Ukrainian Catholic leader meets with Canadian PM, decries Russian actions [CWN]

[josie_L]

Insult you? No. I’m “sanctifying” you!

Yes, I am being sanctified by your insults, because I’m not mad at you whatsoever.

 

[josie_L]

She might view what I said as an attack, but it was not. It was concern if anything.
Calling her a “blockhead” was unnecessary IMO. The level of emotion in an issue such as this must be checked. Something I do not see being practiced in the WN thread. We should be charitable in our responses, no matter how we feel about the information being relayed.
I am against war and bloodshed of any sort. So I am immediately suspicious of any news designed to illicit emotions without rational consideration. Since I no longer rely on corporate-controlled media outlets, I am free to look at stories much more objectively. Non-American sources, including RT have there own issues, but nevertheless give a wider view of an issue than say, if I relied solely on CNN or Fox. Emotional manipulation of a public, by news outlets, can be very subtle. Many times it’s not what they DO report, it’s what they ignore. Propaganda only works on an emotional level. Not on a rational level.
I can frankly say, the only media outlets I see beating the drums of war, are American/western news sources. Very similar to the run-up to the war in Iraq.
And that to me, is pretty scary.

I view what you said as uncharitable, not an attack per se.

 

[Melchizedek89]

I view what you said as uncharitable, not an attack per se.

Please, I ask for your forgiveness. While clear thought is helpful during evil times, love and charity are far more important.

 

[josie_L]

Ahh yes, the whole public vs. private political dichotomy insanity. They try to pump everyone full of that s**t at grad school these days too. You are defined by your actions, and Harper has been completely inactive in this issue. Having spent some time around a few “movers and shakers” in the political realm during my time at grad school, I can attest to the fact that many of them don’t seem… “normal”. I, for one, would be exuberant to give up a career in politics for what’s true!

Keep on doing your “evangelization” thing… maybe being “nice” and subtle to those in power will eventually work (never mind that it hasn’t ever before). The whole system is rotten in the western world, and if you’re a clear thinking individual who acts according to conscience then you have no chance of holding political office for any length of time.

I’m not talking about the whole public vs. private dichotomy, i.e., I am simply realistic enough to understand that our present government is not ready to reopen the abortion issue (although some related issues have been discussed), that being said, there is more than one way to change the status quo vis a vis abortion and the government, i.e., start at the grassroots level and evangelize people’s hearts, if there is more of us dedicated to bringing about change, if the pro-life movement keeps on growing, then the government will have no choice but to listen to us.

 

[josie_L]

Please, I ask for your forgiveness. While clear thought is helpful during evil times, love and charity are far more important.

If it matters that much to you then with a sincere heart, I forgive you!

 

[Melchizedek89]

If it matters that much to you then with a sincere heart, I forgive you!

Thank you!

 

[triumphguy]

Better watch out for those Russian operative grannies!

http://rt.com/files/news/25/13/00/00/donetsk-1.jpg

Or maybe one should watch out for those Russian operative miners who help make the backbone of Ukrainian industry.
theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/12/east-ukraine-protesters-miners-donetsk-russia

Apparently the Russians have operatives posing as Ukrainians:

 

[josie_L]

In my original post, I wrote that many separatist/terrorists are wearing the St. George’s ribbon, therefore, it is not I “disgracefully insulting” millions of Russians and non-Russians who wear it in memory of the sacrifices members of the military and others made, but the terrorists themselves.

In this, they bear a marked resemblance to the orange-and-black St. George ribbon, a symbol of Russian military valor that has become de rigueur lapel-wear for the separatists occupying administration buildings in cities like Donetsk and Slovyansk.

The ribbon, normally associated with Soviet World War II veterans, is enjoying a patriotic renaissance in the wake of Russia’s military annexation of Crimea and its continued standoff with Ukraine.

The Russian RIA Novosti news agency reported this week that close to 100 million St. George ribbons have been distributed “worldwide” ahead of the May 9 Victory Day holiday marking 69 years since the end of WWII.

Ukraine’s pro-Russia separatists, who wear unmarked military uniforms and deny any formal ties to the Russian government, have relied on the orange-and-black ribbons as a kind of makeshift marker of Kremlin loyalty.

When separatist troops first entered eastern Ukraine earlier this month, most did so with one or more St. George ribbons tied around their biceps or pinned to their jackets – a useful visual for the Kremlin, which has tried to portray the current unrest in Ukraine as a heroic, WWII-style battle against “fascist” influences in Kyiv and western Ukraine.

rferl.org/content/ukraine-colorado-beetle-separatists/25365793.html

 

[josie_L]

Apparently the Russians have operatives posing as Ukrainians:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/05/article-2574131-1C0F186F00000578-456_634x536.jpg

You’ll find this interesting too:

Russian TV Propagandists Caught Red-Handed: Same Guy, Three Different People (Spy, Bystander, Heroic Surgeon)

forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/04/12/russian-tv-caught-red-handed-same-guy-same-demonstration-but-three-different-people-spy-bystander-heroic-surgeon/

 

[josie_L]

Here’s an article by Forbes:

Inside Putin’s Campaign Of Social Media Trolling And Faked Ukrainian Crimes

Putin’s invisible social-media campaign includes fiction writers posting on fake Facebook (or the Russian version Vkontakte) accounts, pretending to have witnessed some horrendous crime committed by Ukrainian extremists. A second wing handles the shadowy distribution of photo-shopped or staged photos, again featuring Ukrainian atrocities. A third wing spreads rumors to destabilize entire communities and districts. No one really knows from whence the fake photo came or who originated the rumor, but they continue to spread through the targeted population.

