U.S. court upholds right of man to sue the Vatican over abuse

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Raising the hopes of abuse victims across the U.S., a federal appeals court ruling has brought a 59-year-old man one step closer to suing the Vatican for abuse he allegedly suffered at the hands of a Roman Catholic priest.

In a decision issued Tuesday, a three-judge panel from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the man who says he was molested in the 1960s by a religious-order priest at a Catholic school in Oregon can pursue a lawsuit against the Holy See because the priest allegedly committed the abuse while serving in a religious capacity.

Lawyers for the victim hailed the judges’ ruling as a watershed moment for victims of clergy abuse who for decades have wanted to hold the Catholic hierarchy accountable for protecting abusive priests. A lawyer for the Holy See commended the ruling for acknowledging the Vatican’s decentralized structure…

chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-sue-the-vatican_05mar05,0,6220481.story
 
irishpatrick said:
Raising the hopes of abuse victims across the U.S., a federal appeals court ruling has brought a 59-year-old man one step closer to suing the Vatican for abuse he allegedly suffered at the hands of a Roman Catholic priest.

In a decision issued Tuesday, a three-judge panel from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the man who says he was molested in the 1960s by a religious-order priest at a Catholic school in Oregon can pursue a lawsuit against the Holy See because the priest allegedly committed the abuse while serving in a religious capacity.

Lawyers for the victim hailed the judges’ ruling as a watershed moment for victims of clergy abuse who for decades have wanted to hold the Catholic hierarchy accountable for protecting abusive priests. A lawyer for the Holy See commended the ruling for acknowledging the Vatican’s decentralized structure…

chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-sue-the-vatican_05mar05,0,6220481.story
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Should we expect anything but from the Ninth Circus Court?🤷

This quote…

“The fact that the United States courts have opened this opportunity in this case sets the standard for the whole world that there really can be justice for one victim even though he’s a victim of one powerful organization,” Hamilton said.

is probably the most anti-Catholic thing I will read today… go figure…

Another interesting outcome might be the actions taken agains non-Catholic faith communities. They have a hugh list of convictions of their pastors… much more so that the Catholic Church… and they are actually hired individuals, and employees of their congregation. Yep, could be a death-knell of sorts for them.

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Secular progressives are having a field day and the 9th Circuit is totally acting in character.
 
MrS said:
Should we expect anything but from the Ninth Circus Court?🤷
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You know, after reading the title of the thread, my first thought is that the ruling may have come from the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. Its sad, and its the wrong decision.
the article:
Some legal scholars say the rulings are not the last word and expect the 9th Circuit Court’s ruling may not be upheld.

But G. Robert Blakey, professor of law at the University of Notre Dame, said that if the plaintiff can prove that the priest was an employee of the Vatican, the ruling will stand.
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But that is just it, the priest was not an employee of the Vatican. Fortunately, the ruling recognized the Catholic Church’s decentralized structure, which lays the groundwork for overturning the decision.
 
I do not know how anyone could reasonbly conclude that a Priest in the United States is an employee of the Vatican. I also do not know how a person here can sue a soverign state.
 
irishpatrick said:
I do not know how anyone could reasonbly conclude that a Priest in the United States is an employee of the Vatican. I also do not know how a person here can sue a soverign state.
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but but but but… BHO has introduced that mantra YES I CAN

And his own agenda is every bit an attack on Catholicism and the moral standards he rejects and finds offensive to his pro-death agenda.

Good thing I already read the book, and know how the important story ends… we win… in spite of BHO saying “I won”

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MrS said:
but but but but… BHO has introduced that mantra YES I CAN

And his own agenda is every bit an attack on Catholicism and the moral standards he rejects and finds offensive to his pro-death agenda.

Good thing I already read the book, and know how the important story ends… we win… in spite of BHO saying “I won”

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Yes, I agree completely, yet the near-term future looks rough for Catholics and the Church.
 
I didn’t read the whole article, so I don’t know if this was addressed, but, since the abuse happened in the 60s, the abuser is likely dead, and both Popes from the 60s are dead. How in the world is his current Holiness Benedict XVI responsible for what happened to this gentleman? And, like someone else mentioned, there’s also the question of being able to sue a sovereign nation, that could open a big can of worms (can we sue France for being so rude to Americans? Or, seriously, Iran for allegedly supplyling weapons to Al Queda to kill Amercians in Iraq, or is only the Vatican, and its so called “treasures” up for grabs?)

Honestly, I’m beginning to think that if a nonbaptized atheist pedophile grabbed a kid and molested him behind some bushes, and those bushes happened to be on the property of a Catholic church, the victim (with the help of SNAP, of course :rolleyes:) would sue the Catholic Church!

I’m with the pp, the only consolation is that we already know the end of the story, we win.

In Christ,

Ellen
 
ALLGIRLS said:
I didn’t read the whole article, so I don’t know if this was addressed, but, since the abuse happened in the 60s, the abuser is likely dead, and both Popes from the 60s are dead. How in the world is his current Holiness Benedict XVI responsible for what happened to this gentleman? And, like someone else mentioned, there’s also the question of being able to sue a sovereign nation, that could open a big can of worms (can we sue France for being so rude to Americans? Or, seriously, Iran for allegedly supplyling weapons to Al Queda to kill Amercians in Iraq, or is only the Vatican, and its so called “treasures” up for grabs?)

