Ummm.. thats not a mass!

[JKirkLVNV]

There is no replacement for Mass. When there is no Mass, there is no obligation.

Regarding the OP’s complaint, this is the only authoritative thing that can be cited. I agree with the poster that suggested that it might have touched on a matter of honoring the wishes of his parents (I don’t know whether he is of age or not), but there is no obligation as far as the Church is concerned. I WOULD take issue with anyone saying that this is not a legitimate service of worship. The Church affirms that it is, so it is.

 

[scylla]

I was going to say. Worship is what the Church says it is, regardless of what we as individuals might think of it.

I agree, 100%…What we think does not matter, truth matters, no matter what we say to deny that our faith is different from other faiths, it indeed is the only faith that offers the perfect Sacrifice to God.

Everything derives from the Eucharist and our expression of love for God only has value from it.

I agree that in a sense any sort of liturgy, prayer, service, even in other Churches constitute worship if you use the sense of showing love of God. This is used in the King James Bible as Jesus recommends us to seek worship from other men. Luke 14:8

Our prayers praise, thanksgiving, just like every other Christian faith is worship, I agree, yet the only perfect Sacrifice to God is offered in the Divine Liturgy\Mass. That is what we are obligated as Catholics to participate in each Sunday. Everything else is extra and flows from the Eucharist, but only has value because of the Eucharist. CCC1324

Or else we might as well just go down to the Protestant Church down the street, it certainly is more entertaining and often very comfortable.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[Lutheranteach]

You did the right thing, these “communion services” (which btw is a Protestant term) are borderline heretical, especially a women leading a group in prayer from the altar! People will start saying why not make them Priests? Read Chapter two of First Timothy!!

And a woman should never read the Gospel in public.

Of course not…next thing you know they would want equal pay for equal work and the right to vote…They what? Oh. Really? See I told you so!

 

[DorianGregorian]

Could you please provide an authoritative citation of a document where the Church describes the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass as its “only” public prayer? Thanks!

Read my post, I never said it’s the only public prayer. I said that and the Office are the Prayers of the Church and are the only ‘public’ prayer, other devotions even if ‘public’ are still technically not Prayers of the Church.

It’s not online but that’s from my copy of the 1962 Missal published by Baronious, Imprimatur: Bishop Bruskewitz.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Thanks, I’ll look it over, but what do you think, goo or bad choice??

**If there’s no Mass avaiable, you’re obviously dispensed from your obligation.

But if this Sunday Celebration in the absence of a priest is the best that was available, why did you cheat yourself?

The USCCB has allowed this kind of service under certain circumstances. And believe it or not, Mass is not and never has been the only service that is held in Catholic Churches, even Latin rite ones, as I have said elsewhere.**

 

[bpbasilphx]

\Remember though, the Mass is the only prayer we’ve had since the beginning of the Church, it is why archheretic Martin Luther said “If we destroy the Mass we will destroy the Church.”\

\This is why the Catholic Mass\Divine Liturgy is the only proper way to worship God as it gives to God that which is perfect and with which we can unite our imperfect sacrifices to make them worthy.\

**Both of these statements are absolutely untrue prima facie.

The first statement is false because the Church had the Office, derived from the Jewish Hours of Prayer, since the beginning of the Church, too. Furthermore, both the Lord’s Prayer and Angelic Salutation were delivered to us from heaven before the Lord Jesus Christ ever took bread, saying, “This is My Body…”

This second statement implies that the Divine Office, the official public prayer of the Church, is somehow “improper” worship of God, which is rubbish.

**

 

[bpbasilphx]

\ Originally Posted by malachi3 View Post
Why didn’t the “presider” just announce that’s what it was?\

Wasn’t it obvious to anyone the LEAST familiarity with the variety of services in the Churc just what it was?

 

[puzzleannie]

The only “public prayer” (that is the prayer of the Church) is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and the Divine Office.

All other devotions, even if done in public, are technically considered private.
."

please review the CCC section on liturgy
I did not list any private devotions, every example I gave is liturgy, public prayer of the Church. Yes all liturgy has as its source and summit the Eucharist–and all grace of the sacraments derives from the Eucharist, which IS the sacrifice of Christ perpetuated on altars of the Church as long as she exists on earth.

Mass is liturgy
liturgy of the hours
sacraments and the rites associated with them, such as the rites of RCIA–yes there are rites, that is why it is called RITES of Christian Initiation. Such rites are liturgy, part of the public prayer of the Church
certain blessings and so forth

the alb is proper to all the baptized, that is why a white garment is given at baptism, and it is the prefered garment for lay persons assisting at liturgy

OP gave absolutely NO evidence that anything going on in that particular time and place was irregular

since this discussion is taking place on the traditional forum (why, I don’t know) I won’t comment on the reference to earlier missals.

