Unconditional love?

[NoelFitz]

I have been reading a reflection about God loving us with unconditional love. Is this really so? He knows our most secret thoughts and actions. If we transgress and commit sin we are liable to go to hell for all eternity.

There are several Scripture passages that emphasize this.

But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, ‘You fool,’ you will be liable to the hell of fire.
The Holy Bible : New Revised Standard Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1989), Mt 5:22.

Please comment and reassure me that God really is love.

 

[budgie2]

If God did not punish us would we do what is right? Some would but some wouldn’t. It’s the carrot and the stick. Without the criminal justice system more people would commit crimes. I think sometimes God is just trying to frighten us though. If it doesn’t apply to us we shouldn’t be scared however some people do not listen without fear of hard punishment. So it is to save the sinner.

 

[Cachonga]

I use warnings like those in Mt 5:22 to check myself and make sure I am walking as I should. There have been many times in my life that I could have become angry, bitter, and cruel, however, God has kept me from these destructive habits through faith in Jesus Christ. God does love His children unconditionally (not every human being, but His children). Of course, like any loving parent, He also disciplines His children when we need it. I admit, there are still times that I get upset and say (and think) stupid things, but the Holy Spirit is quick to remind me of His Word (specifically, “… forgive us as we forgive others …”), and I repent and ask God’s forgiveness (which He freely gives).

 

[alphonseM]

God is many things; unconditionally loving, and also just. The issue is often, how to mete out justice and love. Mix that in with free will and you have the confusion that often results.

Perhaps one way to think of this is as follows: To maximize love, it has to be free (no one will get much out of being loved by a robot programmed to love). That implies the risk of rejection. If we reject God’s love, and further disobey His commands and harm others by sin, AND refuse his mercy offered by our repentance, then justice means we deserve punishment. We have rejected His unconditional love, and His justice will permit us to separate ourselves from Him.

But, if we repent and ask forgiveness, His unconditional love welcomes us back.

Both operate; both are true, and hinge on the operation of our free will

 

[McDonough]

How peculiar that not one thread has mentioned the sacrifice of our Lord on the Cross!
My first thought about unconditional love is what Jesus said when vicious thugs and pretentious hypocrites were hammering the nails into his sinless hands, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do?”
That is the only love worthy of the adjective, ‘unconditional’. It is the only love that ensures the forgiveness of all of us hell-deserving sinners. It is the only love which motivates the cry from our hearts, “My Lord and my God!!!”
Amen. Love to all,
McDonough

P.S. Read the book of the prophet Hosea for a parable of this ‘unconditional love’ which flows from the heart of God the Father.

 

[NHInsider]

IGod does love His children unconditionally (not every human being, but His children).

No, God loves all His creatures unconditionally - even and including those who reject Him. He IS love (I John 4) and therefore is incapable of not loving.

Of course, like any loving parent, He also disciplines His children when we need it. I admit, there are still times that I get upset and say (and think) stupid things, but the Holy Spirit is quick to remind me of His Word (specifically, “… forgive us as we forgive others …”), and I repent and ask God’s forgiveness (which He freely gives).

Exactly. Unconditional love is not incompatible with appropriate discipline - in fact it is an essential expression of unconditional love. Even human parents experience the pain of dealing with a dearly-loved child who rebels and must be disciplined. (Hebrews 12) Many know the extreme pain of being utterly rejected by that beloved child - it does not mean the child is not loved. (See the Prodigal Son parable - Luke 15)

Because God is perfect, His perfect love can never end, even when His beloved creatures utterly reject Him. He disciplines us because He wants us to be in relationship with Him, and that is impossible if we are not pure. The Incarnation and Sacrifice of Jesus are God’s extreme expression of His love - providing a way for any of His creatures to be reconciled to Him. It is not His will that any should perish (2 Peter 3:9).

