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SamH
Guest
Your own posts indicate that you know these things, or are your now claiming that Islam had nothing to do with these murders?
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salusanimarum17
Guest
Perhaps one assumption was valid. 2. Why lie? It gives these terrorists cover. Why murder Nepalese (I think) UN “workers?” Because a Floridian guy burned the Koran. The point is, I do not trust irrational, hateful murderers. 3. No, not always. That is certain.USA Today says he did it on Sunday usatoday.com/news/religion/2011-03-21-quran-burning-florida_N.htm
Why lie? If you just wanted to murder someone why make up an excuse? This was clearly the trigger. Until another motivation is given i’ll agree with what the murderers are openly admitting to.
You don’t think hate incites violence?
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salusanimarum17
Guest
Exactly right.
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lynx
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I advocate Islam in and of itself is not the motive or trigger.
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lynx
Guest
Terrorists want everyone to know why they should be afraid, otherwise the terrorism thing doesn’t work. Terrorists have every incentive to let others know why they’re murdering people. Hate does not always incite violence, but it can. In this case it did. If I shoot wildly into the air not all of my bullets will necessarily kill people, but they can. If they did then I would be responsible.
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SamH
Guest
What was the motive?
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revert_jen
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Well, I’m not saying that this is the pastor’s reason, because I think he is a nutjob. (yes, that is a technical term.
)But I can think of another reason to do it. A person may feel that the current state of affairs, where a certain group pf people feels that an act of disrespect thousands of miles away justifies multiple murder, needs to stop. A person may feel that the general attitude of, “You had better do whatever we say or we’ll kill innocent people,” is a tyranny that cannot be allowed any longer.
They certainly have the authority (moral right is another question) to put to death anyone living in their country who burns the Koran. They do not have the authority to dictate to us, using terrorist measures, what is allowed in our country.
I could decide that I don’t like it when women are punished disproportionately under Sharia law. Actually, I don’t like it. So, as long as I publicise (anonymously) that I will kill innocent muslims living in America if they execute another woman for adultery in Afghanistan, then it’s their fault if I go out and do it, right?
WRONG. They are responsible, and will answer to God, for their actions. I am responsible, and will answer to God, for my actions. I don’t get to shuffle the blame off onto other people by warning them that I will behave in an evil fashion.
The pastor is guilty of a lack of charity toward those Muslims who love peace. He is also guilty of a huge lack of prudence. He may be guilty of a lot of other things, like pride, and seeking out worldly fame, and who knows what else. What he is not guilty of, is the deaths of those people.
The people who died are heroes, who gave their lives that the entire world may not find itself under the heavy thumb of terrorists. I pray for the repose of their souls and the repentance of their murderers.
–Jen
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lynx
Guest
Do you not know my position after all this time?
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SamH
Guest
It seems to change with every post. But your “rational” is someone in Florida burned a book so some people in Afghanistan decided to kill some people from Nepal and Sweden. How the two can rationally be linked you have never explained.
I explained that is was because the killers were not rational but you claimed I was wrong.
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lynx
Guest
So, hypothetically, if a bunch of radical Christians said they would start killing non-Christians if someone burned the bible you would find it justifiable to burn a bible and let them know that you did it? This seems, unacceptable.
No they don’t, but we have a choice to either consider those threats or not. Muslims had already let this pastor know that if he burned the Koran violence would occur. He takes some of the responsibility for inciting that violence.
They would be partly to blame. If they knew full well you would start killing innocents then if they didn’t adhere to your warnings, they would be responsible as a trigger to your murders. In the end, you make the decisions, but if you want to act like a terrorist you will hold your own justification, as right or as wrong as it is.
Those people would probably be alive today if he didn’t burn the Koran.
They gave their lives so a media hungry nobody could get 15 minutes of fame. It wasn’t worth the sacrifice.
