Underestimating American Collapse

[commenter]

commenter:

Reducing military spending will do nothing to protect America, because that money will be spent promoting the secular agenda in education, social services, and other areas. That secular agenda is what helps break down the social and moral fabric of society. At present the secularist politicians don’t have enough money to carry out all their schemes. Thank God.

I don’t disagree with how the money would be spent if it weren’t spent on the military. However, I think the military is the main instrument of the secular agenda. Look what has happened Christianity in countries the US military has attacked.

You might be right. I still tend to trust the military somewhat more than our politicians, but in the long run the military will reflect the deterioration of US society. (I respect the police, but I never, in my worse nightmare, thought the police would be assigned to keep abortion clinics open in my “Catholic” city. ) It is a different era.

A lot of my older friends at the K of C are veterans from decades ago, and tend to support the military a lot. Maybe they are right. Maybe not. I don’t think we will see an Eisenhower or Truman as commander in chief.

 

[RandomAlias]

In my previous post, I wrote that the author calls for a novel approach. The approach may be novel, considering how bad things are today, but the objective is well known and not new at all. Briefly, it’s the Christian world view. The emergence of Western civilization was made possible by the Christian values and principles which permeated Europe for centuries. Now that Europe and the US are abandoning the Christian world view, civilization is beginning to unravel.

 

[Bon_Croix]

I don’t doubt it.

With both parents working and employers providing childcare, etc…

Again, it’s the devil’s war on family.

With people losing their jobs so frequently, how can a household not afford to have both parents working. One has to compensate for the other.

Don’t worry, Big Government/Big Employers are going to make everything good with their whatever!!! yeah right.

 

[JimG]

Now that Europe and the US are abandoning the Christian world view, civilization is beginning to unravel.

I would say it’s been unraveling for some time. Now, what’s left of western civilization is just descending into insanity. We will probably end up in a new dark age of chaos, from which the Church will have to begin the process of rebuilding.

 

[AlNg]

Now that Europe and the US are abandoning the Christian world view, civilization is beginning to unravel.

However, Russia has been embracing the Christian world view as the Russian Orthodox Church is expanding and becoming more influential in Russia, thanks, in part at least, to the efforts of President Vladimir Putin. Hundreds of new Russian Orthodox churches have been built.

 

[Jeanne_S]

When nascent life becomes disposable at the whim of one’s mother ,then it naturally follows that all life will be considered disposable.We are there sad to say.

 

[commenter]

RandomAlias:

Now that Europe and the US are abandoning the Christian world view, civilization is beginning to unravel.

I would say it’s been unraveling for some time. Now, what’s left of western civilization is just descending into insanity. We will probably end up in a new dark age of chaos, from which the Church will have to begin the process of rebuilding.

The rebuilding has begun on a small scale. Homeschoolers and other families have taken a more active role in religious education. Where I live many families are choosing a new, orthodox Catholic school instead of watered down versions. People are aware there is a battle going on, unlike earlier decades.

Secularized convents are rapidly shrinking. A few tiny orthodox ones are springing up.

 

[Theo520]

And mandatory preschool means government funding. And we all know how well that goes with education.

Mandatory pre-school would be a superb driver in Union jobs for the education unions.

 

[normdplume]

This is a stunning statistic: Japan has one of the lowest rates of gun crime in the world. In 2014 there were just six gun deaths, compared to 33,599 in the US. [2/3 of US gun deaths were suicide.]

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38365729

Another stunning statistic: there have been 1.5M gun deaths in the US since 1968, which is more than all US wars combined since the American Revolution.

Source: http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...mericans-killed-guns-1968-all-wars-says-colu/

Unfortunately, there is no easy answer in the US due to the 2nd Amendment, which I can’t imagine will ever be repealed. The Sandy Hook and Las Vegas shootings left little lasting impact.

 

[Theo520]

Yes, knowing the victim changes perspective.

