UK Ban Pro-Life Vigils Outside Abortion Clinics Nationwide, Says Labour MP

[gam197]

(i) The display of lifelike foetus dolls;

(ii) Threats that users of the Centre would go to Hell;

(iii) Referring to users of the Centre as “Mum”.

(iv) The handing out of rosary beads to users and passers-by;

(v) Pursuing users of the Centre with leaflets;

(vi) Not leaving users with enough room to pass into the Centre;

(vii) The playing of loud music and chanting from pro-choice activists;

(viii) The taking of photographs of persons using the clinic;

(ix) Young children passing by exposed to images of foetuses.

I don’t know how graphic but signs with live babies should not hurt anyone. Prolifers will always get bad press. They will being seen as bad by those who want abortion to remain legal.

The issue for the UK is that they have a soaring abortion rate and they have to address it and not pretend it had not been happening. This new piece of legislation to ban vigils outside clinics will not help in the least.

I’d like to see what the UK is actually proposing to try to bring the rate down.

 

[Kaninchen]

I must not look ‘convertible’ or something - there are some nice JW ladies who congregate outside our local shops and who turned out to be fun to chat with once they realised any conversation with me veered off into areas they weren’t trained to deal with.

 

[_Ruby]

_Ruby:

(i) The display of lifelike foetus dolls;

(ii) Threats that users of the Centre would go to Hell;

(iii) Referring to users of the Centre as “Mum”.

(iv) The handing out of rosary beads to users and passers-by;

(v) Pursuing users of the Centre with leaflets;

(vi) Not leaving users with enough room to pass into the Centre;

(vii) The playing of loud music and chanting from pro-choice activists;

(viii) The taking of photographs of persons using the clinic;

(ix) Young children passing by exposed to images of foetuses.

I don’t know how graphic but signs with live babies should not hurt anyone. Prolifers will always get bad press. They will being seen as bad by those who want abortion to remain legal.

The issue for the UK is that they have a soaring abortion rate and they have to address it and not pretend it had not been happening. This new piece of legislation to ban vigils outside clinics will not help in the least.

None of that list said ‘pictures of live babies’, so that point is irrelevant. Perhaps if the protesters didn’t want to get ‘bad press’, they should behave in ways that are ‘bad’.

The abortion rate in the UK and addressing it has nothing to do with allowing protesters to physically accost women or create an environment that is hostile to local residents.

I’d like to see what the UK is actually proposing to try to bring the rate down.

Considering the stats for 2019 have only just been released, I imagine the consultation process for action is in the early stages.

 

[gam197]

None of that list said ‘pictures of live babies’, so that point is irrelevant. Perhaps if the protesters didn’t want to get ‘bad press’, they should behave in ways that are ‘bad’.

The abortion rate in the UK and addressing it has nothing to do with allowing protesters to physically accost women or create an environment that is hostile to local residents.

That has always been the words used against prolifers that they are accosting people which is untrue but used to sell a smeared outlook on prolife people .

Considering the stats for 2019 have only just been released, I imagine the consultation process for action is in the early stages.

I have yet to see it addressed and was very suprised to see this idea of banning all groups outside clinics at a time when rates are soaring.

I doubt they will even address but trust me if I see an article on how the UK is addressing their soaring abortion rate, I will be the first to post it.

 

[Kaninchen]

Sometimes, though not too often, I miss the bonkers nature of London street life. Out here in ‘Midsomer’, eccentricity in the street tends to be varieties of running gear or breed of accompanying dog.

 

[_Ruby]

That has always been the words used against prolifers that they are accosting people which is untrue but used to sell a smeared outlook on prolife people .

Except in this case, it is actually happening. The decision ruling even states that the pro life group in question was not denying that they had been approaching, photographing and threatening women.

I have yet to see it addressed and was very suprised to see this idea of banning all groups outside clinics at a time when rates are soaring.

I doubt they will even address but trust me if I see an article on how the UK is addressing their soaring abortion rate, I will be the first to post it.

Why are you surprised, have you even looked at the timeline in question? The increase in abortion rates was over the entire course of 2019. The numbers would have been collated in early 2020, the final report was released in March/April 2020. This court ruling was in August 2019, which means the actual issue would have been tabled in early 2019. The protests in question have been going on for years.

Also you are conflating two separate issues. The issue of abortion rates in the UK are Nationwide. This issue over protests is only in the borough of Ealing - a specific part of London. A nationwide problem is not going to be solved by an action in one specific area.

 

[gam197]

gam197:

I doubt they will even address but trust me if I see an article on how the UK is addressing their soaring abortion rate, I will be the first to post it.

Why are you surprised, have you even looked at the timeline in question? The increase in abortion rates was over the entire course of 2019. The numbers would have been collated in early 2020, the final report was released in March/April 2020. This court ruling was in August 2019, which means the actual issue would have been tabled in early 2019. The protests in question have been going on for years.

Abortion rates have always been high in the Uk but have been soaring higher since 2015 and nothing has been address as yet.

