U2's lead guitarist rocks Sistine Chapel in concert for a cure

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From the Boston Pilot:

thebostonpilot.com/article.asp?utm_source=ConstantContact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Dailynewsletter&ID=176381

From the article:
*Vatican City, May 3, 2016 CNA.- Lead guitarist The Edge from Irish rock band sensation U2 played “the most beautiful parish hall in the world” this weekend – the Sistine Chapel.

The performance, the first-ever rock concert in the historic chapel, was given for about 200 doctors researchers who attended a conference at the Vatican last week on regenerative medicine. The conference discussed the use of adult stem cells to cure difficult and rare diseases such as cancer.*
 
Al_Moritz said:
From the Boston Pilot:

thebostonpilot.com/article.asp?utm_source=ConstantContact&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Dailynewsletter&ID=176381

From the article:
*Vatican City, May 3, 2016 CNA.- Lead guitarist The Edge from Irish rock band sensation U2 played “the most beautiful parish hall in the world” this weekend – the Sistine Chapel.

The performance, the first-ever rock concert in the historic chapel, was given for about 200 doctors researchers who attended a conference at the Vatican last week on regenerative medicine. The conference discussed the use of adult stem cells to cure difficult and rare diseases such as cancer.*
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The fact that there is going to be a rock concert in one of Gods houses (especially the Sistine Chapel)
Makes my stomach churn. “Thou shalt not worship false idols” comes to mind. People attending this concert will be doing to celebrate the band, not God.
 
Is the Sistine Chapel a functioning church? Is Mass said there?

Love the fact that The Edge is doing something this this for a good charity, but if Mass is still said there, I would have to wonder why church officials would ok this use?

Also depending how loud the music would be… could it not harm something delicate there? I mean, this is no new stadium or anything. This is a place that has been ‘rocked’ before- by many earthquakes throughout many years- I’m sure you wouldn’t want to send some strong vibrations through the place.

I’m not sure but isn’t using something set aside for holy use not to be used for secular purposes like this? Would that be a sacrilege?
 
I saw some of his performance on video, and it was certainly no rock concert. He sang while strumming an acoustic guitar, with a small choir singing behind him. I now see some websites (Fr. Z, for instance) making a big deal over this, as though it was a travesty or a sign of disrespect, but I saw nothing offensive in the clip I viewed 🤷.
 
ellam25 said:
The fact that there is going to be a rock concert in one of Gods houses (especially the Sistine Chapel)
Makes my stomach churn. “Thou shalt not worship false idols” comes to mind. People attending this concert will be doing to celebrate the band, not God.
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Salutations,
In medieval times, theater/plays were performed in the church. It was the center of activity. The Eucharist would be removed. We have had Christian groups perform in our church.
in Christ’s love
Tweedlealice
 
tweedlealice said:
Salutations,
In medieval times, theater/plays were performed in the church. It was the center of activity. The Eucharist would be removed. We have had Christian groups perform in our church.
in Christ’s love
Tweedlealice
Click to expand...
Thank you!
 
christofirst said:
I saw some of his performance on video, and it was certainly no rock concert. He sang while strumming an acoustic guitar, with a small choir singing behind him. I now see some websites (Fr. Z, for instance) making a big deal over this, as though it was a travesty or a sign of disrespect, but I saw nothing offensive in the clip I viewed 🤷.
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Nor did I
 
