UCC president insults Pope and Catholic Church

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This man and what he has to say don’t affect me. :yawn:
I have accepted that fact that there are just some people out there who ride on the name of other people just to get attention and I just cannot do anything about it.:sleep:
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cestusdei:
Statement of Rev. John Thomas, president of the UCC:

"With Christians around the world I join in praying for the newly elected Pope Benedict XVI that he may have the strength and wisdom sufficient for the leadership he is now called to exercise in the Catholic Church. Today as the conclave announces its decision, the offering of prayers for this new pontificate is the most appropriate response from other Christian leaders.

"Nevertheless, I acknowledge that I personally greet Cardinal Ratzinger’s selection with profound disappointment. Cardinal Ratzinger’s long tenure in the Vatican has been marked by a theological tone that is rigid, conservative and confrontational. The harsh treatment received by many gifted Catholic theologians over the years from the Cardinal’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has been profoundly troubling. His interpretations of the ecumenical vision of Vatican II have been narrow and constrained, and he has persisted in describing the ecclesial status of non-Catholic churches in ways that have been insensitive and demeaning.

"To many of us who have watched his ministry during John Paul II’s papacy, [Ratzinger] has lacked the warm pastoral heart that is so central to the ministry of bishops, including the Bishop of Rome.

“In other times the Holy Spirit has surprised us with gifts and graces we could not have anticipated from new popes at the time of their election. I pray that there may be similar surprises in the coming weeks and months.”
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Here is what they say about baptism:

“The Book of Worship of the United Church of Christ provides an Order for Baptism and orders for Affirmation of Baptism. The recognition of our baptism by the ecumenical church is important to us, and the Book of Worship encourages the use of language recognized in most Christian churches: “I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.” Feminine images for God may surround these words to enrich understandings and offer balance.” It concludes with a prayer to the mother and father God. So they “encourage” Trinitarian language, BUT it isn’t required. Their creeds also carefully avoid the term Father and use gender neutral language.
 
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cestusdei:
Statement of Rev. John Thomas, president of the UCC:

"With Christians around the world I join in praying for the newly elected Pope Benedict XVI that he may have the strength and wisdom sufficient for the leadership he is now called to exercise in the Catholic Church. Today as the conclave announces its decision, the offering of prayers for this new pontificate is the most appropriate response from other Christian leaders.

"Nevertheless, I acknowledge that I personally greet Cardinal Ratzinger’s selection with profound disappointment. Cardinal Ratzinger’s long tenure in the Vatican has been marked by a theological tone that is rigid, conservative and confrontational. The harsh treatment received by many gifted Catholic theologians over the years from the Cardinal’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has been profoundly troubling. His interpretations of the ecumenical vision of Vatican II have been narrow and constrained, and he has persisted in describing the ecclesial status of non-Catholic churches in ways that have been insensitive and demeaning.

"To many of us who have watched his ministry during John Paul II’s papacy, [Ratzinger] has lacked the warm pastoral heart that is so central to the ministry of bishops, including the Bishop of Rome.

“In other times the Holy Spirit has surprised us with gifts and graces we could not have anticipated from new popes at the time of their election. I pray that there may be similar surprises in the coming weeks and months.”
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Anybody got his e-mail address…I wanna just e-mail him a good old fashioned Irish “Bite me.” loaded with all the charity that I can muster. :mad:
Pax vobiscum,
 
Lumen Gentium:
This man and what he has to say don’t affect me. :yawn:
I have accepted that fact that there are just some people out there who ride on the name of other people just to get attention and I just cannot do anything about it.:sleep:
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Look at this way - we all rely on others for prayers; and it may very well be that the prayers of other Christians are helping the Church, and doing so more than we realise.​

This chap did not ask to be quoted - still less to have his prayers and goodwill mentioned. And he can hardly be faulted for not being Catholic in belief - he does not claim to be one.

If no Protestants had prayed at all for the Pope - we would then be complaining about that. Whether they behave in a Christ-like way, and pray for us; or not, and do not pray - there we are to criticise them. Whatever Protestants do, Catholics complain. Catholics can be the most frightful bigots at times 😦 - as bad as Jack Chick is said to be: the only difference, is the label.

