U.S.: Franciscans side with the LCWR

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Thank you very much for your clarifications, Br. JR. I also got a vague feeling from actually reading the quotes that the article title was misleading. It is heartening and reassuring and altogether unsurprising that the Franciscans have taken this position.
The article title is very misleading. There is nothing here that indicates that they lend support to anything that the LCWR has done or failed to do. They are simply coming to stand by the side of the underdog, which is typical of Franciscans. They were very careful not to comment of the specific “wrongdoings” of the LCWR. That would place the Franciscans in a position of conflict with the Holy See. The OFM leadership would never join forces to challenge the Holy See on a moral or doctrinal teaching. It’s important to note how the statement is worded. They say that it’s a matter of concern. They are not asking for an explanation of from the CDF. St. Francis always said that the faithful could express concerns, but had no right to ask for explanations.

It’s sort of like saying, “If they’ve done something wrong, sit down and discuss it as required by law, don’t stone them.”

The only part of what the Franciscans have said or done that can be debated is whether or not the CDF overreacted. I don’t believe that we’ll ever get a consensus on that point.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
But this group is.
lcwr.org/
What’s your point? Ever since I’ve been on this forum, I have perceived that you have an innate hatred for religious and always seem to find a way to point to the negatives. We know that the LCWR is in trouble. Whether they are dying out or not, it’s up to the Holy Spirit to decide, not to us. It is certainly not for us to feel or demonstrate any sign of joy that they are in trouble. It’s very sad to watch.

Those of us who love religious life are saddened by what is happening at the LCWR. There are many great women and holy women in those religious communities associated with the LCWR. There are many women there to whom we owe a great deal. Fro their sake, we pray that this situation will strengthen their communities as they proceed to discern what to do next. We hope and pray that many young women will look at these great women who did so much for us and will want to walk in their footsteps. If these issues can be resolved, this may be possible. If they cannot be resolved, religious communities always have the option to withdraw their membership. The LCWR is not a binding institute to which all religious communities of women must belong. They can form other bodies to share their resources and to support each other. This is where we should be focusing our prayer and encouragement, not on whether they’re dying or not.

God does not delight if broadcasting the weaknesses and death of his children. He delights in raising them up when they are fallen.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
What I want to know is why there was felt the need to express “solidarity with the sisters” by anyone in the first place. Where, in fact, was support for the sisters and their apostolates ever questioned?

To me it is very silly for there to be this mentality of equating the LCWR with the individual congregations.

Isn’t this letter and other things like it really a bit pointless?
 
What I want to know is why there was felt the need to express “solidarity with the sisters” by anyone in the first place. Where, in fact, was support for the sisters and their apostolates ever questioned?

To me it is very silly for there to be this mentality of equating the LCWR with the individual congregations.

Isn’t this letter and other things like it really a bit pointless?
I think you misread the article. One of us has, because it is confusing as presented.
The organisation sent an open letter, dated 31 May, to Rome which is now being published across U.S. and foreign media.
“We write, too, as a public sign of our solidarity with you as you endure this very difficult moment. We are privileged to share with you the journey of religious life. Like you, we strive in all that we do to build up the People of God.”
If the letter is indeed addressed to Rome, then the “you” to whom they refer is Rome, the CDF; not the LCWR. However, their wording is very puzzling if it is not the LCWR they are addressing. So I am just a bit confused.

EDIT: I located another article that says the letter is addressed to the LCWR, not to Rome. So the Vatican Insider is wildly inaccurate. Linky: georgiabulletin.org/world/2012/06/08/NEWS-4/
 
What I want to know is why there was felt the need to express “solidarity with the sisters” by anyone in the first place. Where, in fact, was support for the sisters and their apostolates ever questioned?

To me it is very silly for there to be this mentality of equating the LCWR with the individual congregations.

Isn’t this letter and other things like it really a bit pointless?
Premature maybe, pointless, not really. The letter says what the Church expects Franciscans to say. The Church would be disappointed if through this whole situation the Observants did not say anything for the underdog. That’s the reason for their existence in the first place. The point is that other than question whether or not the CDF’s reaction is over the top, which is a matter of opinion for which there is no conclusion, at this point the law has not been violated.

