Adrift? I don’t think they are afloat enough.They never did anything about Spong the heretic, nor Pike the gnostic spiritualist before him! That church has completely lost it’s moorings, and is shamefully adrift.
Out of curiosity I went to hear Spong when he was in town speaking at some sort of interfaith dialogue at our local synagogue. My neighbor, a Methodist, really wanted to go. I knew pretty much what everyone has said about him, but I went in with an open mind, or maybe just to be humored. Most of what he said was just ludicrous. I did find it interesting that he told the group that after the Crucifixion the early “Christians” were Jewish and that the Church came from Jewish traditions. Sad thing, people didn’t seem to know that in the audience.They never did anything about Spong the heretic, nor Pike the gnostic spiritualist before him! That church has completely lost it’s moorings, and is shamefully adrift.
The Episcopal Church, however appealing in some ways, is not the one true Church (and has never claimed to be). The Lord has simply let that church go her gay and goofy way.They never did anything about Spong the heretic, nor Pike the gnostic spiritualist before him! That church has completely lost it’s moorings, and is shamefully adrift.
The Episcopal Church, however appealing in some ways, is not the one true Church (and has never claimed to be). The Lord has simply let that church go her gay and goofy way.Adrift? I don’t think they are afloat enough.
Hopefully those who might otherwise sail home might now cut their moorings with the Titanic.
The chickens come home to roost. When the Church of England came into being the nobility and lesser nobility sacked the Catholic properties, the monasteries and convents, etc. Now those who are being driven out of this heresy will have to leave behind the real estate.One old priest once remarked about such: “Embrace every heresy in history, fornicate on the altar itself, but don’t quit the club! And if you dare to quit the club, don’t touch the church property.”
This, I think is what they are really afraid of–that the Episcopal Diocese of Pittsburgh will try to take the property with it were it to leave.
There have been high level ecumenical talks going on with the Anglicans and Episcopals for decades. The ultimate goal was reunification. All the while they got nuttier. There will be no reunification. You are right. This is the Titanic. The band plays and the hull is breached. Some geton lifeboats, but this ship is headed for the bottom.Adrift? I don’t think they are afloat enough.
Hopefully those who might otherwise sail home might now cut their moorings with the Titanic.
A Catholic bishop was visiting one of his priests in the hospital when the Anglicans decided to ordain women. The bishop lamented to the priest that he was upset over this decision by the Anglicans to ordain women, because it would hinder efforts to reunify. The sick priest at up and said, “They can’t ordain men, can they”?This is not just a part of the fission of the US Episcopal Church. It is a reflection of the coming apart of the entire Anglican Communion.
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Gerry
And I’m afraid to say that it is far from over. It was pure bedlam when we left the Episcopal church last fall and took our priest with us. The last vestry meeting was hell with many tears shed. Unfortunately we are still worshipping in a school cafeteria as we had no chance at fighting for the parish property.One old priest once remarked about such: “Embrace every heresy in history, fornicate on the altar itself, but don’t quit the club! And if you dare to quit the club, don’t touch the church property.”
This, I think is what they are really afraid of–that the Episcopal Diocese of Pittsburgh will try to take the property with it were it to leave.
Yes, I’ve never understood those who stayed while the “clergy” denied the Resurection from the pulpit, but fled once they “ordained” women.A Catholic bishop was visiting one of his priests in the hospital when the Anglicans decided to ordain women. The bishop lamented to the priest that he was upset over this decision by the Anglicans to ordain women, because it would hinder efforts to reunify. The sick priest at up and said, “They can’t ordain men, can they”?
Another bishop was visiting one of his priests and the priest scolded him for appearing on a discussion panel with several Episcopal bishops, with one being a woman. The priest said that by doing so it implied that this woman was a real bishop. The bishop told his priest, that she was as much a bishop as the rest of them.