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lynx
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Maybe you should quote me on my inconsistencies 
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
The pastor’s actions were similar to ‘snake-handling’, the difference being more than just himself became endangered by his actions. Evident by the tone of this thread, we all know what kind of reaction would come from that type action. As irrational as it is, it is common knowledge of how fanatics react to their concept of having their faith infringed upon. This is probably why the Vatican condemned the plans to burn the Quran in the first place. The guilt lies more than just with those protesters, in my honest opinion.
Vatican interreligious council condemns proposed Quran burning in US
Vatican interreligious council condemns proposed Quran burning in US
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JaredM
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Radical fundamentalist pastors and Muslims living up to their stereotypes. Nothing new here. Feels bad that 8 people had to die because of some stupid stunt.
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the_phoenix
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Gotta give you credit, lynx.
You and I likely disagree on many, many things. That said, I admire you for standing up to express yourself on this topic and for doing your best to make reasonable points in a volatile atmosphere.
Seems to me there are a few Catholics around here who could benefit from reading the Bible passage 1 Corinthians 8. It talks about how Christians should not give scandal by their behavior to non-Christians with different beliefs. While the particular passage involves not eating meat sacrificed to pagan idols, I think some of it can be applied to Muslims and not burning the Koran.
“When you sin in this way against your brothers and wound their consciences, weak as they are, you are sinning against Christ. Therefore, if food causes my brother to sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I may not cause my brother to sin.” ~ 1 Corinthians 8:12-13
Try substituting “food” and “eat meat” with “burn the Koran” and you can see what I mean …
“When you sin in this way against your brothers and wound their consciences, weak as they are, you are sinning against Christ. Therefore, if **burning the Koran **causes my brother to sin, I will never burn the Koran …, so that I may not cause my brother to sin.”
…
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He_Man
Guest
Like I said, way to promote your religion of peace. So let’s recap: Pastor is a fool, and the Muslims who killed the tourists are murderers.
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SamH
Guest
Are you talking about Newsweek?
Actually many more died when they screamed that the Koran had been flushed down a toilet in the Guantanamo Bay detention camp. Despite the fact that the feat is impossible (to get an idea of how impossible try flushing a 40 page newspaper down a toilet let alone a 600+ page book). Eventually it was revealed to be a hoax.
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jakasaki
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news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110401/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan
KABUL, Afghanistan –
Afghans angry over the burning of a Quran at a small Florida church stormed a U.N. compound in northern Afghanistan on Friday, killing seven foreigners, including four Nepalese guards.
KABUL, Afghanistan –
Afghans angry over the burning of a Quran at a small Florida church stormed a U.N. compound in northern Afghanistan on Friday, killing seven foreigners, including four Nepalese guards.
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exoflare
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How do you interpret it when a person is said to have acted “violently”? When you hear that a movie has “violence” in it, what conclusions can you draw with certainty about the movie? I’m not sure why you seem to think it’s such an open-ended term.
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revert_jen
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So basically, what you are saying is that if we do not bow down to terrorists, we are responsible for their actions.
It is interesting to speculate which one of our freedoms will be the one which, when we have given it up in response to terrorist threats, will be the one which will cause you to change your mind.
There are radical Muslims who feel the whole world should be subject to Sharia law. Should we acquiesce because the terrorists will kill innocents if we don’t? Because if we continue to give in to all terrorist demands, we will get there. Or is it just that you don’t think the freedom of speech is as worthy of defending?
Desecration of the Eucharist is just as abhorrent to me as the burning of the Koran could possibly be to any Muslim. However, Catholics do not respond to this disgusting practice by the further evil of murdering innocent and unrelated people. So apparently our deepest religious feelings are of less account, and behavior that offends them is acceptable, because we are not terrorists. But if we started killing people, we would be able to get people to stop. Except for the part where we go to hell after we die, it is a pretty good deal.*
I didn’t say the pastor should have burned the Koran. All I said is that he was not responsible for the murders.
–Jen
*For anyone who is brain-impaired, e.g. if the Florida pastor is reading this, I would like to make it clear that this is dark humor and I am not in any way advocating violence by anyone against anyone for any reason.
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Darryl1958
Guest
To murder under the banner of God is the ultimate blasphemy.
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