The story of Hosea is a powerful metaphor for the unconditional nature of God’s love - even in the face of repeated rejection and humiliation, the lover begs the beloved to return and welcomes her back. It is even more powerful because it is not a father-son story - because it is easier to reject a lover than a child.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I have found no biblical basis for believing God ever claims to have unconditional love at this time. Nor can I find a single catholic church document that is on this topic, or gives this assurance anywhere. Perhaps someone here knows of one? I can find plently of instances where God’s conditions must be met or his wrath is poured out. Not sure what to make of that, except that your question appears to have not been addressed directly and instead you are given emotional appeals to believe God does have unconditional love, yet I see no basis for that given the bible has no support for that idea, and I can’t seem to find any other evidence of it by other means. Mere opinion on the matter via emotional appeal seems weak at best.
Good luck finding something more concrete.

 

[LilyM]

I have found no biblical basis for believing God ever claims to have unconditional love at this time. Nor can I find a single catholic church document that is on this topic, or gives this assurance anywhere. Perhaps someone here knows of one? I can find plently of instances where God’s conditions must be met or his wrath is poured out. Not sure what to make of that, except that your question appears to have not been addressed directly and instead you are given emotional appeals to believe God does have unconditional love, yet I see no basis for that given the bible has no support for that idea, and I can’t seem to find any other evidence of it by other means. Mere opinion on the matter via emotional appeal seems weak at best.
Good luck finding something more concrete.

Took me a minute to find both Church document and scripture (since it quotes scripture) - from the Catechism:

220 God’s love is “everlasting”:41 "For the mountains may depart and the hills be removed, but my steadfast love shall not depart from you."42 Through Jeremiah, God declares to his people, "I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."43

It’s not mere opinion - it’s God’s own personal reassurance as He speaks through His prophet Jeremiah. A love which never departs, a love which is everlasting, which love God professes to have, is surely a love which is unconditional, no?

And equally surely He professes correctly - He has no reason to lie about the nature of His love, since it would make us more obedient if we believed His love were only conditional.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Took me a minute to find both Church document and scripture (since it quotes scripture) - from the Catechism:

It’s not mere opinion - it’s God’s own personal reassurance as He speaks through His prophet Jeremiah. A love which never departs, which love God professes to have, is surely a love which is unconditional, no?

And, the audience in this case were the Jews. Can you find anything that implies this carries forward to anyone today? I sure can not. That is why I said “at this time”

 

[LilyM]

And, the audience in this case were the Jews. Can you find anything that implies this carries forward to anyone today? I sure can not. That is why I said “at this time”

None so blind as those that will not see.

What about Christ - who is God, remember - professing to have the greatest love of all - the love with which one lays down one’s life for His friends? Such a love, since it is the greatest, is certainly unconditional.

And for whom did He lay down His life? For all mankind, since He desires the salvation of all mankind. No exceptions, no conditions on God’s part to His sacrificial love as demonstrated on the Cross. Only our failure to respond to it and embrace it, through which we reject it and damn ourselves to eternity outside His presence.

 

[StrawberryJam]

None so blind as those that will not see.

What about Christ - who is God, remember - professing to have the greatest love of all - the love with which one lays down one’s life for His friends? Such a love, since it is the greatest, is certainly unconditional.

And for whom did He lay down His life? For all mankind, since He desires the salvation of all mankind. No exceptions, no conditions on God’s part to His sacrificial love as demonstrated on the Cross. Only our failure to respond to it and embrace it, through which we reject it and damn ourselves to eternity outside His presence.

Are you arguing for irrisistable grace? That is what it sounds like to me. Clarify?

 

[Cachonga]

Romans 5:6-8 say, “For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” (KJV).

Starwberry-Jam, who would give their life for you? According to the Scriptures, Jesus did. Not because you deserve it; not because you earned it; but because God loves you!

 

[StrawberryJam]

Romans 5:6-8 say, “For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” (KJV).

Starwberry-Jam, who would give their life for you? According to the Scriptures, Jesus did. Not because you deserve it; not because you earned it; but because God loves you!

Firefighters and police officers put their lives on the line for all of us everyday. I don’t worship them though.

 

[LilyM]

Are you arguing for irrisistable grace? That is what it sounds like to me. Clarify?