Honestly, I’m beginning to think that if a nonbaptized atheist pedophile grabbed a kid and molested him behind some bushes, and those bushes happened to be on the property of a Catholic church, the victim (with the help of SNAP, of course :rolleyes:) would sue the Catholic Church!

I’m with the pp, the only consolation is that we already know the end of the story, we win.

In Christ,

Ellen
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The the things you say could easily come from a cheesy novel, yet sadly they are true in our current world.
 
American citizens are, of course, welcome to sue foreign states and do so all the time. Getting those states to abide by the results of an action by an American court is another matter and usually takes intervention by the American government (such as seizure of property belonging to the foreign government or freezing assets in American banks).

I am not clear that is relevant here. I doubt they are suing the state of Vatican City. My guess is that the plantiffs are going to claim that just as the dioceses were responsible for the abusive behavior of their priests WHEN THEY KNEW ABOUT IT and did nothing significant to protect their parishoners, so too, IF THE VATICAN KNEW what was going on within the dioceses under their control, then they too can be held liable.

Obviously it is not B16 as a person who is being sued. The plantiffs would like to have the courts see the Catholic Church as if it were a multi-national with the parent company based in Vatican City/Rome with either branches of that company or subsidiaries of that company operating in the US. I have no idea how successful that can be, but obviously successful enough to have this case move forward to the next level.

salaam.
 
Not at all surprising from the 9th Circus.

Wow! Does this mean we will be able to sue the federal govt. for all the child molesting public school teachers that have been convicted all over this country? The Fed. govt. provides money to every public school…so they are employees, right? They should have know, right? They should have stopped it, right? :rolleyes:

Now your talking a big cash cow!
 
Even in their ruling they admitted they ignored the fact that the Vatican is a sovereign nation and, as such, cannot be the target of a lawsuit. :whacky:

Is it just me, or does anyone here think this will be heard by the Supreme Court of the US? If it is heard, I think SCOTUS will rule like they do with (I believe) 80% of the other rulings from the 9th Circuit Court and will overturn this ruling.
 
At this point (due to its unjust/immoral rulings and the threatening of a sovereign nation) , should the Catholic Church (including the laity) even recognize the authority of the courts in the US?
 
bellesjoy said:
Not at all surprising from the 9th Circus.

Wow! Does this mean we will be able to sue the federal govt. for all the child molesting public school teachers that have been convicted all over this country? The Fed. govt. provides money to every public school…so they are employees, right? They should have know, right? They should have stopped it, right?
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if they knew in advance that the person was abusive or if they covered up a history of abuse and put the person back in positions where they could abuse again…yes, you have a case against the school district. there is no ability of the federal govt to exert direct oversight or control over local school districts, but if there were, and you could show the federal did know what was going on and did nothing…then you could sue them too.
rpp said:
Even in their ruling they admitted they ignored the fact that the Vatican is a sovereign nation and, as such, cannot be the target of a lawsuit.
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I am not sure where the idea is coming from that you cannot sue a sovereign state. US citizens have wrongful-death lawsuits in progress at this time, for instance, against Iran for their involvement in the deaths of family members, etc. One can also think of the lawsuit against Libya for their support of terrorist attacks, which was ultimately settled in 2006. So it is definitely possible to sue a sovereign state.

That said, I am not clear that is relevant here, since I don’t think anyone is interested in suing Vatican City as a state. They are interested in suing the people who are in charge of priests who abused while acting on behalf of the Church as a widespread (in this case) religious institution (not on behalf of a state player).

It would be no different than suing Make-Believe-Widget Co. of Nowhere, Nizania because it had taken no steps to protect its customers in the US from employees it knew were dangerous. It being based in a foreign country is not a great obstacle to it being the object of a lawsuit in an American court.

Obviously the Vatican is going to try and show that this priest was not an employee of the Vatican in that sense.

I would also note that the 9th is not the first to come to this conclusion that the Vatican can be sued…the 6th also allowed a similar lawsuit against the Vatican to proceed last year, as the op’s link mentions.

as for the prosecutor who thinks that the Pope is going to be deposed for this case…that seems silly and extremely unlikely to happen.

salaam.
 
Sue away Mr. Attoneys. I doubt if the Vatican shows up; so how will you collect your 30%?
 
It’s 30%. Here in California, some of these guys had multiple clients and were able to walk away with millions. They didn’t even have to go to court! The bishop was concerned that all the money set asided would be swallowed up by the first few cases and there would be nothing left in the end; so the diocese settled out of court. Not bad for just shooting your mouth in a couple of tv news interviews.
 
Catholic1954 said:
It’s 30%. Here in California, some of these guys had multiple clients and were able to walk away with millions. They didn’t even have to go to court! The bishop was concerned that all the money set asided would be swallowed up by the first few cases and there would be nothing left in the end; so the diocese settled out of court. Not bad for just shooting your mouth in a couple of tv news interviews.
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True, yet they place their souls at risk if they are suing just to get money.
 
Badaliyyah said:
if they knew in advance that the person was abusive or if they covered up a history of abuse and put the person back in positions where they could abuse again…yes, you have a case against the school district. there is no ability of the federal govt to exert direct oversight or control over local school districts, but if there were, and you could show the federal did know what was going on and did nothing…then you could sue them too. quote]

Badaliyyah: The :rolleyes: means sarcasim. The Vatican has as much control over local parishes as the fed.govt. has in local schools…yet…
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