I provide examples of each of the three genres of insidious disinformation by Putin’s social media:

First, Radio Free Europe reported in its Odessa Doctor or Random Dentist a fabrication following the tragic fire that claimed almost fifty lives in Odessa. Featured as a Facebook post, this fabrication is supposedly the account of a valiant first-aid physician, Igor Rozovskiy (a Jewish name, by the way), who rushed to the fire to render aid, but extremists denied him entry, beat him, warning that all Jews like him will share the fate of the fire victims. Rozovskiy plaintively ends his account wondering why the world is silent.

Good writing! This is enough to make anyone’s blood boil. How can such barbarism be tolerated? Quite a story, perfect for the Russian narrative of crazed neo-Nazi extremists rampaging through eastern Ukraine in search of innocent victims.

The good doctor’s post served its purpose: The Russian-language Facebook, Vkontakte.ru, gathered more than 5,000 shares one day after it appeared. Rosovskiy’s account was expeditiously translated into English, German, and Bulgarian. Why not believe the story? It seemed to make sense, after all the noise about the Kiev extremists.

**Not so fast. Bloggers, who investigated the good doctor’s Facebook story, discovered something odd. Dr. Rozovskiy’s smiling face turns out to be that–the same face, the same room, windows and background–of a North Caucasus dentist — in the advertising brochure of the Ust Dzhegmiska Dental Clinic. The dental clinic identifies the man on Igor Rosovskiy’s Facebook page as Ruslan Semenov, graduate of Stavropol Medical College, 1997 graduate, 17 years of experience, phone 7-19-68. I decided not to call Semenov in Ust Dzhegmiska. He has probably been bothered enough.

Shortly after Radio Free Europe’s discovery, Rozovskiy’s Facebook account suddenly carried the announcement that “this content is no longer available.”**

Notably, Putin’s invisible disinformation campaign is a carbon copy of the one Stalin used during the Great Terror (1937-1938) and World War II. During this period, the typewriter was one of the scarcest commodities and fiction writers were in high demand. Imaginative writers used the typewriters to paint lurid descriptions of enemies, conspiracies, and spies, written as confessions handed to the “enemies of the people” to sign. Similarly, the systematic spreading of rumors was part of the Stalinist tool kit. In fact, the stories have not changed over 80 years–the enemy is still poisoning the water, lurking in the woods, and planning atrocities with enemy agents.

It should be noted that Mr. Putin, as a young KGB officer in Berlin, was not an intelligence agent but a disinformation specialist who ran informant networks. He is just putting what he learned in his younger days to use, only now as the head of a nation.

forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/11/inside-putins-campaign-of-social-media-trolling-and-faked-ukrainian-crimes/

 

[josie_L]

Despite Concerns about Governance, Ukrainians Want to Remain One Country Many Leery of Russian Influence, as Putin Gets Boost at Home

A clear majority of Ukrainians agree that their country should remain a single, unified state, according to a pair of new surveys conducted by the Pew Research Center in Ukraine and Russia – after Crimea’s annexation by Russia, but prior to recent violence in Odessa and other cities. The survey in Ukraine also finds a clearly negative reaction to the role Russia is playing in the country. By contrast, the poll in Russia reveals a public that firmly backs Vladimir Putin and Crimea’s secession from Ukraine.

Among Ukrainians, 77% say Ukraine should remain united, compared with 14% who think regions should be permitted to secede if they so desire. In Ukraine’s west, which includes the central region around Kyiv (Kiev), as well as portions of the country that border Poland, Slovakia and Hungary, more than nine-in-ten (93%) think their nation should remain unified. A smaller majority (70%) in the country’s east – which includes areas along the Black Sea and the border with Russia – also prefer unity.

pewglobal.org/2014/05/08/…n-one-country/

The clear majority in Eastern Ukraine wish to remain in Ukraine! But of course, in some areas these people are scared, with pro-Russian gunmen claiming that only Russia, or independence, or something like that be acceptable. I’ve read stories on the Ukrainian press about how gunmen in Donetsk showed up armed at factories to force the workers to vote in yesterday’s faux referendum. Of course people were allowed to vote as many times as they wished and tens of thousands of ballots had been conveniently marked “yes” the Day Before the Referendum when people were supposed to vote.

kyivpost.com/content/ukra…-2-347222.html

 

[sabrefan]

Actually, the problems started when the Ukrainian (democratically elected) government was overthrown in a Western-backed coup d’etat, and the Russian speaking East (particularly in Crimea, where most of the people are Russian) didn’t trust the new, unknown, unelected regime. Furthermore, Russia doesn’t even want the broke, divided territories of eastern Ukraine! They’re happy with all the land and people and problems they’ve got.

