Understanding Islamic Views

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Cinette said:
Muslims often affirm, and no doubt sincerely, that Islam is a religion of peace and love. Because of such statements that sometimes appear to be contradicted by fact I decided to read the Quran and try to verify things for myself.
For example, the first Surah, which is, I understand, recited daily, says in Ayats 6 and 7:
6. Guide us to the Straight Way.
7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace,
not the way of those who have earned Your Anger,
nor of those who went astray.

All this seems innocuous enough. Those on whom Allah’s Grace has been bestowed are the Muslims who follow the Way of the Quran. But, who are those who have earned Your Anger”? We find in a note:
Narrated by Adi bin Hatim (a companion of the Prophet pbwh) I asked Allah’s Messenger about the statement of Allah: 1. and he replied: “ They are the Jews” And 2. He replied “The Christians and they are the ones who went astray”.
Further, this Hadith is quoted by At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud.

I know that in a couple of Ayats Muslims are urged to treat Jews and Christians kindly but this is an exception. It looks more like an afterthought abrogated elsewhere. Furthermore, what kind of feeling, towards Jews and Christians, is created by such descriptions of them?

It is obvious that Allah does not like Christians and Jews, so why should Muslims?

I would like some explanation on the above before advancing to other questions.

Cinette
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The innocuous verses are the verses used to impress the ignorant. The less innocuous and downright toxic verses…ie; “there is a Jew behind that rock…kill him…” are used to guide the violent muslim, of which there are numerous.
 
hamba2han said:
The Qur’an is the verbatim Speech of the Lord and Creator of all that exists in the Universe.

I have therefore quoted you His promise to Christians on who He will reward in Paradise.

It is not possible for Muslims to give Christians a better assurance about their likely fate in the Hereafter than what the Master of the Day of Judgment has said in the Qur’an.
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*I also quoted from the Quran. I wanted an explanation of that Ayat not another quotation. As you know Ayat 7 of Surah 1 describes Jews as those who incur the wrath of Allah.

I worked for IBM and went on courses where, besides myself as a Christian there were Jews and Muslims. Everybody got on well and in spite of our differing religious beliefs. We all accepted one another.

However we see from what I quoted that Allah looks on all Jews in the same light namely that they incur the wrath of God. This I don’t understand and I would like an explanation. Later, we can go on to other parts of the Quran which I fail to understand.

Cinette:) *
 
hamba2han said:
The Qur’an is the verbatim Speech of the Lord and Creator of all that exists in the Universe.

I have therefore quoted you His promise to Christians on who He will reward in Paradise.

It is not possible for Muslims to give Christians a better assurance about their likely fate in the Hereafter than what the Master of the Day of Judgment has said in the Qur’an.
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I, for one, would be more than happy to accept my fate as decided by the one true God and not by zealous and violent muslims who believe that I should go before Him as soon as they can send me.
 
hamba2han said:
The Qur’an is the verbatim Speech of the Lord and Creator of all that exists in the Universe.

I have therefore quoted you His promise to Christians on who He will reward in Paradise.

It is not possible for Muslims to give Christians a better assurance about their likely fate in the Hereafter than what the Master of the Day of Judgment has said in the Qur’an.
Click to expand...
So you say. But, you are very wrong. Your soul is in serious jeopardy by denying Christ.
 
hamba2han said:
The Qur’an is the verbatim Speech of the Lord and Creator of all that exists in the Universe.

I have therefore quoted you His promise to Christians on who He will reward in Paradise.

It is not possible for Muslims to give Christians a better assurance about their likely fate in the Hereafter than what the Master of the Day of Judgment has said in the Qur’an.
Click to expand...
How can it be “the verbatim speech of the Creator” when it states that the earth is flat? What kind of creator would concoct a book as incoherent as the Quran, and fill it with so much hatred and violence?

"A confused jumble, crude, incondite; endless iterations, long-windedness, entanglement; most crude, incondite, insupportable stupidity in short.” That’s historian Thomas Carlyle’s description of the Koran—and he was fairly sympathetic to Islam.

Vickie
 
Booklover said:
How can it be “the verbatim speech of the Creator” when it states that the earth is flat? What kind of creator would concoct a book as incoherent as the Quran, and fill it with so much hatred and violence?

"A confused jumble, crude, incondite; endless iterations, long-windedness, entanglement; most crude, incondite, insupportable stupidity in short.” That’s historian Thomas Carlyle’s description of the Koran—and he was fairly sympathetic to Islam.

Vickie
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You mean the earth isn’t flat? I knew God could be wrong. NOT!
 