These are people who are our brothers in Christ - some brothers we are to them 😦 ##
 
I tracted a Dave Hunt conference once. It was one of the proudest moments of my life. I wish I could have seen his face.
 
I’m not exactly sure how this president was insulting the Pope BenedictXVIth and the Catholic church.

He did state that he was dissapointed in the Cardinal’s choice in a very conservative candidate. But so were a lot of less-conservative Catholics themselves. Are we less-conservative Catholics insulting our holy Father and the church we love by being dissapointed with the selection of a very conservative Pope?

I am a Catholic, I love and support both the Holy Father and the church period. But I would not have been unhappy had the conclave selected a more moderate candidate.
 
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cestusdei:
Here is what they say about baptism:

“The Book of Worship of the United Church of Christ provides an Order for Baptism and orders for Affirmation of Baptism. The recognition of our baptism by the ecumenical church is important to us, and the Book of Worship encourages the use of language recognized in most Christian churches: “I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.” Feminine images for God may surround these words to enrich understandings and offer balance.” It concludes with a prayer to the mother and father God. So they “encourage” Trinitarian language, BUT it isn’t required. Their creeds also carefully avoid the term Father and use gender neutral language.
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I’ll respond to both of your response thus:

what the UCC is doing now is not an arguement about the validity of his baptism 30, 40 50 or more years ago.

Furthermore, one has no place assuming that he was necessarily baptized in a UCC church; it could have been one of any of the others that we recognize.

I stand by my statement that he is a fellow baptized Christian. He obviously is liberal. That is poor grounds for making a statement that you doubt he worships the same God. I would not question that his understanding of God is not as complete as The Catholic Church’s understanding. But to say not the same God? That is totally uncalled for.
 
In my opinion, it is really none of his business who was elected Pope. He is not Catholic, and doesn’t concern him a bit. Let him take care of his own church.
 
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JackmanUSC:
What the heck is UCC?
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Head’s Up, Jackman:

The United Church of Christ is a relatively new denomination, created by the merger of several older ones. It should not be confused with the Disciples of Christ, Church of Christ, United Pentecostals, or several other groups with similar names. The UCC came together as a result of ecumenicism in the 1950’s (I think), and tends to deem ecumenicism a greater priority than theology. They have sought further mergers with various other Protestant bodies, most notably the Disciples of Christ. The UCC, to my knowledge has only grown by mergers, followed by ever-more dramatic shifts into heterodoxy, followed by the slow hemorrage of it’s membership into more orthodox denominations. In recent years, they have been stressing ‘inclusiveness’, a buzz-word for granting full rights of membership to homoesexuals and lesbians. Naturally, they would be hoping for an ‘ecumenic-minded’ Pope, but their idea of ecumenicism has little to do with the quest for truth.

The UCC has every right to express it’s dismay at the new Pope–after all, folks here on Catholic Answers voiced THEIR dismay when the UCC ran an ad campaign recently on behalf of gays and lesbians–though I concur with Cestusdei that their decision to do so in such terms bodes ill for any dialogue between the UCC and the RCC. On the other hand–how much basis for dialogue existed anyhow?
 
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otm:
I stand by my statement that he is a fellow baptized Christian. He obviously is liberal. That is poor grounds for making a statement that you doubt he worships the same God. I would not question that his understanding of God is not as complete as The Catholic Church’s understanding. But to say not the same God? That is totally uncalled for.
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otm,

This is the scary truth today though, most of these guys are borderline Godless the way they act, and to say that they dont worship the one true God is not out of line. Jesus talks in “plain english” about wolves and other phonies, these guys are perverting the Gospel plain and simple. They read off passages from the Bible and turn around and do the opposite.

Here is an example
The UCC’s Golden Gate Association ordains the first openly gay person in history as a Christian minister: the Rev. William R. Johnson. In the following three decades, General Synod urges equal rights for homosexual citizens and calls on congregations to welcome gay, lesbian and bisexual members…

…The United Church of Christ publishes The New Century Hymnal—the only hymnal released by a Christian church that honors in equal measure both male and female images of God. Although its poetry is contemporary, its theology is traditional… link
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This page has a time line, a bogus history in which the UCC pretends to have existed all along, as you get to the bottom of the page they become more out of line.