The law would be violated if the bishops attempting to reinvent the LCWR. Then there is ground for serious concern. If that were to happen, it would be the bishops who would be under investigation. But that’s not what has happened here. So far we have one bishop, serving as the Holy See’s delegate being asked to oversee the reconstruction of the LCWR.

There is reason for other religious to express their concern to the sisters and their support in the hope that all of this will work out for their good. That makes this letter worthwhile. The first to express such sentiments must always be the Friars Minor. The custom has been that no other religious community ever moves first on this kind of case until the Franciscans (OFM) speak. It’s a matter of courtesy to them, but you should know this, being steeped in tradition.

Personally, I believe that it was too early. The president of the LCWR and one of the other sisters are meeting with Cardinal Levada next week and we don’t know what is going to come out of that meeting. It may be something that’s agreeable to all parties, in which case, the letter would have not been necessary.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
I think you misread the article. One of us has, because it is confusing as presented.

If the letter is indeed addressed to Rome, then the “you” to whom they refer is Rome, the CDF; not the LCWR. However, their wording is very puzzling if it is not the LCWR they are addressing. So I am just a bit confused.

EDIT: I located another article that says the letter is addressed to the LCWR, not to Rome. So the Vatican Insider is wildly inaccurate. Linky: georgiabulletin.org/world/2012/06/08/NEWS-4/
The letter is addressed to the LCWR, but my guess is that a copy is being sent to Rome. It would make perfect sense. First of all, the superior general has to be informed of such a letter. Provincial Ministers cannot act without informing the General about what they are doing. Secondly, out of courtesy to the Holy See, it is appropriate that the CDF learn about this letter directly from the Franciscans, not from the press. Unfortunately, that does not always happen. But one tries to make it happen that way. All it takes is for one sister to say, “We received this letter from the Friars Minor,” before Rome’s copy reaches them and the press runs with it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
This is just another crack in the dike that leads me to beleive schism is inevitable. The battle lines are being drawn between those who will stand on the Teachings and direction of Holy Mother Church, and those who, like the protestants, want to make it up as they, and the world, goes along. We were warned of this numerous times.

Pray for the Holy Father as He continues to right the ship.
There is already a de facto schism and sadly, those infected with corruption show no signs of repentance. Rome acts slowly and is merciful, but will be decisive when the Holy Spirit directs.
 
Slow down. How do you get schism out of this letter?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
Premature maybe, pointless, not really. T**he letter says what the Church expects Franciscans to say. ** The Church would be disappointed if through this whole situation the Observants did not say anything for the underdog. That’s the reason for their existence in the first place.

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
Br. Jr, can you go a little bit into what the above means?

Let’s say I know a married couple and they are in the middle of some tough times. Both have stated their case to me because we are friends (never mind that they shouldn’t be discussing their business with me). So since we are both friends I try to stay impartial.

If the only thing I say is, “Bob, do you think it’s possible that sometimes you may react a little harshly with Jane I’m just asking.?”. I say this in front of others and it is the only comment I make.

I don’t then say, “Jane, do you think you might be over sensitive sometimes?”

If my only comment is to Bob, does that not imply that I’m siding with Jane? Is it a good idea for me to get involved? Even if technically I know that Bob tends to get rough?

Is it a good idea for the OFM to publicly question the Bishops even if technically down the road, the bishops will and should not have any authority?

And I know it is a sticky situation because of solidarity of course, but do you see what I’m saying?
 
Slow down. How do you get schism out of this letter?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
I am speaking more of a spiritual schism and cancer that is occurring deep within the hearts of Catholics, both lay and ordained. My heart is broken over our fractured Church with lines being drawn over liberal and conservative politics, and between those obedient to the Church and those in rebellion. May God have mercy on us all. I only know how much I love the Catholic Church and my faith!
 
Having read the open letter, I question the competency (in this matter) of those leaders to publically express concern, “that the tone and direction set forth in the Doctrinal Assessment of LCWR are excessive, given the evidence raised.”
 
See, this is why I always decline subscriptions offers from the St. Anthony Messenger.
I was subscribed for a few years after I returned to regular Mass attendance and the sacraments. Then I noticed a few…well, almost new agey articles. I probably should have commented but instead I let my subscription lapse. Come to think of it, at least one of those articles dealt with new agey nuns.

This was several years ago so I have no idea if they’ve had any more of those type of articles.