 

[peary1]

This morning, I went to a Catholic Church up in the Mountains. Unfortunately, the priest was who-knows-where. It was the only Catholic church in the area, and it only had one priest. I went in and started praying, as is my custom before mass. The alter servers soon came in, followed by the first reader, then by a woman dressed in an alb! When she went up to the alter, she immediately started, with the confession of sins! (I have sinned through my own fault, through my thoughts and my actions…). At this point I was really weirded out, can’t only a priest say that? I patiently sat through it, all the way through the second reading. Then the choir started singing “alleluia”; she went over, kissed the alter, picked up the gospel, and went over podium! At this point I left the church, in total disgust. I then remained outside, praying the rosary for the rest of the “mass”, despite my parents asking me to come back in. It turns out, that they were doing a community gathering or something instead of a mass.

Am I in the clear for missing mass, and did I do the right thing? I’m not quiet sure, but I would do the same had I gone back.

It wouldn’t have been a legitimate Mass, and it certainly wasn’t a legitimate “community gathering”, whatever that is supposed to mean! Sounds like it was a time for the lady to play priestess to me.

 

[otjm]

You did the right thing, these “communion services” (which btw is a Protestant term) are borderline heretical, especially a women leading a group in prayer from the altar! People will start saying why not make them Priests? Read Chapter two of First Timothy!!

And a woman should never read the Gospel in public.

BTW they don’t count for your Sunday obligation whether you stay or not, one is obligated to attend the Sacrifice not recieve Communion.

There is absolutely nothing heretical or even borderline heretical about a service that is approved by Rome.

 

[otjm]

It wouldn’t have been a legitimate Mass, and it certainly wasn’t a legitimate “community gathering”, whatever that is supposed to mean! Sounds like it was a time for the lady to play priestess to me.

You should have read the entire thread before you threw that one out there. Your ignorance of officially approved (by Rome) and promulgated Communion Service is showing.

 

[LilyM]

It wouldn’t have been a legitimate Mass, and it certainly wasn’t a legitimate “community gathering”, whatever that is supposed to mean! Sounds like it was a time for the lady to play priestess to me.

Nothing illegitimate about a Communion Service which is approved by Rome to be conducted on Sundays where a priest is unavailable. Not even if it is conducted by a lowly woman wearing an alb, since the female celebrant and the alb are also permitted by Rome for these services.

So not a Mass, but not pretending to be one. I know on those rare occasions in my parents’ remote parish where they have Sunday Communion Services they are well-advertised as being such rather than being Masses.

And certainly a legitimate Communion Service, assuming it was conducted according to the format laid down by Rome.

No, there is no obligation to attend a Communion Service on a Sunday where the lack of availability of Mass removes the Sunday obligation. Then again there’s no obligation to attend Good Friday liturgy either, yet any Catholic who truly loves their faith attends liturgy on Good Friday where possible, no?

So why would anyone who loves the Eucharist knowingly forego the opportunity to hear the Gospel AND receive Our Lord, in a legitimately-conducted Communion Service, of a Sunday?

 

[ProVobis]

But if this Sunday Celebration in the absence of a priest is the best that was available, why did you cheat yourself?

Maybe the OP wasn’t properly disposed for receiving communion and he had said prayers himself instead?

 

[otjm]

Maybe the OP wasn’t properly disposed for receiving communion and he had said prayers himself instead?

From what he said, that doesn’t appear to be the case.

 

[Mintaka]

First of all, it’s not obvious what it was. I’ve never seen such a thing, and I’ve been a Catholic all my life. I never learned anything about it in school, and I’m not that old. It may be common where you are, but not where everyone is.

Second, given the guidelines in the linked source, it seems that the person running the service (if a layperson) is supposed to position himself or herself as a layperson among equals, as if running a service of the Liturgy of the Hours.

Laypeople are really not supposed to run the Liturgy of the Hours from the sanctuary, per se. They can use the lecterns, they can wear an alb, but otherwise they’re really supposed to stand on the floor outside of the sanctuary, as part of their lay status. Monks and nuns generally also say the Liturgy of the Hours from outside the sanctuary, for the same reason. Only priests and deacons lead from the sanctuary. (Of course, some monks are priests and deacons, and some abbots have some of the privileges of bishops, so mileage may vary on this point. But I guarantee the chick from Big Bear or whatever wasn’t an abbess with the status of a princess elector of the Holy Roman Empire, so no matter.) Most parishes have a microphone plug outside the sanctuary and room to set down a chair there anyway, so it’s no big hardship.

