Under what circumstances can non-Catholics be saved?

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JSmitty2005:
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

THEY WERE CATHOLICS!!! :rolleyes:
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Sorry, but they were Christians first, the term Catholic didn’t come up until later. BTW, as a Catholic, you are Christian first, then Catholic.
 
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mikew262:
Sorry, but they were Christians first, the term Catholic didn’t come up until later. BTW, as a Catholic, you are Christian first, then Catholic.
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The term “Christian” originated in Antioch and is recorded in the Bible. Curiously, the term “Catholic” also originated in Antioch and was first used by Ignatius around AD 107. This, however, does not mean that the term wasn’t used before. This is simply the earliest surviving record using the term. In any case, it’s a moot point. As for being Catholic vs. Christian, you’re creating a false dichotomy. They’re not mutually exclusive. You cannot separate being Catholic from being Christian or vice versa. St. Pacian of Barcelona said it well:

“Christian is my name, and Catholic my surname. The one designates me, while the other makes me specific. Thus am I attested and set apart… When we are called Catholics it is by this appellation that our people are kept apart from any heretical name.” -Letter to Sympronian, 375 A.D.
 
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JSmitty2005:
AND THIS THREAD IS ALL ABOUT HOW NON-CATHOLICS CAN BE SAVED! How many times do I have to say that?
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And I say, who says they need saving? In non-Catholic Christian’s minds, they are saved already if they follow their denomination’s intrepretation of Scripture. Who are we to say they are wrong? Only God truly knows that.

I’m a Catholic and will probably always be one, but this is one big problem I see in organized religion, everybody thinks they are right. If you don’t believe what I believe, then you’re automatically labeled a heretic. Incredible!! I can imagine God saying, “Excuse me, I will decide who is a heretic or not, and nobody else”.
 
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mikew262:
And I say, who says they need saving? In non-Catholic Christian’s minds, they are saved already if they follow their denomination’s intrepretation of Scripture. Who are we to say they are wrong? Only God truly knows that.

I’m a Catholic and will probably always be one, but this is one big problem I see in organized religion, everybody thinks they are right. If you don’t believe what I believe, then you’re automatically labeled a heretic. Incredible!! I can imagine God saying, “Excuse me, I will decide who is a heretic or not, and nobody else”.
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I can also imaginge God saying that the truth is not plural. I also can see God saying that he is not the author of confusion. Relativisim was developed by men who were humanists. Truth was developed by the divine God.
 
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JSmitty2005:
The term “Christian” originated in Antioch and is recorded in the Bible. Curiously, the term “Catholic” also originated in Antioch and was first used by Ignatius around AD 107. This, however, does not mean that the term wasn’t used before. This is simply the earliest surviving record using the term. In any case, it’s a moot point. As for being Catholic vs. Christian, you’re creating a false dichotomy. They’re not mutually exclusive. You cannot separate being Catholic from being Christian or vice versa. St. Pacian of Barcelona said it well:

“Christian is my name, and Catholic my surname. The one designates me, while the other makes me specific. Thus am I attested and set apart… When we are called Catholics it is by this appellation that our people are kept apart from any heretical name.” -Letter to Sympronian, 375 A.D.
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You didn’t disprove my point.

BTW, I never set up a Catholic vs. Christian relationship. One can be a Christian, w/o being a Catholic. However, being Catholic, also makes you Christian (some other denominations would disagree with this however; their ignorance).
 
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St.Eric:
I can also imaginge God saying that the truth is not plural. I also can see God saying that he is not the author of confusion. Relativisim was developed by men who were humanists. Truth was developed by the divine God.
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Ah, but the Truth is open to interpretation depending on who you talk too. Catholics believe they have the truth, and other denominations believe they have it. The majority of Christian denominations I think pretty much agree on a few basic ones, and probably the most important ones.
 