I was educated in the '50s by nuns who wore habits. I know what they were like. 🙂
 
Br. Jr, can you go a little bit into what the above means?

Let’s say I know a married couple and they are in the middle of some tough times. Both have stated their case to me because we are friends (never mind that they shouldn’t be discussing their business with me). So since we are both friends I try to stay impartial.

If the only thing I say is, “Bob, do you think it’s possible that sometimes you may react a little harshly with Jane I’m just asking.?”. I say this in front of others and it is the only comment I make.

I don’t then say, “Jane, do you think you might be over sensitive sometimes?”

If my only comment is to Bob, does that not imply that I’m siding with Jane? Is it a good idea for me to get involved? Even if technically I know that Bob tends to get rough?

Is it a good idea for the OFM to publicly question the Bishops even if technically down the road, the bishops will and should not have any authority?

And I know it is a sticky situation because of solidarity of course, but do you see what I’m saying?
The marriage situation requires different methodology. In that situation, one should try to be a mediator, if one is invited into the problem. A mediator tries to help both sides see the other side’s point of view.

In the case of the Observants, they are not questioning the bishops. That’s not what the letter says. The letter makes two points.
  1. It expresses concern that the CDF’s reaction may be excessive. That’s not questioning whether or not the CDF has authority or implying any kind of support for the sister’s errors. It’s an opinion, which anyone is entitled to have, albeit that I still say that it’s too early for an opinion.
  2. The second message in the letter is a reminder to everyone, sisters and CDF that there are laws that cannot be broken. That being that bishops have no authority over religious. Again, they’re not questioning the bishops, because there is nothing to question. Religious can tell the bishops to go home and eat a hamburger at any time. The only bishop who can get involved in the affairs of religious is the Holy Father, unless the community is of diocesan right. In that case, the only bishop who can become involved is the bishop of the home diocese. Again, I feel that this reminder is premature, since no one has crossed that line. But there is nothing wrong with it. It is the law.
Having read the open letter, ** I question the competency** (in this matter) of those leaders to publically express concern, “that the tone and direction set forth in the Doctrinal Assessment of LCWR are excessive, given the evidence raised.”
The actually have more competency than bishops in this case.
  1. Franciscan Ministers Provincial are ordinaries equal to bishops in authority and in training
  2. They are ordinaries over religious, which gives them inside knowledge as to how religious life works, knowledge that a bishop would not have unless he’s a religious.
  3. They are all theologians.
  4. When it comes to religious, Franciscan major superiors of are equal authority to the bishops of the CDF. These ministers answer only to their superior general who answers to the pope.
If they believe that the bishops are overstepping their authority in relation to their sisters, they have every right to speak up. Remember, there are congregations of Franciscan Sisters affected here. Franciscan women have no voice of their own, unless they’re nuns. Sisters are not nuns. Therefore, the friars are going to be very protective of them, because only the friars have a voice in the Vatican. The sisters do not. They are simply women religious of simple vows.

One can certainly disagree and say that there is nothing to be concerned about. Or one can take the position that I take, which is to wait and see how it all plays out.

From my point of view, the LCWR needs help. I don’t think that it can fix its problems alone. The problems are too big and it’s hard to do when you’re inside the barrel. They need outside help. That help must be provided within the confines of the doctrines of Trent. Trent makes it very clear that no secular is ever above a consecrated religious. The most of the bishops are secular. Trent also makes it clear that it is unjust for bishops to discipline religious, because it violates the rights of the major superior. The CDF passed another law that says that conflicts between religious and bishops must be dealt with in a council of bishops and religious superiors. This is what the Franciscans are reminding everyone about.

As long as it’s the pope’s delegate dealing with the LCWR, there is nothing to complain about, because the bishops are not getting involved. If the bishops do get involved and there is a council of bishops and superiors, there is nothing to worry about as long as the bishops remember that the superiors are their equals, not their subordinates. If they can’t reach an agreement, then the Holy Father has to break the stalemate. My position is that it’s too early to worry. Until the president of the LCWR comes back from her meeting with Cardinal Levada, we won’t know what’s going to happen next. Even then, if everything proceeds according to law, there is nothing to worry about. If the law is violated, then there are real concerns.

