U.S. Gay Catholics Plan Special Welcome for the Pope

[pontoon]

That doesn’t work. I don’t self proclaim my sins. Gay people proclaim their homosexual lifestyle in direct opposition to the teachings of Christ. For us who have divorced and remarried we are excommunicated. Therefore can no longer enjoy all the benefits of the Catholic faith. You sir are saying you can live in sin and still reap the graces of our faith. I disagree. It is truely a sin to deny the teachings of Christ and expect to receive the graces of God.

 

[LDNCatholic]

That doesn’t work. I don’t self proclaim my sins. Gay people proclaim their homosexual lifestyle in direct opposition to the teachings of Christ.

Not all of them.

 

[LDNCatholic]

You sir are saying you can live in sin and still reap the graces of our faith. I disagree. It is truely a sin to deny the teachings of Christ and expect to receive the graces of God.

No I’m not. I’m saying that everyone sins. And all mortal sins carry the same penalty. If you have any unconfessed sins you are just as separated as gay Catholics.

Also rephrase your post please. Not all gay people proclaim their lifestyle. Some are ashamed, some remain celibate, some suffer trying to control sinful urges. They aren’t all flaming queens sleeping with any man that will have them.

 

[mlchance]

That doesn’t work. I don’t self proclaim my sins.

Irrelevant. They remain sins.

Gay people proclaim their homosexual lifestyle in direct opposition to the teachings of Christ.

Admittedly, but also irrelevant to the question, “Can a person living a homosexual lifestyle be a Catholic?”

You sir are saying you can live in sin and still reap the graces of our faith.

I said that? Please quote me with a link saying that. I’m curious.

It is truely a sin to deny the teachings of Christ and expect to receive the graces of God.

Admittedly.

I notice you never answered my question: Do you cease to be a Catholic because you too are a sinner? Or, rather, are you a Catholic in need of forgiveness?

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[revelations]

This is getting rather messy rather quickly! Before it turns into all out fisticuffs, we all have to agree on some common terms here. This is a situation fueled by a misunderstanding of church teaching, that has been misinterpreted to be a message of hate against a certain lifestyle. So, we have to define what we all mean by gay people.

To begin with we all have weaknesses and tendencies to sin. Some it’s alcohol, some it’s pornography, some stealing, some sodomy, etc. Having these tendencies is normal, and in our fallen state as weak humans it is normal to be tempted by these things. So far so good. It is the church’s teaching that we must fight these temptations so that we may remain free from sin and continue to take part in the sacramental grace bestowed upon us by Christ our Lord. Basically, we’re all sinners. So, having temptations is normal. This would be the group of people that are battling their temptations to try to be as Christ-like as possible.

Next up would be the group who has acted on their temptations. Whatever it may be, these individuals are in a state of sin. No one is judging them, every sinner is equal. We have all fallen short in the sight of God. The church teaches that you must confess these sins to restore your state of grace, but you must firmly resolve to do all you can to defeat your sins by handling your temptations. This would be the group of people who are “gay” and are currently battling their vices. This is where some might say we start to discriminate by saying that a certain lifestyle is a sin. But still, gays are welcome into the church just as much as murderers and rapists are. We are all the fallen children of Adam and Eve.

And finally, the unrepentant sinners. Those who totally don’t comprehend the teaching of the church, but still want it to change its “discriminatory” teaching against them. I think these are the ones we are all talking about: the flamboyantly homosexual. The ones who could care less about learning the teachings of the church, but want it to change just for them so they can feel good about a sinful lifestyle. This is where the claims of discrimination and “racism” (lol, i’ve heard it referred that way) come from.

There really isn’t any discrimination there. We really have to propagate this message out, that the church isn’t singling out GLBT people only as sinners, but ALL OF US! We are all dirty and stained, not worthy of life, but in Christ’s amazing mercy we are allowed to live on. People are amazed when they hear this truth, when i tell them that we are all full of sin, not just the gay people.

The problem arises because when you start to follow Christ you cease to become gay…because to be gay you have to sin. If you stop sinning, you have ceased to be gay, you simply have same sex temptations!

So in the end, gay catholics are just catholics in a state of mortal sin. Just like murdering catholics, thieving catholics, deceiving catholics, etc. One confession away from being a good catholic!

That was a long rant, but it was a long drive home, lots of time to think about all this junk! The catholic church is about love, when you get down to it. Seriously, it’s all in the catechism.

in prayer,
-revelations

 

[kristie_m]

This is getting rather messy rather quickly! Before it turns into all out fisticuffs, we all have to agree on some common terms here. This is a situation fueled by a misunderstanding of church teaching, that has been misinterpreted to be a message of hate against a certain lifestyle. So, we have to define what we all mean by gay people.