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mikew262:
Ah, but the Truth is open to interpretation depending on who you talk too. Catholics believe they have the truth, and other denominations believe they have it. The majority of Christian denominations I think pretty much agree on a few basic ones, and probably the most important ones.
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Then why do they bicker amongst themselves and seperate into further schisms on minor issues?
 
Mike, if you would like to make your case for religious indifference and doctrinal relativism, then do it somewhere other than my thread. Go start your own. Thanks for your cooperation. 👍
 
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mikew262:
Ah, but the Truth is open to interpretation depending on who you talk too. Catholics believe they have the truth, and other denominations believe they have it. The majority of Christian denominations I think pretty much agree on a few basic ones, and probably the most important ones.
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Have you surrendered to relativism and modernism? Because it sounds like that.
Let’s start comparing the Holy Catholic Church with more than 40000 Protestant denominations.
Where is the Truth? Is it In Unity or in division?
Are they saved? Only by “invincible ignorance”.
 
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JSmitty2005:
Mike, if you would like to make your case for religious indifference and doctrinal relativism, then do it somewhere other than my thread. Go start your own. Thanks for your cooperation. 👍
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If you can’t tolerate opinions other than your own, then I suggest you don’t post. :rolleyes:
 
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mikew262:
If you can’t tolerate opinions other than your own, then I suggest you don’t post. :rolleyes:
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I do not and will never tolerate religious indifference, doctrinal relativism, modernism, liberalism, or any of the other erroneous ideologies that Holy Mother Church likewise does not tolerate. 👍

“Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions.”
-G.K. Chesterton

I think that you need to stop being so open-minded. 😉
 
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doomhammer:
Have you surrendered to relativism and modernism?
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Nope. However, I’m not close-minded either. The topic of this thead assumes that there are only certain circumstances where non-catholics can be saved. Since non-catholic Christians are not binded by Catholic doctrine, what difference does it make what we say. IMO, they can be saved under their own merits along as they live true to basic Christian principles.

However, the orignator of this thread doesn’t want to hear that.
 
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mikew262:
Since non-catholic Christians are not binded by Catholic doctrine, what difference does it make what we say.
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I think that you have succumbed to relativism. Truth is truth whether or not you or non-Catholics believe it or don’t believe it to be true! And, it is my understanding that the pope has authority over all Christians whether they know it or not.
 
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JSmitty2005:
I do not and will never tolerate religious indifference, doctrinal relativism, modernism, liberalism, or any of the other erroneous ideologies that Holy Mother Church likewise does not tolerate. 👍
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Thats your opinion, and while I may not totally agree with it, I respect it. I ask the same from you.
 
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JSmitty2005:
So, are you open-minded then?
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To a certain degree, yes, depending on the issue. I consider that a positive trait, which I won’t apologize for.
 
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mikew262:
Thats your opinion, and while I may not totally agree with it, I respect it. I ask the same from you.
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No it’s not. It’s philosophically proven that relativism is false. This very post of yours shows (yet again) that you’re a relativist. The whole “you’re entitled to your own opinion,” “different strokes for different folks,” “whatever floats your boat,” “diversity is what makes the world go round,” “wouldn’t it be boring if we all believed the same thing?” attitude is relativism incarnate!
 
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mikew262:
To a certain degree, yes, depending on the issue. I consider that a positive trait, which I won’t apologize for.
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Open-mindedness is a sign of foolishness and intellectual weakness. Contrary to popular belief and political correctness, being narrow-minded is exactly what the mind was designed for. The mind is used for thinking and thinking itself is a narrowing process whereby erroneous propositions are critiqued and eliminated. I swear that some people are so open-minded that their brains have fallen out!
Here’s some more Chesterton for ya:

“An open mind is really a mark of foolishness, like an open mouth. Mouths and minds were made to shut; they were made to open only in order to shut. The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.”

And finally, some Fulton Sheen:

“America, it is said, is suffering from intolerance. It is not. It is suffering from tolerance of right and wrong, truth and error, virtue and evil, Christ and chaos. Our country is not nearly so much overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded.”
 
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