But competency they do have. Every male superior in solemn vows is a competent ordinary with the same authority as a bishop. He doesn’t even need to be a priest. He simply needs to be a canonically recognized provincial superior or superior general. This gives him the right to voice his opinion in any matter that concerns religious. What he cannot do is involve himself in a matter that is internal to another religious institute. That would be like involving yourself in a marriage without being invited. If he’s invited by the other institute, then he can express his opinion and concern.

Everyone is allowed to have opinions and concerns. In my mind, the question is about timing. I would disagree with my confreres on their timing, not on their competency.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
I am speaking more of a spiritual schism and cancer that is occurring deep within the hearts of Catholics, both lay and ordained. My heart is broken over our fractured Church with lines being drawn over liberal and conservative politics, and between those obedient to the Church and those in rebellion. May God have mercy on us all. I only know how much I love the Catholic Church and my faith!
That’s not the definition of a schism. As Bishop Fellay said in a recent interview, “The Church has always been in conflict.” There is nothing new here except the issues. The existence of conflict is part of the human condition.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
  1. It expresses concern that the CDF’s reaction may be excessive. That’s not questioning whether or not the CDF has authority or implying any kind of support for the sister’s errors. It’s an opinion, which anyone is entitled to have, albeit that I still say that it’s too early for an opinion.
What is the point of openly expressing concern if not to make a point? Surely this can and has been discussed among them. When one gets a letter and gets certain people to sign it, it is to make a point, no?
  1. The second message in the letter is a reminder to everyone, sisters and CDF that there are laws that cannot be broken. That being that bishops have no authority over religious. Again, they’re not questioning the bishops, because there is nothing to question. Religious can tell the bishops to go home and eat a hamburger at any time. The only bishop who can get involved in the affairs of religious is the Holy Father, unless the community is of diocesan right. In that case, the only bishop who can become involved is the bishop of the home diocese. Again, I feel that this reminder is premature, since no one has crossed that line. But there is nothing wrong with it. It is the law.
Don’t the Bishops already know that?
 
What is the point of openly expressing concern if not to make a point? Surely this can and has been discussed among them. When one gets a letter and gets certain people to sign it, it is to make a point, no?
Ahhhh my friend, that’s where you have to learn Franciscan culture. There is one point that is being made and you missed it. The letter said, “We are your brothers.” That’s the message that the Church expects to see from the Friars Minor. She would be disappointed, if they did not send this message to those who are having serious problems.

The mention of concern also makes a point. It is asking the CDF to re-examine its method. If the CDF refuses to do so, nothing is lost. If the CDF examines its methods and is comfortable, again nothing is lost. If they examine their methods and decide to tweak them, nothing is lost. Basically, the point is to do what is very Franciscan, to ask those who are doing the disciplining to do so as Francis would. There is no other reason for the existence of the Observants than to bring Francis’ message to the Church. Observe that the Observants are the only Franciscans, called The Franciscans. Do you know why?

Because they were commissioned by Pope Leo XIII, who was a Secular Franciscan, to convert the Church to Franciscanism. He changed their name from Observants to The Franciscans to make their presence very palpable.
Don’t the Bishops already know that?
We hope that bishops know this. We also hope that bishops know that dancing girls on a sanctuary are a no no.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
Ahhhh my friend, that’s where you have to learn Franciscan culture. There is one point that is being made and you missed it. The letter said, “We are your brothers.” That’s the message that the Church expects to see from the Friars Minor. She would be disappointed, if they did not send this message to those who are having serious problems.
How about we are your brothers. Please work with the CDF? 👍

Anyway, I don’t think we will see eye to eye on this. I am sensitive to that. I’ll move on. 🙂
 
The point is also being made to the media and all other observers who don’t know either the facts or the way things will/should play out.

That includes many of us on this forum.

The Franciscan love their religious sisters.

Many came over to the new world in order to specifically support the mission of the Franciscans, and were in turn dependent on the Franciscans in many ways, spiritually, sacramentally and fraternally.

No doctrinal positions have been stated in this letter, just the position that the brothers will support the sisters.

And the Holy Spirit has been working in the Franciscan family for 800 years: I’m sure he hasn’t stopped now.

And maybe in ways we can;t fathom yet, maybe the Spirit is still working right now.

Conflict isn’t necessarily bad - sometimes it can be creative (and wholly orthodox).

Franciscans are always being called back to their roots - always.
 
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