Cinette said:
Muslims often affirm, and no doubt sincerely, that Islam is a religion of peace and love. Because of such statements that sometimes appear to be contradicted by fact I decided to read the Quran and try to verify things for myself.
For example, the first Surah, which is, I understand, recited daily, says in Ayats 6 and 7:
6. Guide us to the Straight Way.
7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace,
not the way of those who have earned Your Anger,
nor of those who went astray.

All this seems innocuous enough. Those on whom Allah’s Grace has been bestowed are the Muslims who follow the Way of the Quran. But, who are those who have earned Your Anger”? We find in a note:

Narrated by Adi bin Hatim (a companion of the Prophet pbwh) I asked Allah’s Messenger about the statement of Allah: 1. and he replied: “ They are the Jews” And 2. He replied “The Christians and they are the ones who went astray”.
Further, this Hadith is quoted by At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud.

I know that in a couple of Ayats Muslims are urged to treat Jews and Christians kindly but this is an exception. It looks more like an afterthought abrogated elsewhere. Furthermore, what kind of feeling, towards Jews and Christians, is created by such descriptions of them?

It is obvious that Allah does not like Christians and Jews, so why should Muslims?

I would like some explanation on the above before advancing to other questions.

Cinette
Click to expand...
Being that CAF muslim member Hamba is a Sunni - he will not recognize At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud as authentic hadith writters… and most likely declare them false…

But, I could be wrong… 🤷
 
jakasaki said:
Being that CAF muslim member Hamba is a Sunni - he will not recognize At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud as authentic hadith writters… and most likely declare them false…

But, I could be wrong… 🤷
Click to expand...
Not likely 🙂
 
jakasaki said:
Being that CAF muslim member Hamba is a Sunni - he will not recognize At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud as authentic hadith writters… and most likely declare them false…

But, I could be wrong… 🤷
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I’ve been doing extensive reading on islam. It’s amazing how all but the sunnis have perverted the religion.

At least they’ve got Al-queda and the Taliban to back them up. KILL KILL KILL!
 
*I thought I would read the Quran to see for myself and am reading two Qurans (one is for western consumption because it is mild!) and it is terrible to see the hatred. You read a verse in the one Quran and it says to kill and hate Jews and Christians and in the other Quran they are not so explicit!!

For us Christians God is loving and merciful. The bible tells us to love and to forgive. The Quran is not like that at all.

I would really like to get some answers from Muslims but where have all the Muslims gone? They are not on the forum??

Cinette:)*
 
Cinette said:
*I thought I would read the Quran to see for myself and am reading two Qurans (one is for western consumption because it is mild!) and it is terrible to see the hatred. You read a verse in the one Quran and it says to kill and hate Jews and Christians and in the other Quran they are not so explicit!!

For us Christians God is loving and merciful. The bible tells us to love and to forgive. The Quran is not like that at all.

I would really like to get some answers from Muslims but where have all the Muslims gone? They are not on the forum??

Cinette:)*
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They’re on the forum, they just don’t want to answer truthfully to the questions you’ve asked. Could and angel of God spew such hate?
 
Cinette said:
*I thought I would read the Quran to see for myself and am reading two Qurans (one is for western consumption because it is mild!) and it is terrible to see the hatred. You read a verse in the one Quran and it says to kill and hate Jews and Christians and in the other Quran they are not so explicit!!

For us Christians God is loving and merciful. The bible tells us to love and to forgive. The Quran is not like that at all.

I would really like to get some answers from Muslims but where have all the Muslims gone? They are not on the forum??

Cinette:)*
Click to expand...
You need to understand when reading the koran, that it was not written in chronological order… meaning the way mohamad claimed to receive his so called “revelations”.

For example, it is claimed that mohamads first revelation was when a spirit squeezed him in a cave and kept telling him to recite… etc…
1 Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-
2 Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:
3 Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,-
4 He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-
5 Taught man that which he knew not.
6 Nay, but man doth transgress all bounds,
7 In that he looketh upon himself as self-sufficient.
8 Verily, to thy Lord is the return (of all).
9 Seest thou one who forbids-
10 A votary when he (turns) to pray?
11 Seest thou if he is on (the road of) Guidance?-
12 Or enjoins Righteousness?
13 Seest thou if he denies (Truth) and turns away?
14 Knoweth he not that Allah doth see?
15 Let him beware! If he desist not, We will drag him by the forelock,-
16 A lying, sinful forelock!
17 Then, let him call (for help) to his council (of comrades):
18 We will call on the angels of punishment (to deal with him)!
19 Day, heed him not: But bow down in adoration, and bring thyself the closer (to Allah.!
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This was mohamads 1st “revelation” but does not open as the first chapter in the koran… it is the 96th chapter/surah.

