UK: Flag-burning could become crime

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**Police chiefs are urging the government to make flag-burning a new criminal offence, as part of a drive to crack down on Islamic extremists and others preaching violence and religious hate, the BBC has learned. **

The proposals also include action to ban demonstrators from covering their faces to avoid police scrutiny, and tougher powers to arrest demonstrators seeking to inflame tensions.

They have been drawn up by Scotland Yard, and submitted to the Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, by Britain’s most senior muslim police chief, Assistant Commissioner Tarique Ghaffur.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6095260.stm
 
Stupid idea of the day. I hope nothing comes of this. The last thing we need is more criminal offences, when we’ve had over 3000 created in the last 9 years and the prisons are literally overflowing.

Ms Chakrabarti is, as usual, correct : *’"It looks like some people have been watching too many American movies.

“We will have to look at the detail of these proposals but the police already have wide powers, especially for dealing with people wearing masks”’*

I think it’s about time I joined Liberty.

Mike
 
I agree with Mike.

The Muslim protestors cough mobs cough need to eb more harshly dealt with but these measures are silly, and restrict our freedom.
 
The “banning” of flag burning will probably just lead to more flag burning in protest. Why bother. If what they want is attention, simply ignore them. Best way to deal with it rather than allow them to get you all riled up. By debating such topics, you just let the rebels win.
 
I actually think it is a good idea. While true it is a restriction of freedom, so are laws against theft, murder and beating-up your wife. All of these communicate, at best a contemptuous disrepect and true hatred.

Of course, I would like to see the law applied to flags of all of Briton’s allies. I would also like to see a similar law here in the USA.
 
One more thing.

Can someone help me understand how burning a flag is different than what another group here in the USA does? How is this it different than burning a cross?
 
rpp said:
One more thing.

Can someone help me understand how burning a flag is different than what another group here in the USA does? How is this it different than burning a cross?
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Burning a cross is a hate crime, burning the American flag is free speech … Yeah I can’t wrap my head around it either.
 
gilliam said:
**Police chiefs are urging the government to make flag-burning a new criminal offence, as part of a drive to crack down on Islamic extremists and others preaching violence and religious hate, the BBC has learned. **

The proposals also include action to ban demonstrators from covering their faces to avoid police scrutiny, and tougher powers to arrest demonstrators seeking to inflame tensions.

They have been drawn up by Scotland Yard, and submitted to the Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, by Britain’s most senior muslim police chief, Assistant Commissioner Tarique Ghaffur.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6095260.stm
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I’ll bet the flag makers are unhappy.
 
I’ve always held a very narrow view of “freedom of speech,” in that “speech” should involve words, either spoken, signed, or printed. Burning something is a gesture, and certain gestures should be proscribed. If Ahmad, Pierre, or anyone else wants to say he hates America, fine, let him say so (accent on “say”).

DaveBj
 
Christus_Rex said:
A flag (while important to me) is at the end of the day just a piece of cloth. Let them burn it all they want. It still flies freely for me.

http://www.1335.com/images/unitedkingdom_gl.gif
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👍 (nice flag 🙂 Yes. It may be important to say we don’t have the same kind of reverence for flags that the USA does (we have the royal family for that kind of reverence).

We’ve got a lot more important things to worry about than people burning flags. The police have been given far too many new powers recently as it is.

Mike
 
MikeWM said:
The police have been given far too many new powers recently as it is.
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And to be honest, they didn’t exactly go out of their way to enforce the old laws never mind the new ones. (Probably because they were too busy chasing motorists with fines for speeding or parking offences?)

A law against flag-burning? Just the latest dumb idea to come out of the mouths of a bunch of politicians who really don’t know what they’re doing. Case in point: the UK Education Minister left school without a single qualification but now sets the agenda for it? Time to convert to a Meritocracy based on ability over this popularity contest called Democracy!
 
Durendin said:
And to be honest, they didn’t exactly go out of their way to enforce the old laws never mind the new ones.
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It’s cumulative and selective. If there are enough bad laws, then they’ll be able to get you for something if they ever really want to. It’s an appalling way to run a society though.

Soon enough we’ll all have our ID cards and all our details will be on the DNA database. And then everything will be ok :rolleyes:

Mike
 
I find this idea deplorable. Yes, although I love this country and its ensign I have to allow those who want to desecrate it their freedom to do so regardless. This is what a free democratic republic is. My own opinion is to pity those who trample upon the very symbol which has provided their right to be abnoxious and stupid will eventually win in the end preciesly because it validates who we are and what we stand for. This is rock solid in our constitution. Stupidity is guaranteed in the Constitution.
 
Christus_Rex said:
A flag (while important to me) is at the end of the day just a piece of cloth. Let them burn it all they want. It still flies freely for me.

http://www.1335.com/images/unitedkingdom_gl.gif
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You may have a point. But I think symbols are quite important.

In the USA we have a group called the Ku Klux Klan. They are a white-supremisist group which likes to (among many evils) burn crosses. But I think burning a cross is a horrible sacriledge. It is, in fact, illegal in many states in the USA do this this. It is considered a “hate crime” as it represents the the racist views of the Ku Klux Klan.

Yet, burning a flag is an expression of raw hatred too.

I do not believe in “free-speech” as others do. I think certain reasonable limits must be set. However, I am no lawyer or law-maker so I cannot tell you. I do know that when you desecrate the symbol of another groups, burning a flag, burning a cross, you are actually calling for their death. Burn a British flag, you aew wishing the PM and Royal family an immediate and painful death. Perhaps all Britons. Burn an American flag, you say “death to America”. Is that hate speech?

It is one thing to protest, even stridently, your government or the the government of different country whose behavior you seek to influence (like South Africa in the 1980s). It is another thing to wish, or threaten, death.
 
rpp said:
I would also like to see a similar law here in the USA.
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Apparently 47 states still have laws against flag burning. A teenager here in Iowa was charged just last week for violating our state law.

Personally, I am indifferent to the issue. I agree with your later comment that flag burning could be considered a form of hate speech. But do you really want to have laws forbidding hate speech, as in other nations?
 
Dale_M said:
Apparently 47 states still have laws against flag burning. A teenager here in Iowa was charged just last week for violating our state law.

Personally, I am indifferent to the issue. I agree with your later comment that flag burning could be considered a form of hate speech. But do you really want to have laws forbidding hate speech, as in other nations?
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(Emphasis mine.)

You make a good point. Hate speech laws have be3en used in Canada to litterally supress Christian ministers.

Hmm… I might be changing my mind here…
 
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