UN staff killed in Afghan protest over Quran burning in US

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"Two Christians killed, churches burned: extremists respond to Florida Koran burning

In Hyderabad and Lahore, a mob of Islamic fundamentalists targeted the Christian places of worship. Desecrated several copies of the Bible. Anti-American slogans and demonstrations in different cities of Pakistan. The extremists pledge more violence, if Washington does not condemn pastor Jones to death. Bishop of Islamabad: the gesture of a “fanatic.” …

Entire article: asianews.it/news-en/Two-Christians-killed,-churches-burned:-extremists-respond-to-Florida-Koran-burning-21139.html
 
I know I’m going to be “flamed” for saying this, but I’ve never agreed with the USA’s view of “free speech.” To me, allowing people to spread hate and prejudice against others is an abuse and should be punished. It’s probably why we don’t have people like Jones in my country.

I’m unsurprisingly not surprised by the news it’s sparked violence. Jones should pay compensation to those who have suffered damage of any kind due to his idiotic actions.
 
LemonAndLime said:
I know I’m going to be “flamed” for saying this, but I’ve never agreed with the USA’s view of “free speech.” To me, allowing people to spread hate and prejudice against others is an abuse and should be punished. It’s probably why we don’t have people like Jones in my country.

I’m unsurprisingly not surprised by the news it’s sparked violence. Jones should pay compensation to those who have suffered damage of any kind due to his idiotic actions.
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Violence is in the control of those who perpetrate it, not some outside force.
 
Oh people like Jones do exist in the UK as well as in the USA - the difference is that Jones is “free” to do things like this in the USA to hell with the consequences, whereas in the UK we have much tighter laws on inciting hatred, etc so I think we can deal with them much better.

Although I like the concept of completely free speech etc (I think everyone has a right to their own opinion) I thought it was utterly ridiculous that the last time Jones threatened to carry it out, the USA government was powerless to force him to stop.
 
The law which made it illegal to incite hatred against religions only came in effect in 2006.

His anti-gay campaign came to a halt after legislation was passed.

Unfortunately, his “fame” for want of a better word as well as the political situation in Ireland would make it difficult for any prosecution. The UK government wanted to pass a law allowing same-sex marriages in Ireland yet postponed it due to (it’s said) Paisley’s influence.

I do not know enough about Paisley to comment fully, I’m too young. The above I got from Wikipedia.
 
By same-sex marriage, I meant civil partnerships.

But true, if you’re in power you can get away with anything. Diplomatic immunity anyone?
 
That’s true about the BNP. Unfortunately Nick Griffin is smart enough to not make really outrageous comments out loud.

I think that the BNP have been prosecuted for some offences.

I watched one of the BNP’s youtube videos during the last general election. It consisted of a white woman being interviewed by a bald white man, about how she was barred from a post office for something minor (not to do with a racial offence) e.g. stealing, causing an argument, jumping the queue - something like that. The interview focused heavily on the fact that her son was currently in the Armed forces and she was at the post office to send a letter to him. I wondered why the BNP included this in their videos. It turns out that the owner of this post office - the location of which was revealed in the video - was called Mr. Patel.
 
Agreed. Although I do think the Jones has a right under freedom of speech to express his dislike of Islam, I also think that the USA should have some law which allowed them to stop him to avert disasters such as this. 2 people have died in riots as a result of what Jones has done. As far as I’m concerned their blood is on his hands, but at least he has “freedom of speech” and has made his “point.” Ugh.
 
LemonAndLime said:
Agreed. Although I do think the Jones has a right under freedom of speech to express his dislike of Islam, I also think that the USA should have some law which allowed them to stop him to avert disasters such as this. 2 people have died in riots as a result of what Jones has done. As far as I’m concerned their blood is on his hands, but at least he has “freedom of speech” and has made his “point.” Ugh.
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2 people died because some people were unable to control their anger.

We should condemn those who act in violence.
 
iamrefreshed said:
2 people died because some people were unable to control their anger.

We should condemn those who act in violence.
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That’s like saying we shouldn’t blame the man who poked the lion in the eye with the stick, we should blame the lion.

If you know the Muslim world react violently to insults to their religion, you shouldn’t well… poke them with a stick. You can’t change how they are, but you can change how you are - therefore it’s Jones’ fault that these people died.
 