For the same reason, you’re not supposed to copy a priest or deacon’s way of reading the Gospel, if you’re a layperson. You’re just not. It’s creepy to even think of a layperson kissing the altar and trotting over to the lectern to read the Gospel. Ew. Too closely associated with the Mass, as the link says.

In the case of a Communion service, it specifically says in the link that laypeople running the service can approach the altar to place Communion there and to pick it up again, but that otherwise they’re supposed to stay the heck clear of it. Standing by the altar and giving a talk or saying prayers is Right Out. The same goes for sitting anywhere near the priest’s chair.

So… it would appear that the OP ran into an abuse of a Communion service. Walking out was always an option since it wasn’t Mass; but also was a completely healthy reaction to sensing something hinky.

Leaving out the opening matter was apparently normal for a Communion service run by a layperson, though, according to the link… but for once, a little explanation might have been in order. I’m surprised they didn’t say anything for the benefit of visitors.

 

[peary1]

You should have read the entire thread before you threw that one out there. Your ignorance of officially approved (by Rome) and promulgated Communion Service is showing.

Get off your arrogant wagon, otjm. It isn’t even a legitimate communion service. where is it promulgated and approved by Rome that a woman dresses up officially in an alb and acts like a priest, reads the gospel, et al? Maybe you dress up as a clown for Mass, perhaps? It sure sounds like it.

 

[MariaG]

So why would anyone who loves the Eucharist knowingly forego the opportunity to hear the Gospel AND receive Our Lord, in a legitimately-conducted Communion Service, of a Sunday?

If I had encountered that, I may have thought something was wrong even if my parents took me.

I know once I was out of town, googled a Catholic Church, got driving directions, showed up at St. Marks. Got a seat and wondered what was going on when a women started to lead things.

I did ask a parishner and it turns out, I was at a Lutheran Church, just up a driveway, from the Catholic Church. But I almost just got up and walked out. I did end up finding the Catholic Church, but I don’t think everything can be so cut and dried when it comes to “recognizing” a legitimately conducted Communion service especially when conducted on a Sunday.

Respectfully,
Maria

 

[adstrinity]

Well, can we females still read the Bible in private? You know, assuming that we have all our chores finished, wipe down the table where we deign to set the Bible, wash our hands before handling it, putting on gloves just in case our hands aren’t clean enough, turn off all the lights, close the doors, shut the curtains and read it by a small candle? Is that permitted?

As I already stated, I attend the TLM only and we do not use ‘Communion Services’ in place of Mass. We do have to drive nearly an hour to get to Mass but we are accustomed to that and we do it willingly.

Well la-dee-fickin’-da! Not everybody does have that luxury. Some may have conflicting work schedules, some may have a body clock that will not permit them to attend, some may have the closest TLM over 3 hours away, some, like myself, may have it only 1.5 hours away, but, gas and tolls would eat at their very limited budget that could afford the meaner things in life like, food or running water, so, one has to cut back. I agree, that the TLM does not have the same abuses as the OF Mass, and it would be nice if EVERY SINGLE PARISH had one TLM a week, but, this is not currently the case and we must pray for those churches that do not follow the letter of the permissible law and that God’s priests do His Will, no mattter what.

 

[DorianGregorian]

\Remember though, the Mass is the only prayer we’ve had since the beginning of the Church, it is why archheretic Martin Luther said “If we destroy the Mass we will destroy the Church.”\

\This is why the Catholic Mass\Divine Liturgy is the only proper way to worship God as it gives to God that which is perfect and with which we can unite our imperfect sacrifices to make them worthy.\

This second statement implies that the Divine Office, the official public prayer of the Church, is somehow “improper” worship of God, which is rubbish.

Certainly I did not meet that, in worship I meant the context of the Sacrifice of the Mass, I apologize if I came off that way.

We had the Pslams of course from the beginning, but the ‘formula’ so to speak didn’t arise until the rise of Monasticism in the 5th Century A.D. Which to be fair is still bery early. I understand that before that the Pslams were simply prayed in numerical order from 1-150 every week, though correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Middleman]

I’ve been to a couple of communion services, one headed by a woman. No doubt the priest shortage contributes to this scenario.

In some nations there are fewer priests than here. Not too many people want to be a priest. I think the no marriage clause is a deterrent to most men.