Ukriane Proselytizing

[Darrel_Slugoski]

Sadly, lots of Orthodox just assume that we (Catholics) want them to convert to Catholicism.

This is true and there are Orthodox who would like to convert Catholics. Sadly I think that unity may only come through persecution or an act of God .

 

[Miserissima]

This is who I three out two new words, earlier, schism and heresy. Quotes from here: ewtn.com/expert/answers/heresy_schism_apostasy.htm

Catholics view Orthodox as shismatic:

“schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”

Catholics view Protestants as heretics:

“Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same”

To note in this article, " It was thus common in the past to speak of the schismatic Orthodox Churches who broke with Rome in 1054. As with heresy, we no longer assume the moral culpability of those who belong to Churches in schism from Rome, and thus no long refer to them as schismatics."

 

[Peter_J]

In the Catholic sense (please correct me if I’m wrong, Catholic posters!) the Orthodox and the RC are both inside the big circle of “One true Church” - we may be separated inside that circle, but not gravely enough to have broken off from it. The Protestants, however, are outside the circle of the “One True Church” but not outside the larger circle of Christians. This is why the Catechism says Protestants have the right to be called Christian brethren.

Depends. For example, Melkite Catholics list seven ecumenical councils (as opposed to say twenty one) so they don’t have much of a problem with the Orthodox despite their rejection of e.g. Papal Infallibility.

 

[Darrel_Slugoski]

Thanks. Perhaps I am misunderstanding something, because I’m not sure what the official teaching is:

Do the Orthodox have the fullness of truth? Do the Catholics have the fullness of truth?

This is a tricky question since we are pursing “unity” with them . However the Catholic Church see herself as the fullness of truth. At the same time there are Orthodox Bishops who see the Orthodox Church as the fullness of truth and that the Catholic Church has veered away from the truth with doctrine they disagree with such as Papal infallibility.

 

[Darrel_Slugoski]

Thanks. I didn’t actually know that Catholics believe this.

Something to ponder.

I don’t think that’s Quite right ?

 

[Taurks]

I apologize.

The way you look at Orthodox as in full truth with Catholics but with some differences is the way I see Catholics as an Evangelical. Would you say that this is accurate?

I think the Catholic viewpoints are a little more nuanced. It has to do with which churches are “valid”, which comes from Apostolic lineage (our ability to trace our priests and the Bishops who ordained them back to the apostles). If they saw an Orthodox priest, they’d say “he’s a validly ordained priest and can administer sacraments, like communion.” If they saw a Lutheran Bishop or an evangelical pastor, they would not say the same. But an evangelical looking at the same group of clergymen would just say about all of them, “they’re ordained” and probably leave it at that.

Secondly, do the Orthodox regard Roman Catholicism as the fullness of truth as well?

On one level:
“You ask, will the Heterodox (i.e. other Christians) be saved… Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins.”
-St. Theophan the Recluse

On another level:
Our Church has never made a ruling on the subject of how close or far away other churches are. To us, it’s not useful. Generally we view the Catholic Church as much closer towards our understanding of the faith than other churches. Often if a Catholic priest or deacon converts to Orthodoxy (like St. Alexis Toth), they usually will not need to be re-ordained because we accept their holy orders. But like I said, there’s no official decision about the matter - obviously we believe we have the fullness of the faith (otherwise we wouldn’t be here), and everything else is superfluous.

 

[Taurks]

Depends. For example, Melkite Catholics list seven ecumenical councils (as opposed to say twenty one) so they don’t have much of a problem with the Orthodox despite their rejection of e.g. Papal Infallibility.

Interesting - I was not aware. Thank you.

 

[wmscott]

I guess what irritates me is that when some Protestants feel the need to go on a “mission “ to reach the lost souls that do not know the Word of God and are in need of converting to Christianity. The destination is a predominantly Catholic city and country, my question is why not go on a “mission” to North Korea, Mongolia, Nepal, Pakistan, Afghanistan, or any number of other countries that are not Christian in nature. It is that “Catholic is not Christian” attitude that I find infuriating. Really just where do they think their roots are?

I had a relative that went on a “Mission” to Athens Greece, because they felt that the Greek Orthodox and Greek Catholic Churches did not spread the Word of God to the people of Greece.

They felt that they had to correct the GC and GO Churches because there were too many Catholics and Orthodox that did not go to Church. In a statement by this relative it was said that all the GC/OC was concerned with was holding Mass and doing all those rituals.

My issue is that they feel their Word of God and Personal interpretation of Scripture is above the Catholic/Orthodox Church and that they can do it better.

 

[Darrel_Slugoski]

In the Catholic sense (please correct me if I’m wrong, Catholic posters!) the Orthodox and the RC are both inside the big circle of “One true Church” - we may be separated inside that circle, but not gravely enough to have broken off from it. The Protestants, however, are outside the circle of the “One True Church” but not outside the larger circle of Christians. This is why the Catechism says Protestants have the right to be called Christian brethren.

I agree with this however didn’t pope B say we were the true Church which created a lot of resentment over this .