There was once a time when the Sistine Chapel was an exclusively sacred place. The first Mass celebrated there occurred on August 15, 1483, the Feast of the Assumption. It was on that day when the chapel was dedicated to the Blessed Virgin Mary. The chapel walls and interior decor features art by the greatest artists in the history of Christendom: Michelangelo, Raphael, Botticelli, Perugino, Ghirlandaio and Rosselli. It was once the home of Gregorio Allegri’s “Miserere,” a sumptuous work of late Renaissance polyphony. (here’s a performance – you’ll recognize it immediately, and if not, you never forget it: youtube.com/watch?v=36Y_ztEW1NE). The Allegri composition was written circa 1630 for exclusive performance at the Sistine Chapel. That means that it could not be heard in any other place on earth. To copy it was to be subject to excommunication. Mozart is said to have attended a performance of the Miserere when he was a child and, cleverly, was able to memorize the entire score note for note. So precious was this musical masterpiece to the papacy that it was not released for performance outside of the chapel for at least 100 years. The Sistine Chapel was the home for all papal conclaves from 1455 to the present day. In light of all this, it is disappointing to me that the Vatican has seen fit to allow the lead guitarist for an Irish Rock band to strum there as if he is of some importance as a musician. I’ve heard his playing before and his work is simplistic, technically uneven, and, when it rises to the passable, it’s overworked by production engineers.
 
I will grant that the short clips that I have seen/heard could not be said to resemble rock “proper”. However, there are more considerations than this.

For example, in 1987 there was a document issued by the CDWDS concerning concerts in churches (it may be read HERE). This document states clearly that “Churches, however, cannot be considered simply as public places for any kind of meeting. They are sacred places, that is, ‘set apart’ in a permanent way for divine worship by their dedication and blessing.” What struck me is that Mr Evans said during the performance that it is “important to thank the local parish priest for the loan of the hall” and then he thanked Pope Francis “for allowing us to use the most beautiful parish hall in the world.” This is not a hall! This is one of the finest treasures of the Vatican - indeed, one of the finest treasures of the world. However, it is primarily so, not because of the wonderful frescoes or because of that enduring story about Allegri’s Miserere, but because it has been set aside for divine worship, for the offering of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It is a church, and as the building is ordered towards the worship of Almighty God, that which takes place inside it ought to be ordered to His glory. Perhaps this is why, if one visits the Sistine Chapel, they will hear constant announcements about being quiet - idle chatter is not ordered to the glory of God; nor, I would suggest, is secular music.

The same document quotes the Code of Canon Law, which states that: “In a sacred place only those things are to be permitted which serve to exercise or promote worship, piety and religion. Anything out of harmony with the holiness the place is forbidden. The Ordinary may, however, for individual cases, permit other uses, provided they are not contrary to the sacred character of the place.” I would ask how a concert of secular music can be considered to be in conformity with the sacred character of the place - even by definition it cannot be. It ought not be acceptable in any parish church, and most certainly not in the Sistine Chapel.

I am utterly dismayed by this - there are other spaces within the Vatican which can accommodate hundreds of people. Why, then, the Sistine Chapel? Once again, the house of God is profaned - Catholics cannot give their assent to this.
 
tweedlealice said:
Salutations,
In medieval times, theater/plays were performed in the church. It was the center of activity. The Eucharist would be removed. We have had Christian groups perform in our church.
in Christ’s love
Tweedlealice
Click to expand...
This is true, but nor can it be said that the church was the place for staging plays throughout the Medieval period. The plays which were performed in churches were “mystery” or “morality” plays, which were strictly regulated - for example, only a priest could play the part of Christ or the saints. So, the plays in themselves had a sacred character or the goal of educating people in the faith - perhaps similar in a way to the function of stained-glass windows. However, as the performances became more elaborate and more people began to take part, the performances moved out to courtyards and then back onto the streets - the point here is that the sanctuary was not profaned; when the drama became unsuitable for the sanctuary, the drama was moved elsewhere. We do know that when the guilds got involved in producing the dramas, they were very big affairs, and were often quite rowdy, and some improvised jokes from Our Lord or Our Lady might be thrown in - these more elaborate plays did not darken the door of the church, since the performances took place on wagons which were brought throughout the town.

In short, I would not place the Medieval mystery/morality plays (which did - at least initially - have a sacred character) in the same category as a performance by Mr Evans in the Sistine Chapel.
 