And also, keep in mind that when mohamad claimed to be a “prophet” of allah, he started out in Mecca… when you read the surah’s from Mecca they are pretty decent… but when the Jews & Christians tested his prophetic call and mohamad could not convince them that he was a prophet of GOD… he turned very mean & angry and started wars & killings… you’ll see the anger of mohamad in the Medina surahs…

But because the koran suras & ayahs are all over the place, it leaves you with your head scratching because it does not make sence…

It is also written in hadiths that some “revelations” never made it into the koran, therefore it is not complete.

It was Uthman, the 4th caliph who put the koran into a "BOOK’ and had all other korans destroyed…
 
jakasaki said:
And also, keep in mind that when mohamad claimed to be a “prophet” of allah, he started out in Mecca… when you read the surah’s from Mecca they are pretty decent… but when the Jews & Christians tested his prophetic call and mohamad could not convince them that he was a prophet of GOD… he turned very mean & angry and started wars & killings… you’ll see the anger of mohamad in the Medina surahs…
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That’s what liars do when they don’t have a leg to stand on. Lash out!
 
I kind of like the great art:

Dante’s Inferno.

Where’s mohammad in that painting?

Merely stating appreciation for great art and it’s religious foundation. There are lot’s of priests and bishops holding hands with mohammad.
 
Cinette said:
*I thought I would read the Quran to see for myself and am reading two Qurans (one is for western consumption because it is mild!) and it is terrible to see the hatred. You read a verse in the one Quran and it says to kill and hate Jews and Christians and in the other Quran they are not so explicit!!

For us Christians God is loving and merciful. The bible tells us to love and to forgive. The Quran is not like that at all.

I would really like to get some answers from Muslims but where have all the Muslims gone? They are not on the forum??

Cinette:)*
Click to expand...
Think of the Qur’an as the map to guide us through the journey of life and think of the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the accompanying legend by which to correctly read this map.

Therefore, reading the Qur’an alone will not be enough to truly understand the Message of Islam because you will also need to refer to the Sunnah in order to not misinterpret the Qur’an.

To remedy this situation, I would suggest that you read this very comprehensive crash course on the major teachings of the Sunnah.

By properly learning this very well-known collection of ahadith, I would dare say that your level of understanding of the true teachings of Islam would, God-willing, be higher than that of most Muslims in the world.
 
hamba2han said:
Think of the Qur’an as the map to guide us through the journey of life and think of the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the accompanying legend by which to correctly read this map.

Therefore, reading the Qur’an alone will not be enough to truly understand the Message of Islam because you will also need to refer to the Sunnah in order to not misinterpret the Qur’an.

To remedy this situation, I would suggest that you read this very comprehensive crash course on the major teachings of the Sunnah.

By properly learning this very well-known collection of ahadith, I would dare say that your level of understanding of the true teachings of Islam would, God-willing, be higher than that of most Muslims in the world.
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The the sunnah is corrupted by men. It’s hardly the word of God. Just another fabrication by a heretic.
 
hamba2han said:
At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud were indeed scholars in Sunni Islam.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Sunni_Muslim_scholars_of_Islam
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I kind of think it’s funny. The questions/comments I presented are fully grounded. Yet muslims refuse to answer them.

So, my question is, what is the purpose of this thread? Christians must continuously come up with reasons that Christianity is the ONE TRUE RELIGION, and muslims just present excuses or nonsense. They use nothing to prove the Bible is corrupted except their own text. When it suits their purpose they turn to the Bible to show us we’re wrong. Forget the fact that they claim it’s corrupt. We stand on the Bible and use nothing more. They use every false resource at their hands.

To be suspended or banned on this forum for saying that islam is not a religion of God would be the same as being insulted for Jesus’ name. If islam is correct, then Jesus (pbuh as muslims would say), would be nothing more than a MAN. That’s it. A mere person as you and I. Nothing special about Him except that He was a teacher who went against the tide all the time. Our religion is heresy.

As Jesus asked just before leaving earth, and I paraphrase:

Will there be any true faith left when I return?

I don’t understand the continual process of debating the issue with muslims that continuously tell us that Jesus is just a little itsy bitsy teeny weeny creation of God. Just like a regular person. Yep, just like me and you.

The debate goes on and on and muslims quote any source that suits their needs. The claim the New and Old Testaments are corrupted by us kafir (infidels), non-believers. But use it when the text suits there warped interpretation. And we Christians keep going back and forth. They are not open to the truth. Rather than go the max to debate them, we should all just spend that time praying for them. According to Jesus their souls are in serious trouble.
 
cathdoki said:
To be suspended or banned on this forum for saying that islam is not a religion of God would be the same as being insulted for Jesus’ name…
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Why? Who got banned for saying that islam is not a relilgion of God (The Blessed Trinity)?
 
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