I said that we*** can*** reject (in other words resist) God’s grace and love, so I was clearly arguing the opposite of irresistable grace. If any of what I said sounded like I was arguing irresistible grace to you then with all due respect you need your hearing checked.

In a similar way we can resist unconditional love which is offered by others than God - by our parents, spouse or children. Needless to say our resistance, and the fact that we suffer when we resist or reject their love, does not mean that their love is anything other than unconditional.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I said that we*** can*** reject (in other words resist) God’s grace and love, so I was clearly arguing the opposite of irresistable grace. If any of what I said sounded like I was arguing irresistible grace to you then with all due respect you need your hearing checked.

In a similar way we can resist unconditional love which is offered by others than God - by our parents, spouse or children. Needless to say our resistance, and the fact that we suffer when we resist or reject their love, does not mean that their love is anything other than unconditional.

Grace is given at baptism, or not?
Anyway, I think I will simply let this go. This is the bible forum, not apologetics.
And, you see that verse as applying somehow to all people and not the audience that was being addressed, and that clearly was the Jews. We will have to agree to dissagree that it in any way applies to anyone else.

 

[LilyM]

Grace is given at baptism, or not?
Anyway, I think I will simply let this go. This is the bible forum, not apologetics.
And, you see that verse as applying somehow to all people and not the audience that was being addressed, and that clearly was the Jews. We will have to agree to dissagree that it in any way applies to anyone else.

Grace is given at baptism - and grace can be resisted. Grace does not work by force or compulsion, and I’d love to know where you got the very mistaken and unbiblical idea that it does. Judas received every benefit of God’s grace that the other Apostles did. Annias and Sapphira were (presumably) baptised and fully card-carrying members of the Church. They resisted the grace given them, and so can we.

The New Testament verses that I (and others) have quoted most certainly do NOT apply only to the Jews. That’s why the NT specifically says that God desires the salvation of*** all ***men, not just all Jewish men. And much more - such as there being no more Gentile or Jew in God’s sight, rather unity among men in the Body of Christ.

In fact Paul specifically wrote what he did on those points because he wanted to put to rest the doubts among early Jewish converts as to whether salvation (and hence God’s love which inspired Christ’s redeeming act) applied only to Jews or to Gentiles as well.

 

[Cachonga]

Strawberry-Jam:

Firefighters and police officers put their lives on the line for all of us everyday. I don’t worship them though.

They can’t save you from your sins and the punishment you justly deserve for them.

 

[StrawberryJam]

They can’t save you from your sins and the punishment you justly deserve for them.

I’m sorry, but I don’t hold the christian bible to be anything more than literature of the ancient hebrews. I realize it holds revelation to you, but it reveals no such things to me.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Grace is given at baptism - and grace can be resisted. Grace does not work by force or compulsion, and I’d love to know where you got the very mistaken and unbiblical idea that it does. Judas received every benefit of God’s grace that the other Apostles did. Annias and Sapphira were (presumably) baptised and fully card-carrying members of the Church. They resisted the grace given them, and so can we.

The New Testament verses that I (and others) have quoted most certainly do NOT apply only to the Jews. That’s why the NT specifically says that God desires the salvation of*** all ***men, not just all Jewish men. And much more - such as there being no more Gentile or Jew in God’s sight, rather unity among men in the Body of Christ.

In fact Paul specifically wrote what he did on those points because he wanted to put to rest the doubts among early Jewish converts as to whether salvation (and hence God’s love which inspired Christ’s redeeming act) applied only to Jews or to Gentiles as well.

I don’t recall talking about force or compulsion. But, this unconditional love is only given through grace, and grace is only obtained in baptism. That was my only point.
Sounds like there are conditions here.

 

[Cachonga]

Strawberry-Jam:

I’m sorry, but I don’t hold the christian bible to be anything more than literature of the ancient hebrews. I realize it holds revelation to you, but it reveals no such things to me.

Then why do you bother getting involved in a thread on Sacred Scripture?