I don’t trust statistics alone, but I greatly prefer reliable statistics as a guide over appeals to emotion that rely on suspect statistics.

I googled “school violence” out of curiosity for the stats I shared, I’m not invested in the source but they look legit and are relevant to the claim in the linked essay. Maybe we aren’t in a collapse, maybe instead we are improving. Candidly, I was surprised that violence has been dropping over several decades, it wasn’t what I was expecting to find.

I only call out ad hominems when they are being used. Didn’t see one in your reply .

Things appear to be getting better as long as the tragedies have not touch us personally.

If, in one year, there are 500 violent deaths on campus, and the next there are 5, we can celebrate the statistical decline…but how much solace does that provide to the loss of any of those 5?

We can manipulate statistics to prove anything we want, like the undeniable statistical fact that 3/4 of the world’s population consists of 75% of the people…So?

Trusting statistics alone reminds me of something my father used to like to tell me about statistics when I would try to impress him with my newly gained university educations: “Figures don’t lie…liars figure”.

And before you go off on another rant about ad hominem attacks, I’m talking about the possible interpretation and presentation of statistics, not yours.

 

[Theo520]

Yea, Japan doesn’t have a gun problem BUT they do have a VERY SERIOUS ROPE PROBLEM. Rope is one of the major killers in Japan, I’m advocating that they ban rope, because clearly people committing suicide won’t chose an alternative method. Other methods aren’t as lethal as those bound fibers.

 

[Edmundus1581]

I don’t know that America will “collapse” – whatever that means. But I do know that our society is producing some children who are deeply damaged and who have no hope for their futures. I see a handful of students who exhibit those traits every single school year… it’s enough to break your heart.

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/catholic/original/2X/3/30808b55888140c7b68a90505b64d9f4a5e94e3b.gif

Quite apart from America and guns, I have no doubt that this true and that we (the west) are doing everything we can to increase the number of deeply damaged kids.

 

[commenter]

Quite apart from America and guns, I have no doubt that this true and that we (the west) are doing everything we can to increase the number of deeply damaged kids.

We in the West are not doing that much more bad things to children than were done 50 or 60 years ago. What is different today is that children have so much less good things. The enormous strengthening of mind, emotions, and spirit that once took place with stay-at-home mothers is mostly gone. The powerful foundation of a 2 parent family, married to each other for life, is lacking half the time.

The valuable support of nearby grandparents, aunts and uncles is often lacking today. We short change kids on siblings nowadays, we separate generations as much as possible.

As a result, our children are growing up far more vulnerable.

 

[Theo520]

I read this again and found a complete lack of critical thinking.

Someone had an alarmist agenda and prooftexted stats to support the claim.

Three weeks of school shootings needs to be put in context by comparing with the years of data we have on school violence, not compared to Afghan schools. Copycat crimes and sad, but common (see below article). If school violence isn’t actually increasing, then the issue is maybe about these crimes being sensationalized.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/health/contagious-mass-killings-study/index.html

 

[Gertabelle]

Gertabelle:

And mandatory preschool means government funding. And we all know how well that goes with education.

Mandatory pre-school would be a superb driver in Union jobs for the education unions.

Nope. And as a union member, I actually resent that comment.

When our district was considering putting a preschool program in every elementary, the union sad nothing, did nothing, just let the higher ups make their decision. And seeing as most schools in our district have something like 30% union membership, I don’t think our union is the powerhouse of influence you seem to assume.

My school has four preschool classrooms, and only one of those classrooms has a licensed teacher. Parents have to pay a very small fee (“tuition”) to enroll their children, the kids spend less than 3 hours in school four days a week, except in our “experimental” classroom that is an all-day program (the one that has a licensed teacher).

There is always a waiting list to get into the preschool program, and the kids who are in it do sooooo much better when they get to kindergarten. This is because of our demographics (non-English speaking homes, minimally literate parents, homelessness, etc.).