LemonAndLime said:
That’s like saying we shouldn’t blame the man who poked the lion in the eye with the stick, we should blame the lion.

If you know the Muslim world react violently to insults to their religion, you shouldn’t well… poke them with a stick. You can’t change how they are, but you can change how you are - therefore it’s Jones’ fault that these people died.
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Muslims are not animals. They don’t get a pass for acting violently.

It’s up to them to change their behavior, not for the US to change our laws to accomodate their violent ways.
 
iamrefreshed said:
Muslims are not animals. They don’t get a pass for acting violently.

It’s up to them to change their behavior, not for the US to change our laws to accomodate their violent ways.
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Americans are not animals. They don’t get a pass for acting aggressively.

It’s up to them to change their behaviour, not for the Muslim world to change their beliefs/convictions/culture to accommodate their violent ways.

See how it can be turned around? While I think the Muslim world’s reaction was excessive, was it honestly a surprise? The violence Jones committed was returned with violence.
 
LemonAndLime said:
Americans are not animals. They don’t get a pass for acting aggressively.

It’s up to them to change their behaviour, not for the Muslim world to change their beliefs/convictions/culture to accommodate their violent ways.

See how it can be turned around? While I think the Muslim world’s reaction was excessive, was it honestly a surprise? The violence Jones committed was returned with violence.
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No, I don’t see it. No one acted aggressively. They burned a book. No one was threatened or hurt.

Jones was not violent. Those reacting were.

The problem sadly it that the Muslim violence is not surprising.
 
iamrefreshed said:
No, I don’t see it. No one acted aggressively. They burned a book. No one was threatened or hurt.

Jones was not violent. Those reacting were.

The problem sadly it that the Muslim violence is not surprising.
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Jones did act violently and aggressively. Burning the Quran is certainly not a peaceful protest. Muslims treat copies of the Quran with more reverence than Christians are expected to treat Bibles, so is it any wonder they’re more offended than we would be of the same offence?

Muslim violence cannot be separated from the culture of the area. Just because in our culture we often express our anger with a snort of anger over the morning paper or an angry rant online doesn’t mean we can look down on those who are often more vocal when their religion, their very soul, is offended.

And I think those who died would think people were hurt. Is the lion to blame for being poked in the eye? I don’t think so. Blaming the lion for behaving as they were predicted to is a very weak argument. “But Officer, I don’t understand why he punched me - I only insulted his girlfriend!” - would you have sympathy for him too?
 
LemonAndLime said:
Jones did act violently and aggressively. Burning the Quran is certainly not a peaceful protest. Muslims treat copies of the Quran with more reverence than Christians are expected to treat Bibles, so is it any wonder they’re more offended than we would be of the same offence?

Muslim violence cannot be separated from the culture of the area. Just because in our culture we often express our anger with a snort of anger over the morning paper or an angry rant online doesn’t mean we can look down on those who are often more vocal when their religion, their very soul, is offended.

And I think those who died would think people were hurt. Is the lion to blame for being poked in the eye? I don’t think so. Blaming the lion for behaving as they were predicted to is a very weak argument. “But Officer, I don’t understand why he punched me - I only insulted his girlfriend!” - would you have sympathy for him too?
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In you other analogy, who gets arrested and charged with the crime?🤷
 
iamrefreshed said:
In you other analogy, who gets arrested and charged with the crime?🤷
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That’s irrelevant to the point I’m making. You said you are more sympathetic to Jones. I was asking you - are you going to tell me you’re more sympathetic to the man who was punched in the face even though he asked for it?
 
I agree; it’s the “violence” accusation I’m wondering about.
 
LemonAndLime said:
…even though he asked for it?
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Not to be unkind, but you seem to be making excuses for violent behavior and extreme reactions to small offenses. Such violent behavior cannot be justified. Ever. Marking people for death, actually killing people because a book has been burned cannot be justified. Ever. Such violent behavior just cannot be excused or accepted, even if it has become expected.
LemonAndLime said:
… “But Officer, I don’t understand why he punched me - I only insulted his girlfriend!” - would you have sympathy for him too?
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Your punching and girlfriend analogy quoted above would have been more on the mark had you said the man killed the other because of the insult to the girlfirend because that scenario is more comparable to the reactions we are discussing. Punching is not what some Muslims do when they are offended. They call for death, which is quite an extreme reaction which have no place in civilized society.
 
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