Some people at the clinics in not the problem. The problem is the UK is not addressing what to do to lower these rates.

Also you are conflating two separate issues. The issue of abortion rates in the UK are Nationwide. This issue over protests is only in the borough of Ealing - a specific part of London. A nationwide problem is not going to be solved by an action in one specific area.

Yes I realize the abortion rates are nationwide.

Where does it state the issue if over protests only in the borough of Ealing - a specific part of London. My understanding is that Manchester and London both have banned prolife people outside clinics. Now new legislation is looking to expand this to the whole of the UK according to this article.

 

[_Ruby]

Abortion rates have always been high in the Uk but have been soaring higher since 2015 and nothing has been address as yet.

Gam, this is untrue. If you are going to make statements, the responsibility is on you to ensure they are accurate and not some regurgitation of what you have read on questionable media.

The 2016 rate of abortion was lower than the 2015 rate. 2017 saw a marginal increase from 16.7 abortions per 1000 women vs 16 per 1000 in 2016. The big jumps were in 2018 (which was still lower than the actual 2007 peak, and then finally in 2019.

The last two years have seen a large increase, they have not been ‘soaring’ since 2015.

Yes I realize the abortion rates are nationwide.

Where does it state the issue if over protests only in the borough of Ealing - a specific part of London. My understanding is that Manchester and London both have banned prolife people outside clinics. Now new legislation is looking to expand this to the whole of the UK according to this article.

The justice ruling is specifically about Ealing. Again, if you had read it, the conclusion is thus:

CONCLUSION

1. Having, in the circumstances of this case, undertaken a structured proportionality review, I have concluded that the defendant’s decision to make a PSPO ought not to be quashed in whole or in part on this challenge.
2. Finally, and at the risk of stating the obvious, I would make the following observations:

(i) This is not a case about the rights and wrongs of abortion;

(ii) The genuineness of the motives of the activists on both sides of the debate cannot be doubted;

(iii) My conclusions in this case do not give the green light to local authorities to impose PSPOs as a matter of course upon areas in the immediate vicinity of abortion clinics. Each case must be decided on its own facts.

There is no ‘new legislation’ at this point in time. There is an MP who believes, in her opinion, it should be nationwide. It is a long way from becoming law and contrary to what the Justice outlined in his ruling for Ealing.

 

[gam197]

The UK has had abortion for longer than the US. In all that time over 50 years these problems have not worked so why would it change today and it has actually gotten worse in the last 5 years so now what.

I doubt all of this. I know a number of prolife people who are Catholic and their whole goal is to let the girls know there are resources that they may not be aware of.

 

[gam197]

There is no ‘new legislation’ at this point in time. There is an MP who believes, in her opinion, it should be nationwide. It is a long way from becoming law and contrary to what the Justice outlined in his ruling for Ealing.

So how pervasive is it?. One person on here said prolifers are banned outside of Manchester clinics and I have read London. That this MP would bring this up at a time when abortion rates soar is just surreal.

 

[_Ruby]

I doubt all of this. I know a number of prolife people who are Catholic and their whole goal is to let the girls know there are resources that they may not be aware of.

Gam, you do realise that women are well aware of the other resources available? 99% of UK abortions are NHS funded and a woman needs to be referred via her GP first. The GP’s job is to do exactly what they would do with all other ailments - talk through the issue, outline the options and let the patient think about it. That includes information on local pregnancy support groups and counselling.

 

[gam197]

am, this is untrue. If you are going to make statements, the responsibility is on you to ensure they are accurate and not some regurgitation of what you have read on questionable media.

The 2016 rate of abortion was lower than the 2015 rate. 2017 saw a marginal increase from 16.7 abortions per 1000 women vs 16 per 1000 in 2016. The big jumps were in 2018 (which was still lower than the actual 2007 peak, and then finally in 2019.

The last two years have seen a large increase, they have not been ‘soaring’ since 2015.

Avortion rates are high and I am referring to the charts given to me on these forum which show the rate of abortion increasing more so since 2015.

Again the rate of abortion is 207, 384 abortion which is a big number and has been so for the last 50 years. You and I did a whole thread on this so there is not denying rates are high.

Here is that thread

UK Has Record High Abortions World News

It is the highest number since the Abortion Act was introduced. The official annual report shows that the abortion rate was highest for women aged 22 ( Evangelical Focus ) In 2019, there were 207,384 abortions of women resident in England and Wales, the highest number since the Abortion Act was introduced in 1967. The figures have been made public by the UK Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC). The monarchy(William and Harry) are alway concerned about the environment and populati…

gam197:

I doubt all of this. I know a number of prolife people who are Catholic and their whole goal is to let the girls know there are resources that they may not be aware of.

Gam, you do realise that women are well aware of the other resources available? 99% of UK abortions are NHS funded and a woman needs to be referred via her GP first. The GP’s job is to do exactly what they would do with all other ailments - talk through the issue, outline the options and let the patient think about it. That includes information on local pregnancy support groups and counselling.