At first the individual original protestant sects might have held a sliver of truth, but in the last few years it is clear the UCC dont worship the same God…They are the epitome of blind leading the blind.
I looked all around their page and it is a perversion hotbed, there is no leadership do what ever you want group.
They are a Godless bunch.
 
OK. I can look at it from a charitable perspective.Thanks. 🙂
I still don’t get it why he has to make comments or state something like that. He should have thought first if such
kind of statement, coming from him, would make an impact on the enormous faithful flock of Benedict XVI. What credibility does he have to say something that does not concern his flock?

Perhaps we tend to complain what protestants do because what they always seem do is to attack the Catholic Church and not pray for her. Remember also that whatever Catholics do, protestants don’t complain; They criticize (or to put more strongly, they condemn or pass judgement), and criticize they do in uncharitable manners.
PAX

Gottle of Geer said:
## Look at this way - we all rely on others for prayers; and it may very well be that the prayers of other Christians are helping the Church, and doing so more than we realise.

This chap did not ask to be quoted - still less to have his prayers and goodwill mentioned. And he can hardly be faulted for not being Catholic in belief - he does not claim to be one.

If no Protestants had prayed at all for the Pope - we would then be complaining about that. Whether they behave in a Christ-like way, and pray for us; or not, and do not pray - there we are to criticise them. Whatever Protestants do, Catholics complain. Catholics can be the most frightful bigots at times 😦 - as bad as Jack Chick is said to be: the only difference, is the label.

These are people who are our brothers in Christ - some brothers we are to them 😦 ##
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I don’t have a problem with Rev. Thomas commenting on the selection of a new Pope. I do have a problem with his misunderstanding (I’m being generous here) of the teachings of the Church. The mistake he made is one that some Catholics make as well. They believe they have better insight into the needs of the Church than does the Holy Spirit.

I would even go as far to say this. If a Catholic has a problem with the selection of Pope Benedict. They should probably find another church right now. For if they question the Authority by which the Pope is selected, there is no reason for them to believe anything the Church teaches.

At least Rev. Thomas has an excuse…he obviously doesn’t know Catholics teachings with respect to this matter. Maybe he should refrain from making comments until he does.

JoelMichael
 
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davy39:
In my opinion, it is really none of his business who was elected Pope. He is not Catholic, and doesn’t concern him a bit. Let him take care of his own church.
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Exactly!

I am getting so tired of non-Catholics telling the Catholic Church what it should and shouldn’t do. The Maureen Dowd syndrome. :mad:

The Catholic Churhc has zero, zilch, NO obligation to either seek or heed the advice of non-Catholics about anything–least of all about choosing its leaders.

Some advice to the UCC advice-givers and their ilk: If you want the right to shoot your mouth off about what the Catholic Church should do, then become a Catholic. As long as you remain outside the Church’s visible bounds, your views on what the Church should or shouldn’t do have about as much weight as a pair of microfiber skivvies.

ZT
 
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flameburns623:
Head’s Up, Jackman:

The United Church of Christ is a relatively new denomination, created by the merger of several older ones. It should not be confused with the Disciples of Christ, Church of Christ, United Pentecostals, or several other groups with similar names. The UCC came together as a result of ecumenicism in the 1950’s (I think), and tends to deem ecumenicism a greater priority than theology. They have sought further mergers with various other Protestant bodies, most notably the Disciples of Christ. The UCC, to my knowledge has only grown by mergers, followed by ever-more dramatic shifts into heterodoxy, followed by the slow hemorrage of it’s membership into more orthodox denominations. In recent years, they have been stressing ‘inclusiveness’, a buzz-word for granting full rights of membership to homoesexuals and lesbians. Naturally, they would be hoping for an ‘ecumenic-minded’ Pope, but their idea of ecumenicism has little to do with the quest for truth.
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One of my colleagues (raised Catholic) belongs to a local UCC parish. She hasn’t been in a while, though, because, she says, the small congregation is heavily lesbian, which makes her very uncomfortable.

Blessings,
ZT
 
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