To begin with we all have weaknesses and tendencies to sin. Some it’s alcohol, some it’s pornography, some stealing, some sodomy, etc. Having these tendencies is normal, and in our fallen state as weak humans it is normal to be tempted by these things. So far so good. It is the church’s teaching that we must fight these temptations so that we may remain free from sin and continue to take part in the sacramental grace bestowed upon us by Christ our Lord. Basically, we’re all sinners. So, having temptations is normal. This would be the group of people that are battling their temptations to try to be as Christ-like as possible.

Next up would be the group who has acted on their temptations. Whatever it may be, these individuals are in a state of sin. No one is judging them, every sinner is equal. We have all fallen short in the sight of God. The church teaches that you must confess these sins to restore your state of grace, but you must firmly resolve to do all you can to defeat your sins by handling your temptations. This would be the group of people who are “gay” and are currently battling their vices. This is where some might say we start to discriminate by saying that a certain lifestyle is a sin. But still, gays are welcome into the church just as much as murderers and rapists are. We are all the fallen children of Adam and Eve.

And finally, the unrepentant sinners. Those who totally don’t comprehend the teaching of the church, but still want it to change its “discriminatory” teaching against them. I think these are the ones we are all talking about: the flamboyantly homosexual. The ones who could care less about learning the teachings of the church, but want it to change just for them so they can feel good about a sinful lifestyle. This is where the claims of discrimination and “racism” (lol, i’ve heard it referred that way) come from.

There really isn’t any discrimination there. We really have to propagate this message out, that the church isn’t singling out GLBT people only as sinners, but ALL OF US! We are all dirty and stained, not worthy of life, but in Christ’s amazing mercy we are allowed to live on. People are amazed when they hear this truth, when i tell them that we are all full of sin, not just the gay people.

The problem arises because when you start to follow Christ you cease to become gay…because to be gay you have to sin. If you stop sinning, you have ceased to be gay, you simply have same sex temptations!

So in the end, gay catholics are just catholics in a state of mortal sin. Just like murdering catholics, thieving catholics, deceiving catholics, etc. One confession away from being a good catholic!

That was a long rant, but it was a long drive home, lots of time to think about all this junk! The catholic church is about love, when you get down to it. Seriously, it’s all in the catechism.

in prayer,
-revelations

well said!

 

[thseng]

Well said, revelations!


I think a major part of the problem is that the activists that are demanding the Church change its teaching lack the most basic understanding of what that teaching is.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Come on now, gay Catholics are just like other catholics who have a tendency to sin. They should appreciate the guidance of the church. Their sin is no worse than anyone else with a disordered tendency to sin, for example pedophiles who do not act on their urges. The church is there to explain that sex is meant for unity between man and a woman to help them raise children, not for those other things. Gays are welcomed in church and I think most of them probably appreciate guidance. This group sounds really far-out.

 

[cathgal]

revelations:

The ones who could care less about learning the teachings of the church, but want it to change just for them so they can feel good about a sinful lifestyle.

Hey, that’s an understatement !

 

[rlg94086]

Come on now, gay Catholics are just like other catholics who have a tendency to sin. They should appreciate the guidance of the church. Their sin is no worse than anyone else with a disordered tendency to sin, for example pedophiles who do not act on their urges. The church is there to explain that sex is meant for unity between man and a woman to help them raise children, not for those other things. Gays are welcomed in church and I think most of them probably appreciate guidance. This group sounds really far-out.

Yep. However, someone living an active gay lifestyle should not be partaking of the Eucharist. As someone else noted, a Catholic who is using artificial birth control or fornicating is in the same persistent state of sin as someone living the gay lifestyle.

The difference is that you can’t tell that someone is using birth control and you don’t see too many pro-birth control groups protesting the Church and planning to throw ashes at the Pope.

 

[Harmony1988]

As if the Pope will bend to their dumb gesture.

Long live His Holiness Benedict XVI

 

[saylo]

if the pope celebrates Mass and the gay group disrupts now i think they will have committed a crime against the constitution.

we have the right to freedom of religion and to prevent worship is a crime against america. could land them in a federal penitentiary.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Well a physical assault would be nearly impossible as the Secret Service, I would think, would be in charge. If one of them got near the Pope they would be tackled and assaulted, if not shot on the spot.

It does not take the actual physical act to be a sin. The desire to do the deed and providing the mean to do so would also cause the act to be sinful. I believe the punishment would be the same in both the actual deed and the desire to do so.

 

[Holly3278]

Disgusting. I wish they weren’t allowed to do this.

 

[Mrs_Mac]

Hello, everyone.