It is not working so how pervasive are these bans outside clinics. Again one poster said they are banned outside of Manchester clinic. I have read the prolifers are banned outside of London clinics.
This MP has decided to take up the issue and enforce further bans.

 

[_Ruby]

_Ruby:

There is no ‘new legislation’ at this point in time. There is an MP who believes, in her opinion, it should be nationwide. It is a long way from becoming law and contrary to what the Justice outlined in his ruling for Ealing.

So how pervasive is it?. One person on here said prolifers are banned outside of Manchester clinics and I have read London. That this MP would bring this up at a time when abortion rates soar is just surreal.

Gam, again this specific ruling and article is regarding ONE CLINIC IN THE WHOLE OF LONDON. If another poster is talking about Manchester, they will need to provide details before I can comment.

The MP is bringing up that protesters should not be allowed to protest in such a way that threatens women and disrupts the life of residents in the area. The issue is not about protest or the right or wrong of abortion - it is about THE METHODS EMPLOYED during that protest.

 

[gam197]

Gam, again this specific ruling and article is regarding ONE CLINIC IN THE WHOLE OF LONDON. If another poster is talking about Manchester, they will need to provide details before I can comment.

The MP is bringing up that protesters should not be allowed to protest in such a way that threatens women and disrupts the life of residents in the area. The issue is not about protest or the right or wrong of abortion - it is about THE METHODS EMPLOYED during that protest.

Banning prolife catholic or evangelicals is the issue. You have stated it is this one MP talking on one clinic but article states this

Pro-abortion Labour MP Rupa Huq has called for a nationwide ban on protests outside abortion clinics by pro-life activists who hold vigils and offer support to prospective mothers outside the clinics.

The Member of Parliament for Ealing Central and Acton — who campaigned to successfully impose a so-called ‘exclusion zone’ of 100-metres (330 ft) at the Marie Stopes abortion clinic in her constituency — said that the ban should be extended to the whole country. Huq will introduce the proposed ban to the House of Commons on Tuesday.

It remain to be seem whether she has political clout when she introduces this ban in the House of Commons on Tuesday and how well received it is.

As far as the other poster who stated they are already banned in Manchester, he/she needs to check on it.

 

[_Ruby]

Avortion rates are high and I am referring to the charts given to me on these forum which show the rate of abortion increasing more so since 2015.

Again the rate of abortion is 207, 384 abortion which is a big number and has been so for the last 50 years. You and I did a whole thread on this so there is not denying rates are high.

Gam, I advise you to look at actual sources:

Abortion statistics for England and Wales: 2015

Statistics and summary of information on abortions carried out in 2015.

www.gov.uk

Abortion statistics for England and Wales: 2016

Statistics and summary of information on abortions carried out in 2016.

www.gov.uk

Abortion statistics for England and Wales: 2017

Statistics and commentary on abortions carried out in 2017.

www.gov.uk

Abortion statistics for England and Wales: 2018

Statistics and commentary on abortions carried out in 2018.

www.gov.uk

Abortion statistics for England and Wales: 2019

Statistics and commentary on abortions carried out in 2019.

www.gov.uk

2016 was lower than 2015. 2017 saw a marginal increase on the 2015 rate. The jump has been in 2018 and 2019.

We did indeed previously discuss the rates specifically for 2019 - the year of record high

 

[gam197]

2016 was lower than 2015. 2017 saw a marginal increase on the 2015 rate. The jump has been in 2018 and 2019.

We did indeed previously discuss the rates specifically for 2019 - the year of record high

Are you denying that the rate of over 207,000 abortion in 2019 is not a problem, 200,000 in 2018, 192,700 in 2017 and 190,406 in 2016?
Then this statement from 2015 article…

The total number of abortions remains fairly constant at 185,824, 0.7% higher than in 2014
(184,571) and 0.3% less than in 2005 (186,416).

_Ruby I really appreciate your help in understanding these figures.

Yet the concern in with prolife prayer groups outside clinics. Really. I hope you are right in that it is a one clinic.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Pardon our manifest-destiny. It’s an old USA habit. It’s hard to shake.

 

[gam197]

It should because this lack of concern is a cancer that affect other nations such as Ireland and the north.never mind all of Europe,

 

[ThinkingSapien]

That topic is worth a thread by itself. Even though this is my place of origin, I get the impression that we (USA Citizens) are not very good at understanding that conditions, laws, and philosophies may be different in places outside of our own. Given that the estimate of citizens with passports is about 42% it may be the case that more than half of us have never stepped outside of our country (I can’t say that with certainty, since prior to 2001-09-11 people could go to Canada or Mexico without a passport). I speculate that there might be a greater understanding that how things are here is not the only way the only way they could be if we had more travel outside of our country. But this is speculation on my part.

Sometimes it is a bit incredible the issues that generate such reactions here.

 

[gam197]

Legislation have reduced rates and groups have been somewhat effective outside clinics. Abby Johnson, former clinic manager, has said that rates of abortion dropped when there were prayer vigils outside her clinic.

I am glad you called it Northern Ireland not me because there is no way to address it. Ireland now has it own abortion rates.