August_Carlson said:
There was once a time when the Sistine Chapel was an exclusively sacred place. The first Mass celebrated there occurred on August 15, 1483, the Feast of the Assumption. It was on that day when the chapel was dedicated to the Blessed Virgin Mary. The chapel walls and interior decor features art by the greatest artists in the history of Christendom: Michelangelo, Raphael, Botticelli, Perugino, Ghirlandaio and Rosselli. It was once the home of Gregorio Allegri’s “Miserere,” a sumptuous work of late Renaissance polyphony. (here’s a performance – you’ll recognize it immediately, and if not, you never forget it: youtube.com/watch?v=36Y_ztEW1NE). The Allegri composition was written circa 1630 for exclusive performance at the Sistine Chapel. That means that it could not be heard in any other place on earth. To copy it was to be subject to excommunication. Mozart is said to have attended a performance of the Miserere when he was a child and, cleverly, was able to memorize the entire score note for note. So precious was this musical masterpiece to the papacy that it was not released for performance outside of the chapel for at least 100 years. The Sistine Chapel was the home for all papal conclaves from 1455 to the present day. In light of all this, it is disappointing to me that the Vatican has seen fit to allow the lead guitarist for an Irish Rock band to strum there as if he is of some importance as a musician. I’ve heard his playing before and his work is simplistic, technically uneven, and, when it rises to the passable, it’s overworked by production engineers.
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So… the Sistine Chapel has always been a venue for musical productions, but this one should not be allowed because you do not care for this style of music?
 
TMC,

Wow! First of all, the Sistine Chapel has not always been a “venue for musical productions,” unless you consider music intended for Catholic liturgies to be “musical productions.” I do not.

Secondly, yes, you are right, I do not care for the “style of music” (as you put it) of U2. I tolerate it and it’s fine as background music for a party. I’m not a fan. But, it doesn’t rise to the dignity of a space reserved for sacramental purposes.

Edge’s music belongs on stage, in front of his adoring fans, not in a Chapel, where we are the adoring fans. He got in the door because he was a celebrity, not because of his history as a man who worships God alone with his music. Allegri was an ordained priest, and his “Miserere” (“Have Mercy on me O God”) is perfectly suited for liturgical performance in a chapel. Sorry that it’s not your “style” of music – it’s not necessarily mine either – but I respect it for its beauty and genius. And it is appropriate to the “venue” (as you would say).
 
Can’t say I’m thrilled about this, but let me play Devil’s Advocate and say: thank God it’s only U2.

Unlike most rock / metal / pop acts who are aggressively pro-choice / pro-sexual license / anti-Christian, U2 have always embraced Christian values to some extent. Sure, they’re quite liberal, but their songs (such as “Gloria”, “Yahweh”, “If God Will Send His Angels”, “I Still Haven’t Found What I’m Looking For”, “Pride (In The Name of Love)”…) do have a solid Christian (albeit Protestant) core. They could have done much worse. 😛
 
August_Carlson said:
TMC,

Wow! First of all, the Sistine Chapel has not always been a “venue for musical productions,” unless you consider music intended for Catholic liturgies to be “musical productions.” I do not.

Secondly, yes, you are right, I do not care for the “style of music” (as you put it) of U2. I tolerate it and it’s fine as background music for a party. I’m not a fan. But, it doesn’t rise to the dignity of a space reserved for sacramental purposes.

Edge’s music belongs on stage, in front of his adoring fans, not in a Chapel, where we are the adoring fans. He got in the door because he was a celebrity, not because of his history as a man who worships God alone with his music. Allegri was an ordained priest, and his “Miserere” (“Have Mercy on me O God”) is perfectly suited for liturgical performance in a chapel. Sorry that it’s not your “style” of music – it’s not necessarily mine either – but I respect it for its beauty and genius. And it is appropriate to the “venue” (as you would say).
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Not sure I understand your position. It still seems to me that what you are saying is that its OK to use the Chapel for musical productions, but only if its classical music. Cathedrals and churches have been used for music and theater for many centuries. Those musical performances have not been limited to sacramental purposes. I don’t see any reason that should not continue, or be limited to one type of music.
 