So the Anglican/Episcopals are coming apart at the seams, but they are really only playing make believe. They are make believe priests and bishops with all the trappings and robes and stoles. Shori is a disgrace, but she is recognized by the majority as legitimate. The Titanic heads for the bottom and the wreckage remains afloat in flotsam and jettsam. It is tragic, but the die was cast centuries ago. Now they reap what was sown. Pray for the souls who need a true home.
I remember reading about the first female Anglican ordinations. They went through all the motions of high Anglican ceremony and when it was over one of the Anglican priests who was on their altar in full vestments put his hands on the head of one of the women and shouted that she would burn in hell for all enternity. I don’t know what Canterbury did with him, but guess he went looking for work. There were pictures of this in the secular papers.Yes, I’ve never understood those who stayed while the “clergy” denied the Resurection from the pulpit, but fled once they “ordained” women.
I remember one priestess complaining about her opponent on the show not accepting that her call was just as valid as his. He replied “many are called but few are chosen.”
The only thing odder is the belief that several fake lines of Apostlic succession can make a valid bishop.
Grand-pere,I remember reading about the first female Anglican ordinations. They went through all the motions of high Anglican ceremony and when it was over one of the Anglican priests who was on their altar in full vestments put his hands on the head of one of the women and shouted that she would burn in hell for all enternity. I don’t know what Canterbury did with him, but guess he went looking for work. There were pictures of this in the secular papers.
Ordaining women was not the beginning of their problem. Making Henry the head of their church was. So now they defrocked one of their bishops. But he is no more a bishop than Katharine Shori or Gene Robinson. This is a mockery of religion. Its all a pretense that is being unmasked and a great tragedy that has taken four centuries to unfold.
Because the occasional heretical priest does not constitute a reason for separation. Official heretical action arguably does. (Note: I don’t consider the ordination of women heretical, but obviously many folks disagree with me.)Yes, I’ve never understood those who stayed while the “clergy” denied the Resurection from the pulpit, but fled once they “ordained” women.
Not to stir the pot from the bottom, but why not?Because the occasional heretical priest does not constitute a reason for separation. Official heretical action arguably does. (Note: I don’t consider the ordination of women heretical, but obviously many folks disagree with me.)
Edwin
Heretical is not the first word I would use. That would be “impossible”.Not to stir the pot from the bottom, but why not?
Because it isn’t.Not to stir the pot from the bottom, but why not?
I don’t agree with your viewpoints here. The Anglican Communion is not coming apart. Bishop Duncan is not outside of Anglican orders and as much as you will deny it, the RCC and others delight in the turmoil going on inside the Communion. Better be careful what you wish for.This is not just a part of the fission of the US Episcopal Church. It is a reflection of the coming apart of the entire Anglican Communion.
In the US now, there are “Anglicans” who claim communion with Canterbury who acknowledge episcopal direction by Anglican bishops from the Anglican Churches of the US, Nigeria, Kenya, Rwanda, and the Southern Cone (South America).
Here in this part of BC Canada, there are “Anglicans” under Anglican bishops from Canada, Rwanda, and the Southern Cone.
These are not so-called “continuing” communities - those who claim to be Anglican, but are not in communion with Canterbury. They all assert claims of communion with Canterbury, through the respective national churches of their bishops. However, the respective Canadian and US national Anglican Churches deny the validity of the claims. These national churches are themselves, in some large parts, not recognized by other Anglican national churches, like Nigeria (apx. 40 million members out of 77 million). These national churches, like Nigeria, do, though, recognize the American and Canadian Anglicans who are communion members through other national churches.
Episcopal Bishop Duncan is recognized as a Bishop of the Anglican Church of the Southern Cone, irrespective of the action of the US Episcopal Church, who would in turn now argue he is not in Anglican orders at all.
There is, in addition, various associations, some of which link these extra-national Anglicans with Continuing communities, who are not in communion with Canterbury.
It is very messy, and flying apart into pieces. It’s no cause for joy among Christians, because its most likely effect will be indifference to the faith, not conversion, by Anglicans who are confused, fed up, or both. The national churches are shrinking fast.
Prayer is indicated. No one wants any Christian to become indifferent to that part of the truth of the faith they may possess.
Gerry