Agreed 100%

 

[triumphguy]

Agreed 100%

If my country’s prime minister funnelled nearly all the wealth of the country into his own private Swiss bank account, with the collusion of others in government then I would absolutely take to the streets to overturn the government.

Putin, and the Russian oligarchs and all the other soviet era power elite who rule in the former soviet union are kleptocrats.

They have stolen power and now they are stealing the wealth of the nations they rule.

 

[josie_L]

If my country’s prime minister funnelled nearly all the wealth of the country into his own private Swiss bank account, with the collusion of others in government then I would absolutely take to the streets to overturn the government.

Putin, and the Russian oligarchs and all the other soviet era power elite who rule in the former soviet union are kleptocrats.

They have stolen power and now they are stealing the wealth of the nations they rule.

Agreed 100%

 

[Ridgerunner]

If my country’s prime minister funnelled nearly all the wealth of the country into his own private Swiss bank account, with the collusion of others in government then I would absolutely take to the streets to overturn the government.

Putin, and the Russian oligarchs and all the other soviet era power elite who rule in the former soviet union are kleptocrats.

They have stolen power and now they are stealing the wealth of the nations they rule.

I have seen people post that Crimea and eastern Ukraine are poor, will be a burden on Russia, and so on, and that therefore Russia’s conquest of those areas can’t possible be self-aggrandizement.

But the Putin circle is milking Russia too, and Russia is poor. There are some valuable assets in Crimea and eastern Ukraine, just as there are in Russia, and Putin and his circle will end up owning them all, just as they own everything valuable in Russia.

 

[KyivAndrew]

If my country’s prime minister funnelled nearly all the wealth of the country into his own private Swiss bank account, with the collusion of others in government then I would absolutely take to the streets to overturn the government.

Putin, and the Russian oligarchs and all the other soviet era power elite who rule in the former soviet union are kleptocrats.

They have stolen power and now they are stealing the wealth of the nations they rule.

Absolutely right.

And not just steal billions in wealth for themselves and their family and close oligarchic friends, but destroy the independence of the country’s courts so they as rulers are absolutely unaccountable to anyone; arrest the political opposition or co-opt and bribe the political opposition to make them useless; arrest, beat up and/or kill off inquiring journalists; take over the press so no criticism of the autocrat is allowed; and change the rules of all future elections to guarantee virtually life-time rule. Mafia states with autocratic rulers. Would not be tolerated here in the democracies, though some from here will advocate that the people over there have to accept and live in such a soul-destroying, repressive, unjust system.

 

[Aramis]

several of the separatist/russianist “governments” are using the .su extension on their websites. .su stands for “soviet union.”

 

[Catholic_Press]

Father Pavlo Zhuchenk, a Ukrainian Orthodox priest, has been killed in eastern Ukraine by pro-Russian separatists, according to a report from the Religious Information Service of …

More…

 

[josie_L]

20 May 2014

Ukrainian tycoon Rinat Akhmetov confronts rebellion

Mark Lowen

BBC News, Donetsk

It was a noisy new strategy by those fighting for a united Ukraine. Cars swept through Donetsk, horns blaring, some waving the yellow and blue Ukrainian flag.

It had been planned as a march through the city of Mariupol on Monday but was cancelled at the last minute because of threats from the pro-Russia armed groups.

And so Rinat Akhmetov, whose company Metinvest is based in Donetsk, has now called for a car protest every day at noon. There are reports that some vehicles were attacked by the separatists as they drove past. But that didn’t silence them.

This is the other side of eastern Ukraine to the one we’ve seen in the past few weeks: those angry at the separatism, at the attempted secession and at the masked gunmen roaming the streets. They want to vote in Sunday’s presidential election and are determined to have their voices - and their car horns - heard.

bbc.com/news/world-europe-27483719

Also, from the same article:

The United Nations refugee agency says at least 10,000 people have been displaced from their homes since the start of the crisis in Ukraine - most of them ethnic Tatars who have left Crimea, but also other ethnicities and those from mixed families.

bbc.com/news/world-europe-27483719

 

[josie_L]

Father Pavlo Zhuchenk, a Ukrainian Orthodox priest, has been killed in eastern Ukraine by pro-Russian separatists, according to a report from the Religious Information Service of …

More…

I put this in a previous post on this thread:

May 8 – (One killed) – Pavlo Zhuchenko, a 44-year-old priest of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchy, was shot near a block post near the eastern Ukrainian town Druzhivka, according to the Prosecutor General’s Office press service. Editor-in-chief of the local news website Ostov, Serhiy Harmash, reports that the slain priest lived next to the block post and urged Kyiv’s opponents to surrender arms. The law enforcement authorities have started an investigation of the case.

Eternal rest, grant unto him O Lord and let perpetual light shine upon him. May he rest in peace. Amen.

May his soul and the souls of all the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen.