UK bans teaching of creationism in any school which receives public funding

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Yeah I agree. Faulty science shouldn’t be taught at schools. It’s only damaging to kids. There’s good reasons to believe in God, but this type of science isn’t one of them.
 
Children should be taught the doctrine of creation and divine providence in any school that teaches about nature and the origins of things. The scientific explanations for natural phenomena and the origins of things are naturalistic and mechanistic,and this means that nature is attributed with powers it does not have. It doesn’t matter if religious teachings don’t belong in science classes,what matters is that the doctrine of creation and divine providence is true and rational and that it is relevant to a proper understanding of nature. Creation and divine providence are not just religious teachings,they are understood through reason apart from religion.

The catechism says:

286 Human intelligence is surely already capable of finding a response to the question of origins. the existence of God the Creator can be known with certainty through his works, by the light of human reason,122 even if this knowledge is often obscured and disfigured by error. This is why faith comes to confirm and enlighten reason in the correct understanding of this truth: "By faith we understand that the world was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was made out of things which do not appear."123

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P19.HTM >>>>

Knowledge of God’s power over nature is necessary to have a proper understanding of natural causation. Natural science is interested in natural causes and effects,but without knowledge of God’s power over natural things and their dependence upon him,scientists sometimes misrepresent natural things as having the power to produce effects that are impossible for them. This is done on the subjects of the origins of matter,order,life,species and human thought. All these things originate by the power of God,and they cannot be rightly attributed to natural causes.

The catechism says:

V. GOD CARRIES OUT HIS PLAN: DIVINE PROVIDENCE

302 Creation has its own goodness and proper perfection, but it did not spring forth complete from the hands of the Creator. the universe was created “in a state of journeying” (in statu viae) toward an ultimate perfection yet to be attained, to which God has destined it. We call “divine providence” the dispositions by which God guides his creation toward this perfection:

By his providence God protects and governs all things which he has made, “reaching mightily from one end of the earth to the other, and ordering all things well”. For “all are open and laid bare to his eyes”, even those things which are yet to come into existence through the free action of creatures.161

303 The witness of Scripture is unanimous that the solicitude of divine providence is concrete and immediate; God cares for all, from the least things to the great events of the world and its history. the sacred books powerfully affirm God’s absolute sovereignty over the course of events: "Our God is in the heavens; he does whatever he pleases."162 and so it is with Christ, “who opens and no one shall shut, who shuts and no one opens”.163 As the book of Proverbs states: "Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the LORD that will be established."164

304 And so we see the Holy Spirit, the principal author of Sacred Scripture, often attributing actions to God without mentioning any secondary causes. This is not a “primitive mode of speech”, but a profound way of recalling God’s primacy and absolute Lordship over history and the world,165 and so of educating his people to trust in him. the prayer of the Psalms is the great school of this trust.166

305 Jesus asks for childlike abandonment to the providence of our heavenly Father who takes care of his children’s smallest needs: "Therefore do not be anxious, saying, “What shall we eat?” or “What shall we drink?”. . . Your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things shall be yours as well."167

Providence and secondary causes

306 God is the sovereign master of his plan. But to carry it out he also makes use of his creatures’ co-operation. This use is not a sign of weakness, but rather a token of almighty God’s greatness and goodness. For God grants his creatures not only their existence, but also the dignity of acting on their own, of being causes and principles for each other, and thus of co-operating in the accomplishment of his plan.

307 To human beings God even gives the power of freely sharing in his providence by entrusting them with the responsibility of “subduing” the earth and having dominion over it.168 God thus enables men to be intelligent and free causes in order to complete the work of creation, to perfect its harmony for their own good and that of their neighbours. Though often unconscious collaborators with God’s will, they can also enter deliberately into the divine plan by their actions, their prayers and their sufferings.169 They then fully become “God’s fellow workers” and co-workers for his kingdom.170

308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator. God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes: "For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure."171 Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it. Drawn from nothingness by God’s power, wisdom and goodness, it can do nothing if it is cut off from its origin, for "without a Creator the creature vanishes."172 Still less can a creature attain its ultimate end without the help of God’s grace.173
 
The references you make are of Catholic teaching. Public schools are secular institutions thus it would be inappropriate to present Creationism, ID, or any variant of religious evangelization disguised as science.
 
Good for them! For some reason, Protestants that adhere to the whole young earththeory really bother me.**
When the Duggar Family visited the Creationist Museum i almost gagged. No wonder those poor children are homeschooled. A life without common sense and reason - how charming.:eek:
 
kozlosap said:
Good for them! For some reason, Protestants that adhere to the whole young earththeory really bother me.**
When the Duggar Family visited the Creationist Museum i almost gagged. No wonder those poor children are homeschooled. A life without common sense and reason - how charming.:eek:
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The first sentance in the Bible is, in the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth, sounds like creationism to me.

God creaated man in his own image, it does not say God created apes that evolved into man.

This is my faith, and science can teach what it wants.
 
ringil said:
The references you make are of Catholic teaching. Public schools are secular institutions thus it would be inappropriate to present Creationism, ID, or any variant of religious evangelization disguised as science.
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But didn’t you also say you are happy that your kid’s Catholic school didn’t teach intelligent design or creationism?

Ishii
 
Eric_Hyom said:
The first sentance in the Bible is, in the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth, sounds like creationism to me.

God creaated man in his own image, it does not say God created apes that evolved into man.

