, many Catholics aren’t taken in by this. Those who do buy into this are being played like a cheap violin. I’m happy to announce that after a few choice SCOTUS decisions, Americans are waking up to this Theocratic evil at their doorstep and WE will resist, too. Count on it. Whatever happened to “Live and let live”? And this “persecution” nonsense is disgusting. You want persecution? Try living in a country where Christians are tortured for their faith. We in America are blessed, and we’re not tortured for our faith here. Disagreement is not persecution.

It doesn’t matter that we live in the United States. Jesus Christ and his Church reigns supreme. While it is pretty far fetched today, a Catholic should still desire for a Catholic Confessional State, and should applaud any advance of so called “theocratic evil”, as long as that “theocratic evil” is advancing Catholicism, the one true religion.

But I agree with you on that point. Sometimes we take this whole persecution idea too far
We’re not persecuted, thank God, yet.

 

[mikekle]

It doesn’t matter that we live in the United States. Jesus Christ and his Church reigns supreme. While it is pretty far fetched today, a Catholic should still desire for a Catholic Confessional State, and should applaud any advance of so called “theocratic evil”, as long as that “theocratic evil” is advancing Catholicism, the one true religion.

But I agree with you on that point. Sometimes we take this whole persecution idea too far
We’re not persecuted, thank God, yet.

Eventually Christianity will be illegal in the US, the bible tells us people WILL be persecuted, tortured and killed because of him, its foolish to think the US is somehow exempt from any of this…it will probably be the most severe here at some point!

 

[theCrow]

Eventually Christianity will be illegal in the US, the bible tells us people WILL be persecuted, tortured and killed because of him, its foolish to think the US is somehow exempt from any of this…it will probably be the most severe here at some point!

Whoa Whoa, hold on there. This is a very scary alarmist perspective. It’s called the 1st Amendment and there is NO WAY Christianity will become illegal. Where does the Bible exactly say you will be persecuted, tortured and killed?? Any what in your opinion, does “resist” exactly mean?

Shall we pick up arms and revolt when Gay Marriage becomes legal in all 50 states. shaking my head

Peace my brother.

Don’t Panic.

 

[Tigg]

Whoa Whoa, hold on there. This is a very scary alarmist perspective. It’s called the 1st Amendment and there is NO WAY Christianity will become illegal.

Don’t Panic.

Do you honestly believe that this government will be stopped now by a little thing called the 1st Amendment?

 

[Dawnia]

Whoa Whoa, hold on there. This is a very scary alarmist perspective. It’s called the 1st Amendment and there is NO WAY Christianity will become illegal. Where does the Bible exactly say you will be persecuted, tortured and killed?? Any what in your opinion, does “resist” exactly mean?

Shall we pick up arms and revolt when Gay Marriage becomes legal in all 50 states. shaking my head

Peace my brother.

Don’t Panic.

You apparently haven’t heard to the call to scrap the religious part of the 1st Amendment because “religion has no part in the modern world” and “Religion shouldn’t get special treatment” and my favorite “because the Church shouldn’t be telling the State what to do.”

 

[JimG]

Do you honestly believe that this government will be stopped now by a little thing called the 1st Amendment?

It sure didn’t stop the HHS from trying to take away the religious liberty of the Little Sisters of the Poor along with many others.

 

[ReConverted]

You apparently haven’t heard to the call to scrap the religious part of the 1st Amendment because “religion has no part in the modern world”

Sources, please?

 

[ReConverted]

It doesn’t matter that we live in the United States. Jesus Christ and his Church reigns supreme. While it is pretty far fetched today, a Catholic should still desire for a Catholic Confessional State, and should applaud any advance of so called “theocratic evil”, as long as that “theocratic evil” is advancing Catholicism, the one true religion.

But I agree with you on that point. Sometimes we take this whole persecution idea too far
We’re not persecuted, thank God, yet.

A Catholic confessional state? Are you kidding me? That hasn’t worked out well in the past.

As far as theocratic evil, may I submit than one hour on the internet researching dominionist influence will be eye opening, in particular, R.J. Rushdoony, the father of dominionist theology, as well as Gary North. The “New Apostolic Reformation” is a group gaining wide acceptance among evangelicals. One of their teachings is that Apostles exist today, and another that God’s revelation can be added to. You read that right. apologeticsindex.org/2977-new-apostolic-reformation-overview

 

[ReConverted]

I ask folks to read this entire article from the founder of the New Apostolic Reformation’s own pen:

charismanews.com/opinion/31851-the-new-apostolic-reformation-is-not-a-cult

Some excerpts:

“Extra-biblical revelation. Some object to the notion that God communicates directly with us, supposing that everything that God wanted to reveal He revealed in the Bible. This cannot be true, however, because there is nothing in the Bible that says it has 66 books. It actually took God a couple of hundred years to reveal to the church which writings should be included in the Bible and which should not. That is extra-biblical revelation. Even so, Catholics and Protestants still disagree on the number. Beyond that, I believe that prayer is two way, we speak to God and expect Him to speak with us. We can hear God’s voice. He also reveals new things to prophets as we have seen. The one major rule governing any new revelation from God is that it cannot contradict what has already been written in the Bible. It may supplement it, however.”