As a native New Yorker and Manhattan resident, I just wanted to offer a few words of reassurance to anyone who fears that the Pope may be assaulted by ashes or subjected to disrespectful behavior during his visit to New York.

Since 9/11, the NYPD have become quintessential experts on crowd control. Believe me, they are very well prepared for this. Anyone lucky enough to have scored a ticket to the Mass at Yankee Stadium has been told to arrive early enough to be in their seats at least 2-3 hours prior to the start of the event. Tickets are non-transferrable, and you must present photo ID. Everyone will be searched thoroughly before entering. There will be so many police present that anyone who who even tries to do anything out of line will be promptly removed.

I am quite sure that St. Patrick’s Cathedral, and probably several blocks around it, will be barricaded for the Mass there.

I also predict that if there is a Papal motorcade, you will not see the popemobile surrounded by throngs of people, as you see when he visits other cities. He will be surrounded by police, and any spectators will have to stand behind police barricades a safe distance away.

No public event occurs in New York anymore without everyone’s movement and activity being controlled by the NYPD. I can attest to this having been in the Times Square area this past New Year’s Eve. It took us an hour on foot just to navigate the multiple checkpoints and search stations to get around the area. And we were just going to a bar!

Mrs_Mac

 

[DennyO]

It also reminds me of a situation a few years ago when the Premier of China visited Houston. I remember seeing thousands of people protesting China’s occupation of Tibet and persecution of the Falun Gong (sp) movement. They were lined up on one side of the freeway heading to the hotel where the Chinese Premier was staying. His motorcade went the wrong way down the other feeder road so that he would not have to see the protesters. Somehow I doubt that the officials here in the States will do the same for His Holiness.

I would rather the pope confront the protesters, ashes will not hurt him. His authority is more enhanced by standing firm that it would be to take a detour. For sure, of all the popes who preceded Benedict, so many confronted much, much worse in the form of insult and even physical harm.

I am fairly certain the protesters would see it a victory of sorts to influence the parade to detour.

 

[kristie_m]

I would rather the pope confront the protesters, ashes will not hurt him. His authority is more enhanced by standing firm that it would be to take a detour. For sure, of all the popes who preceded Benedict, so many confronted much, much worse in the form of insult and even physical harm.

I am fairly certain the protesters would see it a victory of sorts to influence the parade to detour.

I agree. They would see it as a victory, and another indication that the church has turned it’s back on them. Benedict XVI has made his feelings on this very clear…love the sinner, hate the sin.

Never let it be said that the Holy Father, when faced with adversity, ran the other way. I imagine him blessing the masses, even as they shower him with ashes. A protest of this sort is simply an exercise in futility. :banghead:

 

[v3orb]

Why not? Why shouldn’t the GLBT part of the community of Christ speak with the pope? It’s not only been suppressed unjustly, but suffers stereotyping and slurring on a day to day basis. Why not at least speak out against injustice? We all have right to address the pope and the Magisterium. Remaining silent is endorsement for homophobia.

 

[wanner47]

Why not? Why shouldn’t the GLBT part of the community of Christ speak with the pope?

Who said they shouldn’t? However, the article in the OP said nothing about “speaking” with the Pope; rather, the organization plans to throw ashes and disrupt a worship service.

It’s not only been suppressed unjustly, but suffers stereotyping and slurring on a day to day basis

.

As have Catholicism and Catholics. Your point?

Why not at least speak out against injustice?

Speaking out against injustice is a wonderful thing, but that’s not what this organization is doing. They’re rebelling against an authority that they don’t even recognize as valid. Why, I don’t know.

We all have right to address the pope and the Magisterium.

Um, actually, no. It’s not a right. Can you support this statement from the CCC or the Code of Canon Law?

Remaining silent is endorsement for homophobia.

Calling a behavior sinful is not homophobia any more than throwing ashes at the Pope is Christophobia.

 

[v3orb]

Who said they shouldn’t? However, the article in the OP said nothing about “speaking” with the Pope; rather, the organization plans to throw ashes and disrupt a worship service.

Calling a behavior sinful is not homophobia any more than throwing ashes at the Pope is Christophobia.

I didn’t realize that the Rainbow Sash Alliance was organizing this. Sorry, my bad. I definitely in no way endorse disrespecting the pope, even if it’s for the fact that he is a world leader, and not because he is the leader of God’s Church.
I actually thought this was in regard to the New Ways Ministry’s press conference with the pope.

It’s not only been suppressed unjustly, but suffers stereotyping and slurring on a day to day basis.
As have Catholicism and Catholics. Your point?

Name me one first world country that refuses Catholics the right to worship.