This is my faith, and science can teach what it wants.
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Actually your faith, if Catholic, does not preclude the possibility that we evolved from apes. It does require that at some point, a soul was put in place.

Ishii
 
ishii said:
But didn’t you also say you are happy that your kid’s Catholic school didn’t teach intelligent design or creationism?

Ishii
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In a science class, yes, because Creationism, ID, and. . . ahem. . . IDevolution. . . aren’t science. . . . they are religion masquerading as science.
 
Eric_Hyom said:
The first sentance in the Bible is, in the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth, sounds like creationism to me.

God creaated man in his own image, it does not say God created apes that evolved into man.

This is my faith, and science can teach what it wants.
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Do we really have to go through that whole thing again? Evolution as a scientific theory has been accepted by the Catholic Church in 1950. It has been reaffirmed over the years as we now have tons of more evidence.

It doesn’t contradict our belief that God created the universe, including us.
 
ringil said:
The references you make are of Catholic teaching. Public schools are secular institutions thus it would be inappropriate to present Creationism, ID, or any variant of religious evangelization disguised as science.
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The doctrine of creation and science is not just a religious teaching,it is knowable through reason,like natural law. Public schools do not need to be completely secular and materialist in content anyway. They used to uphold Christian teachings and prayer until the 1950’s,when the government and supreme court began to secularize them. The fact that a school is supported by the government does not mean that it must be completely secular and materialist. And teaching the doctrines of creation and divine providence in science classes is not religious evangelization disguised as science.
 
anthony022071 said:
. And teaching the doctrines of creation and divine providence in science classes is not religious evangelization disguised as science.
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Yes, it is. Science limits itself to the natural world, to naturalistic explanations. It does not refer to the supernatural. It doesn’t deny, nor confirm the supernatural.

Science is not affected whether taught in public or private schools.
 
Hans_W said:
Yes, it is. Science limits itself to the natural world, to naturalistic explanations. It does not refer to the supernatural. It doesn’t deny, nor confirm the supernatural.

Science is not affected whether taught in public or private schools.
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Not everything in nature can be rightly explained with natural causes alone. Nature does not have self-sufficient creative power. It does not have the power to produce matter and order and life and species and human thought. The fact that science is limited to natural things means that it is limited in its capacity to reason about natural things. It is inadequate to rightly explain whatever natural things cannot do.

The doctrine of creation and divine providence in a science class would not be disguised as science unless it was presented as scientific knowledge. If could be presented as an intellectual framework for the proper understanding of nature and causation. Without that framework,scientific explanations lead people to a naturalistic,mechanistic and reductionist view of nature.
 
Children in public* school are fed quite a lot of religion already. The religion of atheism, the religion of relativism, of secularism, of modernism, of Population Control. These are all religious ideologies and whatever Catholic sends their children to public school surely endangers their souls due to the lack of faith education and the amount of indoctrination in these dangerous tenets.

*I am an American and have used the American term for a government-funded school
 
anthony022071 said:
Not everything in nature can be rightly explained with natural causes alone. Nature does not have self-sufficient creative power. It does not have the power to produce matter and order and life and species and human thought. The fact that science is limited to natural things means that it is limited in its capacity to reason about natural things. It is inadequate to rightly explain whatever natural things cannot do.

The doctrine of creation and divine providence in a science class would not be disguised as science unless it was presented as scientific knowledge. If could be presented as an intellectual framework for the proper understanding of nature and causation. Without that framework,scientific explanations lead people to a naturalistic,mechanistic and reductionist view of nature.
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We are talking about school kids who want/need to learn about physics, chemistry, biology, perhaps a bit of geology, astronomy and the weather.

Could you please expand on how and where you want to fit in teachings on self-sufficient creative power, production of matter and order, human thought etc.?

You might go into some of these topics in a class on philosophy. If something in nature cannot be explained through natural causes, then it’s not science. Creation, meaning of life, ethics etc. belong in religion classes. I am very much for religious education, but not in a science curriculum.
 
Hans_W said:
We are talking about school kids who want/need to learn about physics, chemistry, biology, perhaps a bit of geology, astronomy and the weather.

Could you please expand on how and where you want to fit in teachings on self-sufficient creative power, production of matter and order, human thought etc.?

You might go into some of these topics in a class on philosophy. If something in nature cannot be explained through natural causes, then it’s not science. Creation, meaning of life, ethics etc. belong in religion classes. I am very much for religious education, but not in a science curriculum.
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Some people regard evolution as a religious ideology that is damaging to their children. What to do?
 
Eric_Hyom said:
The first sentance in the Bible is, in the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth, sounds like creationism to me.

God creaated man in his own image, it does not say God created apes that evolved into man.

This is my faith, and science can teach what it wants.
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There doesn’t have to be a disconnect. This is fundamentalistic thinking, not Catholic. Catholics have never shied away from the truth. We invented the scientific method for Pete’s sake.

The problem with creationism isn’t that it says God created the world. (Which is true, though not really a scientific matter.) It’s that it relies on and promotes a literal reading of Genesis with a six day creation and a six thousand year old earth. It has to completely ignore or distort all findings in science to get that number, and as such it doesn’t qualify as legitimate science at all and shouldn’t be taught in schools. Neither should we be teaching that the earth is flat or the sun revolves around the earth or any other faulty scientific theory.

We should be teaching the best science we have available, and then helping our kids see that faith and reason are complimentary to each other. Creationism science unfortunately only perpetuates the myth that the two are at odds with one another, and that does more damage than teaching them evolution ever could.
 
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