I’m not an advocate for mandatory preschool, but then, Colorado doesn’t even have mandatory kindergarten.

 

[commenter]

I actually resent that comment.

Thank you for your work as an education professional. “American collapse” is a very broad, complicated topic, with no simple solution, with many variables and exceptions.

I am a retired Child Protection Worker. Even though I post often on the “conservative” side on social issues, especially related to (forgotten) strengths of marriage and family, I deeply respect the work of education and human service professionals doing the best they can in a situation they did not make. I hope I made a difference, and I am sure you do now.

 

[Gertabelle]

Gertabelle:

I actually resent that comment.

Thank you for your work as an education professional. “American collapse” is a very broad, complicated topic, with no simple solution, with many variables and exceptions.

I am a retired Child Protection Worker. Even though I post often on the “conservative” side on social issues, especially related to (forgotten) strengths of marriage and family, I deeply respect the work of education and human service professionals doing the best they can in a situation they did not make. I hope I made a difference, and I am sure you do now.

Thank you for your work as well! (and for the kind words )

 

[mkoopman]

This would be true if it were true. The Russians faced a collapse of the authority invested in the soviet union. A radical shift away from Leninist agenda items occured and corrupt leaders saw advantage in attempting to harness a rekindling of religion. This is not the ideal solution but opening to The Spirit can only raise a people. Major restrictions on evangelization are a clear sign that the corrupt few have not found the ram they let loose in the field as very cooperative.
God’s strength and blessing on those sheep who returned to the fold. Jesus reigns, but His Kingdom is not of this earth. Nor are His ways our ways. The paradigm of micro freedoms and macro restraints works no better than any other social engineering principle, apparently. A corrupt welfare state based on abandoning or welcoming socialism does not form a foundation for flourishing.
It does allow some to engage in wonderful vacations, however, and really what word in Vacation Bible School is most critical? Both vacation and school seem the elementary first principle. Bible is just the stuff of the comic strip and full of adventurous characters. That is to say the ram may be brazen but the wolves are the ones “flourishing” among the sheep.

 

[commenter]

The Russians faced a collapse of the authority invested in the soviet union. A radical shift away from Leninist agenda items occured and corrupt leaders saw advantage in attempting to harness a rekindling of religion. This is not the ideal solution but opening to The Spirit can only raise a people. Major restrictions on evangelization are a clear sign that the corrupt few have not found the ram they let loose in the field as very cooperative.

These current Russian leaders who allow some loosening of restraints on some religious expressions may have ulterior motives. They rightly recognize religion as a social benefit to the nation, whether or not there is a
God. But this opening can be used and expanded by people who know religion is more than a social benefit. God can use people’s secondary purpose, too.

In the USA, we recently had a president, aligned with the Established Media, who supported considerable restraints on religious views contrary to his own, especially anything related to prolife. He was replaced by a president who removed those restraints it was in his power to do, and is aligned with people who will, if able, remove more restraints eventually.

Some have pointed out that the US president, like the Russian one, may have a primary motive to appeal to a political constituency, that reducing abortion is only a secondary purpose.

Suppose a fireman pulls a baby out of a burning house. I suppose it’s nicer if the fireman is sincere, rather than insincere, doing it for applause, but the main thing is that the baby is saved. Yeah, I’ll accept secondary purposes.

 

[Theo520]

Nope. And as a union member, I actually resent that comment.

Tuff nuggies, the news articles on the topic make it clear the unions have been consistently putting their muscle and money behind the push for govt funded pre-school.

Just because the union in your state isn’t following the norm, it doesn’t mean you can assume your experience represents the country.

I am against this approach because I don’t think it solves problems. We should help the parents be better parents, and instruct and bond with their child at this age. I also recall the research on Head Start showed the benefits were more temporary than long lasting. That’s why I’d like the focus to be on parents being better parents rather than replacing them with more school time.