 

[dronald]

Our Church has never made a ruling on the subject of how close or far away other churches are. To us, it’s not useful. Generally we view the Catholic Church as much closer towards our understanding of the faith than other churches. Often if a Catholic priest or deacon converts to Orthodoxy (like St. Alexis Toth), they usually will not need to be re-ordained because we accept their holy orders. But like I said, there’s no official decision about the matter - obviously we believe we have the fullness of the faith (otherwise we wouldn’t be here), and everything else is superfluous.

This is the crux of what is confusing to me though. You’re saying you are obviously Orthodox because they have the fullness of Faith and yet the Catholics here have also claimed that the Orthodox have fullness of Faith along with Catholicism.

I’m just wondering what’s true to who.

 

[wmscott]

This is the crux of what is confusing to me though. You’re saying you are obviously Orthodox because they have the fullness of Faith and yet the Catholics here have also claimed that the Orthodox have fullness of Faith along with Catholicism.

I’m just wondering what’s true to who.

Apostolic Succession???

 

[Darrel_Slugoski]

I guess what irritates me is that when some Protestants feel the need to go on a “mission “ to reach the lost souls that do not know the Word of God and are in need of converting to Christianity. The destination is a predominantly Catholic city and country, my question is why not go on a “mission” to North Korea, Mongolia, Nepal, Pakistan, Afghanistan, or any number of other countries that are not Christian in nature. It is that “Catholic is not Christian” attitude that I find infuriating. Really just where do they think their roots are?

I had a relative that went on a “Mission” to Athens Greece, because they felt that the Greek Orthodox and Greek Catholic Churches did not spread the Word of God to the people of Greece.

They felt that they had to correct the GC and GO Churches because there were too many Catholics and Orthodox that did not go to Church. In a statement by this relative it was said that all the GC/OC was concerned with was holding Mass and doing all those rituals.

My issue is that they feel their Word of God and Personal interpretation of Scripture is above the Catholic/Orthodox Church and that they can do it better.

so true !!!

 

[dronald]

I guess what irritates me is that when some Protestants feel the need to go on a “mission “ to reach the lost souls that do not know the Word of God and are in need of converting to Christianity. The destination is a predominantly Catholic city and country, my question is why not go on a “mission” to North Korea, Mongolia, Nepal, Pakistan, Afghanistan, or any number of other countries that are not Christian in nature. It is that “Catholic is not Christian” attitude that I find infuriating. Really just where do they think their roots are?

I had a relative that went on a “Mission” to Athens Greece, because they felt that the Greek Orthodox and Greek Catholic Churches did not spread the Word of God to the people of Greece.

They felt that they had to correct the GC and GO Churches because there were too many Catholics and Orthodox that did not go to Church. In a statement by this relative it was said that all the GC/OC was concerned with was holding Mass and doing all those rituals.

My issue is that they feel their Word of God and Personal interpretation of Scripture is above the Catholic/Orthodox Church and that they can do it better.

I don’t think Evangelicals should try to convert those who are Catholic/Orthodox, but I don’t see an issue with them going to Greece, etc to preach to those who do not know Christ.

Secondly, we send people to the middle east and China. Getting into North Korea is impossible. It’s scary, but we do it.

 

[wmscott]

I don’t think Evangelicals should try to convert those who are Catholic/Orthodox, but I don’t see an issue with them going to Greece, etc to preach to those who do not know Christ.

Secondly, we send people to the middle east and China. Getting into North Korea is impossible. It’s scary, but we do it.

Well what about Salt Lake City just kidding

 

[dronald]

Apostolic Succession???

No my friend. Just our Orthodox friend who said he’s obviously Orthodox because he believes he has the fullness of Faith. I’m just wondering if every Orthodox Church believes RC’s also have that fullness.

 

[Taurks]

This is the crux of what is confusing to me though. You’re saying you are obviously Orthodox because they have the fullness of Faith and yet the Catholics here have also claimed that the Orthodox have fullness of Faith along with Catholicism.

I’m just wondering what’s true to who.

Ah, I see your question. I guess my Catholic brothers should address this since it deals with their Church’s position and not my own (if I understand correctly - I apologize if I misinterpreted)

 

[dronald]

Well what about Salt Lake City just kidding

Also scary. Haha.

 

[wmscott]

No my friend. Just our Orthodox friend who said he’s obviously Orthodox because he believes he has the fullness of Faith. I’m just wondering if every Orthodox Church believes RC’s also have that fullness.

My bad I misunderstood

 

[dronald]

Ah, I see your question. I guess my Catholic brothers should address this since it deals with their Church’s position and not my own (if I understand correctly - I apologize if I misinterpreted)

I would like to know both sides. Some Catholics here have said the Orthodox are equal in fullness of truth and some have questioned it. While the reverse can be asked in regard to Orthodox concerning Catholics.

 

[Darrel_Slugoski]

I don’t think Evangelicals should try to convert those who are Catholic/Orthodox, but I don’t see an issue with them going to Greece, etc to preach to those who do not know Christ.

Secondly, we send people to the middle east and China. Getting into North Korea is impossible. It’s scary, but we do it.

I wish all Evangelicals believed as you do . Buy the way the Catholic Church recognizes you as fully Christiain under Gods grace .