"Dominionism. This refers to the desire that some of my friends and I have to follow Jesus and do what He wants. One of the things He does want He taught us to pray for in the Lord’s Prayer: “Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” This means that we do our best to see that what we know is characteristic of heaven work its way into the warp and woof of our society here on earth. Think of heaven: no injustice, no poverty, righteousness, peace, prosperity, no disease, love, no corruption, no crime, no misery, no racism, and I could go on. Wouldn’t you like your city to display those characteristics?

But where does dominion come in? On the first page of the Bible, God told Adam and Eve to “fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, etc.” (Genesis 1:28). Adam, Eve, and the whole human race were to take dominion over the rest of creation, but Satan entered the picture, succeeded in usurping Adam’s dominion for himself and became what Jesus calls “the ruler of this world” (John 14:30). When Jesus came, He brought the kingdom of God and He expects His kingdom-minded people to take whatever action is needed to push back the long-standing kingdom of Satan and bring the peace and prosperity of His kingdom here on earth. This is what we mean by dominionism."

"Apostolic governance. As I mentioned before, this is probably the most radical change. I take literally St. Paul’s words that Jesus, at His ascension into heaven, “gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry” (Ephesians 4:11-12). Most of traditional Christianity accepts evangelists, pastors, and teachers, but not apostles and prophets. I think that all five are given to be active in churches today. In fact, St. Paul goes on to say, “And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers…” (1 Corinthians 12:28). This does not describe a hierarchy, but a divine order. Apostles are first in that order.

I strongly object to journalists using the adjective “self-appointed” or “self-declared” when referring to apostles. No true apostle is self-appointed. First of all, they are gifted by God for that ministry. Secondly, the gift and its fruit are recognized by peers and the apostle is “set in” or “commissioned” to the office of apostle by other respected and qualified leaders."

 

[ReConverted]

Please give this article a thorough read. Thank you!

From the NAR’s founder:

charismanews.com/opinion/31851-the-new-apostolic-reformation-is-not-a-cult

"What Is the NAR?
The NAR is definitely not a cult. Those who affiliate with it believe the Apostles’ Creed and all the standard classic statements of Christian doctrine. It will surprise some to know that the NAR embraces the largest non-Catholic segment of world Christianity. It is also the fastest growing segment, the only segment of Christianity currently growing faster than the world population and faster than Islam. Christianity is booming now in the Global South which includes sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America, and large parts of Asia. Most of the new churches in the Global South, even including many which belong to denominations, would comfortably fit the NAR template.

The NAR represents the most radical change in the way of doing church since the Protestant Reformation. This is not a doctrinal change. We adhere to the major tenets of the Reformation: the authority of Scripture, justification by faith, and the priesthood of all believers. But the quality of church life, the governance of the church, the worship, the theology of prayer, the missional goals, the optimistic vision for the future, and other features, constitute quite a change from traditional Protestantism."

 

[FollowChrist34]

You apparently haven’t heard to the call to scrap the religious part of the 1st Amendment because “religion has no part in the modern world” and “Religion shouldn’t get special treatment” and my favorite “because the Church shouldn’t be telling the State what to do.”

Yes, exactly. The State is moving towards a completely defined set of secular values, including “marriage equality,” abortion and birth control “rights.” To not adhere to this set of values is to oppose society. The right to practice religious values is being curtailed, inch by inch. It took a legal battle all the way to the Supreme Court to allow US citizens who are Christians and oppose abortive birth control to conduct themselves in accordance with the demands of their faith and conscience. Congress then attempted to write in laws that would circumvent the Supreme Court decision. If you don’t think Christians are in a battle here, you’re on another planet. These secularists have the commitment, small-mindedness and ferocity of Puritans. They’ll be whipping us down the street (uh, or firing us from our jobs) any day now…

 

[Dawnia]

Sources, please?

See: Twitter, Facebook, HuffPo comments, other libby media sites, etc.

 

[ReConverted]

See: Twitter, Facebook, HuffPo comments, other libby media sites, etc.

Some specifics, please? Or is this just “You KNOW they’re out to get us” paranoia?

 

[SuperLuigi]

Do you mean that Western Europe needs more Caucasians to battle nefarious forces?

My comment wasn’t even about Western Europe; it was about Russia. Socieities with low TFR’s have unstable population dynamics.

Racism find = fail. npatrol:

:tiphat: