Ukriane Proselytizing

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dronald said:
I would like to know both sides. Some Catholics here have said the Orthodox are equal in fullness of truth and some have questioned it. While the reverse can be asked in regard to Orthodox concerning Catholics.
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Best place to look for the official line is in the Caticisim off the Catholic Church .
 
dronald said:
I would like to know both sides. Some Catholics here have said the Orthodox are equal in fullness of truth and some have questioned it. While the reverse can be asked in regard to Orthodox concerning Catholics.
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I apologize if my message was hard to understand - the Orthodox position is not reciprocal to the Catholic one. We don’t say other churches have 50% of the fullness or 100% or 95% or whatever. That’s completely superfluous to us. The only important thing is that we at least have the fullness, and as St. Theophan says, we shouldn’t be worrying about calculating the others’ percentages when we have our own souls to worry about. But to be sure we don’t believe another Church apart from us also has the fullness, otherwise we’d be in communion with them.
 
Taurks said:
I apologize if my message was hard to understand - the Orthodox position is not reciprocal to the Catholic one. We don’t say other churches have 50% of the fullness or 100% or 95% or whatever. That’s completely superfluous to us. The only important thing is that we at least have the fullness, and as St. Theophan says, we shouldn’t be worrying about calculating the others’ percentages when we have our own souls to worry about. But to be sure we don’t believe another Church apart from us also has the fullness, otherwise we’d be in communion with them.
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Thank you, this makes perfect sense. I also apologize if I was slow to grasp what you were saying.

Would you then say it would make sense to bring Catholics into your Faith or would that be wrong? If so, why?
 
Taurks said:
I apologize if my message was hard to understand - the Orthodox position is not reciprocal to the Catholic one. We don’t say other churches have 50% of the fullness or 100% or 95% or whatever. That’s completely superfluous to us. The only important thing is that we at least have the fullness, and as St. Theophan says, we shouldn’t be worrying about calculating the others’ percentages when we have our own souls to worry about. But to be sure we don’t believe another Church has the fullness also, otherwise we’d be in communion with them.
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Our bishops are working together to work out these Issues and they will have the final say not us.They are making progress and are now looking at the role of the pope. My concern is at the end of these descussions one of the Orthodox and/or the Catholic Church will not except some of the statements. I don’t believe there is total unity amongst the Orthodox and do not always speak with one voice.
 
Darrel_Slugoski said:
Our bishops are working together to work out these Issues and they will have the final say not us.They are making progress and are now looking at the role of the pope. My concern is at the end of these descussions one of the Orthodox and/or the Catholic Church will not except some of the statements. I don’t believe there is total unity amongst the Orthodox and do not always speak with one voice.
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I would love to see our Churches united and I hope I have not offended any of our Orthodox Brothers. Unity is desired by Jesus.

When one side see itself as the only ones who have the truth I don’t know how Catholic/Orthodox proselytizing will fully stop. Respect and love are the only way forward and God will do the rest.
 
JustaServant said:
Take my word for it, the fundamentalists are in no way, shape, or form trying create dialogue. They do not consider Catholic OR Otrhodox to be Christians.
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Sadly, this is true. However, I don’t think that it is a bad thing to remind people that there is a God. A lot of people in Eastern Europe may have Catholic or Orthodox ancestors, but they weren’t raised in the faith themselves. Atheism was the “religion” of most former Soviet states.

As a former Baptist, yes…I know that they aren’t interested in dialogue. The purpose is to “win souls for Jesus”.

Remember God can still use bad theology to draw people closer to Him, so that they eventually get to the truth. Everyone’s road to salvation and relationship with Jesus is unique. The spirit of God works miracles. (I’m thinking in cliches now. Sorry.)
 
I agree and unfortunately they do better job then both the Orthodox and Catholic Churches
 
Kal2012 said:
Sadly, this is true. However, I don’t think that it is a bad thing to remind people that there is a God. A lot of people in Eastern Europe may have Catholic or Orthodox ancestors, but they weren’t raised in the faith themselves. Atheism was the “religion” of most former Soviet states.

As a former Baptist, yes…I know that they aren’t interested in dialogue. The purpose is to “win souls for Jesus”.

Remember God can still use bad theology to draw people closer to Him, so that they eventually get to the truth. Everyone’s road to salvation and relationship with Jesus is unique. The spirit of God works miracles. (I’m thinking in cliches now. Sorry.)
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I agree and they do a better job then both the Orthodox and Catholic Churches, while we are worring about who the true church is.
 
dronald said:
I don’t think Evangelicals should try to convert those who are Catholic/Orthodox, but I don’t see an issue with them going to Greece, etc to preach to those who do not know Christ.
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I’m reminded of an article I read some years ago. I don’t think I could find it now. But the gist was that the Catholic side said It’s okay because we’re just bringing the unchurched into the Catholic Church, not those who are already Orthodox (I think they were talking about Russia) but the Orthodox still found it objectionable.
 
Kal2012 said:
Sadly, this is true. However, I don’t think that it is a bad thing to remind people that there is a God. A lot of people in Eastern Europe may have Catholic or Orthodox ancestors, but they weren’t raised in the faith themselves. Atheism was the “religion” of most former Soviet states.

As a former Baptist, yes…I know that they aren’t interested in dialogue. The purpose is to “win souls for Jesus”.

Remember God can still use bad theology to draw people closer to Him, so that they eventually get to the truth. Everyone’s road to salvation and relationship with Jesus is unique. The spirit of God works miracles. (I’m thinking in cliches now. Sorry.)
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While it’s true that some Baptists aren’t interested in dialogue, please do remember that Billy Graham and Charles Colson were two extremely influential Baptists. Likewise, the “Evangelical and Catholics Together” series of papers are all about dialogue and increasing mutual respect, and Colson along with other important Baptists spearheaded that effort.

Also, from the reading I’ve done this past week, I’ve gotten the picture that Baptist Ukrainians do seem to consider Orthodox and Catholics as Christians. Unlike us in the US, Orthodox, Catholics, and Protestants suffered persecution together as Christians for many years.
 
AbideWithMe said:
While it’s true that some Baptists aren’t interested in dialogue, please do remember that Billy Graham and Charles Colson were two extremely influential Baptists. Likewise, the “Evangelical and Catholics Together” series of papers are all about dialogue and increasing mutual respect, and Colson along with other important Baptists spearheaded that effort.

Also, from the reading I’ve done this past week, I’ve gotten the picture that Baptist Ukrainians do seem to consider Orthodox and Catholics as Christians. Unlike us in the US, Orthodox, Catholics, and Protestants suffered persecution together as Christians for many years.
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Unfortunatly the are in the minority. I of course respect them but if you asked your average Baptist they still have issues or misconceptions.
 
I would love to see our Churches united and I hope I have not offended any of our Orthodox Brothers.
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I also hope and pray for this too - Lord have mercy! :byzsoc:
And please forgive me too, brothers, if I say anything rash. I often speak without thinking… often I should better watch myself.
Would you then say it would make sense to bring Catholics into your Faith or would that be wrong? If so, why?
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When you say “bring Catholics in”, what did you have in mind? Putting religious pamphlets under their windshield wipers while they’re at Mass? 😉 (In which case the answer would be no of course). I don’t think the Orthodox church encourages proselytizing towards any Christian group actually.
 
Darrel_Slugoski said:
Unfortunatly the are in the minority. I of course respect them but if you asked your average Baptist they still have issues or misconceptions.
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Well, the average person, not just Baptists, has all kinds of misconceptions about what others believe, and that creates many unnecessary issues. We’re all guilty of that, all around.

I dunno—I’m not a Baptist myself, but I’d say Baptists such as Graham and Colson are not in the minority, but the majority these days. Of course, some of the adamantly anti-Catholic Baptists bark rather loudly, and that probably makes them seem a bigger presence than they really are.
 
Darrel_Slugoski said:
This is true and there are Orthodox who would like to convert Catholics. Sadly I think that unity may only come through persecution or an act of God .
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The way I (a recently-chrismated Orthodox) see things is more pessimistic: unity will only be possible when one side admits to being in error for the previous several centuries.
 
^ Ditto. You can’t really get more intense persecution in the modern day than the native churches of the Middle East are facing right now, and while it is cause for concern and prayer by all Christians, it doesn’t mean that we will be united with anyone who does not share our theology, Christology, ecclesiology, etc. These are the things that make us Orthodox and not Catholic, Protestant, etc. They cannot be compromised for anything, and certainly not due to persecution, since it is our strong commitment to the Church as we recognize it that helps our people to endure the kind of persecution they are going through every day in Egypt, Syria, Libya, etc. in the first place. Let others have their churches and saints and all that. it is not the place of any Orthodox Christian to mix Orthodoxy with anything else (and every other church is that ‘anything else’), and doing so or attempting to do so can only gravely hurt the church when it already has enough problems to deal with.
 
As an interesting point that sort of merges with this thread. I read today that the interim president of the Ukraine, just appointed, is a Baptist pastor.
 
Trebor135 said:
The way I (a recently-chrismated Orthodox) see things is more pessimistic: unity will only be possible when one side admits to being in error for the previous several centuries.
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Would that include Eastern Orthodox which have issues with the Coptic Church and are not untied. By the way both claim to be the only true Church. The Catholic Church makes this claim and each protestant Church claims that their interpretation of the bible is the right one. I am more optismitic ,God can do anything, and thank God none of us officially speaks for our Bishops who are working out our issues and are getting closer to unity then centuries before.
 
dzheremi said:
^ Ditto. You can’t really get more intense persecution in the modern day than the native churches of the Middle East are facing right now, and while it is cause for concern and prayer by all Christians, it doesn’t mean that we will be united with anyone who does not share our theology, Christology, ecclesiology, etc. These are the things that make us Orthodox and not Catholic, Protestant, etc. They cannot be compromised for anything, and certainly not due to persecution, since it is our strong commitment to the Church as we recognize it that helps our people to endure the kind of persecution they are going through every day in Egypt, Syria, Libya, etc. in the first place. Let others have their churches and saints and all that. it is not the place of any Orthodox Christian to mix Orthodoxy with anything else (and every other church is that ‘anything else’), and doing so or attempting to do so can only gravely hurt the church when it already has enough problems to deal with.
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Remember there are Catholics in each of those Countries who are also dying as maryters along side the Orthodox and each side is supporting and praying for each other. The Pope and all Catholic Churches in in Canada have been praying for both Catholic, Orthodox and Protestants there. I have personally represented my Church at a Coptic Orthodox special service in support of them during the conflict in Egypt. I think you should reflect on you comment.
 
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