TMC – Liturgical and ecclesial usage (such as Conclaves and Councils). That’s my position.

Lest there be any misunderstanding, my position has nothing whatsoever to do with Classical music. Chapels – and Catholic churches in general for that matter – are to be used for the Liturgies of the Church and for the ecclesial operations of the Church – not for “musical performances.” And frankly, I don’t care, actually, if chapels have been used for other kinds of non-liturgical performances in the past. If that has occurred in the past, those chapels and churches have been used improperly. I would make the exception only in the most limited circumstances if the Eucharist has been properly and reverently removed from the premises in advance of the performance. The Sistine Chapel should not be used for celebrities doodling away on their guitars or for companies renting out the hall for their parties, or for theatrical performances, or for dances, or for anything other than the liturgies of the Church and for ecclesial purposes only – that is my position…
 
August_Carlson said:
TMC – Liturgical and ecclesial usage (such as Conclaves and Councils). That’s my position.

Lest there be any misunderstanding, my position has nothing whatsoever to do with Classical music. Chapels – and Catholic churches in general for that matter – are to be used for the Liturgies of the Church and for the ecclesial operations of the Church – not for “musical performances.” And frankly, I don’t care, actually, if chapels have been used for other kinds of non-liturgical performances in the past. If that has occurred in the past, those chapels and churches have been used improperly. I would make the exception only in the most limited circumstances if the Eucharist has been properly and reverently removed from the premises in advance of the performance. The Sistine Chapel should not be used for celebrities doodling away on their guitars or for companies renting out the hall for their parties, or for theatrical performances, or for dances, or for anything other than the liturgies of the Church and for ecclesial purposes only – that is my position…
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I guess we’ll just have to disagree. Churches and Cathedrals have been used in that manner for centuries, if not millennia, and it doesn’t bother me a bit.
 
August_Carlson said:
TMC – Liturgical and ecclesial usage (such as Conclaves and Councils). That’s my position.

Lest there be any misunderstanding, my position has nothing whatsoever to do with Classical music. Chapels – and Catholic churches in general for that matter – are to be used for the Liturgies of the Church and for the ecclesial operations of the Church – not for “musical performances.” And frankly, I don’t care, actually, if chapels have been used for other kinds of non-liturgical performances in the past. If that has occurred in the past, those chapels and churches have been used improperly. I would make the exception only in the most limited circumstances if the Eucharist has been properly and reverently removed from the premises in advance of the performance. The Sistine Chapel should not be used for celebrities doodling away on their guitars or for companies renting out the hall for their parties, or for theatrical performances, or for dances, or for anything other than the liturgies of the Church and for ecclesial purposes only – that is my position…
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Just like how the Vatican used the façade of St. Peter’s Basilica to project their climate change light show funded in part by World Bank.
 
JPUSC said:
Pope Francis is allowing the renting out of the Sistine Chapel for private functions and corporate events. There was a Porsche event there.

autonews.com/article/20141017/COPY01/310179969/porsche-is-first-company-to-host-event-in-vaticans-sistine-chapel
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So Pope Francis is allowing a bunch of rich people to listen to classical music in the Sistine Chapel, when its not entirely unheard of to have musical performances there, as long as the proceeds of the event to to charity, to help the poor and the hungry.

I’m not seeing anything wrong with that. Pope Francis is a large reason why I returned to weekly mass, after getting disillusioned from poorly handled sex abuse, simply because his message of peace and justice, of love and compassion, reminded me why I’m Catholic.

And this further enforces that. The Sistine Chapel is sacred, since its a place that people gather to pray. But when people aren’t there, and the Eucharist isn’t there, it’s just a building no different than anything else. If he’s going to let some suits from Porche sit there and listen to classical music and using the money they paid to get in to feed the poor and needy… God bless, Pope Francis. May he live long.
 
This is horrible

No rock band or other musical artist has a right to host a concert with secular unholy music in any Chapel or Cathedral of the Holy Roman Catholic Church
 
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