Understanding Islamic Views

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Elwill,

Thanks for explaining to me Muhammed’s last words…and I acknowledge your intent to build bridges…that is Godly work…

Steven John is remarkable…he is a bridge. He works among the Muslims in his mosque and is giving us a very close up view of good Muslim people that have to go through alot of hardship because of the bad image of the others.
 
cathdoki said:
Elwil,

I’m amazed at how you state what you want, then tell people that they don’t know what they are talking about. It’s the other way around. I just read this post and I’m rolling on the floor laughing.
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let me say that at least i believe that you don’t know islam from islamic prespective ,
and i didn’t say to kathleen that she don’t know what she is talking about , she talking about jesus not mohammed and her posts very informative
my comments was about what i knows about mohammed (pbuh) , and yes i think that she don’t know much about him
 
KathleenGee said:
Elwill,

Thanks for explaining to me Muhammed’s last words…and I acknowledge your intent to build bridges…that is Godly work…

Steven John is remarkable…he is a bridge. He works among the Muslims in his mosque and is giving us a very close up view of good Muslim people that have to go through alot of hardship because of the bad image of the others.
Click to expand...
really , i didn’t knew that 🙂
is he muslim or what ?
 
Stephen John is Catholic. He also works in his mosque. He gives me a good picture. We have the Brotherhood here in America who is suing and imposing Islam on the people. There are Saudi schools here who show us material. Then when we are out, work against us. So I don’t trust.

I live 10 blocks from a Muslim community put in by the government. The other day I was driving in the rain. A Muslim woman was wanting to cross the street. I stopped my car so she could hurry over and get out the rain. She looked back at me and gave me the deepest and most sincere look of love and gratitude. She looked back at me 3 times. It was a look a person could die for…it is a saying…after reflecting on past posts about blaspheming the Creator of Life to kill.

Stephen John has read the documents of Vatican II to understand the true spirit of the Church for today’s times and conditions. He reflects deeply and in the Spirit the words of Christ in the Gospels and draws on that type of language our Savior used to communicate his thoughts to others.
 
elwill said:
this was the last sermon ever be said by mohammed (pbuh)

"O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and TAKE THESE WORDS TO THOSE WHO COULD NOT BE PRESENT HERE TODAY.

O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your LORD, and that HE will indeed reckon your deeds. ALLAH has forbidden you to take usury (interest), therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Allah has Judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn 'Abd’al Muttalib (Prophet’s uncle) shall henceforth be waived…

Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.

O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah’s trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste.

O People, listen to me in earnest, worship ALLAH, say your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to.

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.

Remember, one day you will appear before ALLAH and answer your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray.

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O ALLAH, that I have conveyed your message to your people".

no

i think that no muslims think that

not neccessery false Gods , sometimes it’s misunderstading or ignorance about the true God
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I"ve read this before and this is facinating insight, and it very much reminds me of the state of mind left by Mohammad at Mt Sinai at St Catherines. Another very interesting message well thought out which promotes peace and respect and deep religious belief. II’ll also do a fast search and see if I could post that message. In the search for truth I believe that to be fair.

Interesting, yet I struggle with the words of the Quran as opposed to this thinking. Polar opposite thinking I would say no?
 
Here’s another authenticated message from Mohammad with his stamp on it.

This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.
Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them.
Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.
No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses.
Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight.
The Muslims are to fight for them.
If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.
Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.
No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).

Its very difficult to understand the state of mind of many followers of Islam, then to read the actual state of mind of this man. There certainly is a contrast.
 
elwill said:
let me say that at least i believe that you don’t know islam from islamic prespective ,
and i didn’t say to kathleen that she don’t know what she is talking about , she talking about jesus not mohammed and her posts very informative
my comments was about what i knows about mohammed (pbuh) , and yes i think that she don’t know much about him
Click to expand...
Please use capital J when referring to Jesus. Jesus is just not a blasphemer like mohammad. He is God.
 
Thanks, Gary. I have never read this.

Elwill, excuse me if I missed that…you are familiar with this ??? that Gary just shared?
 
GaryTaylor said:
Here’s another authenticated message from Mohammad with his stamp on it.

This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.
Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them.
Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.
No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses.
Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight.
The Muslims are to fight for them.
If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.
Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.
No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).

Its very difficult to understand the state of mind of many followers of Islam, then to read the actual state of mind of this man. There certainly is a contrast.
Click to expand...
Can you please site the source for this post. Thanks!
 
Yet through the Quran itself and “more” of the issues hard to understand are as follows.

Signs of selfishness, tribalism and racism in Mohammed’s behaviour
Judged by the number of personal privileges that Mohammed granted himself, he was probably the most selfish leader in history. The following is only a small sample of those privileges:
• Mohammed, through the Quran, granted himself the right to marry as many women as he wished but restricted the other Muslims to marry only four women. In addition Mohammed granted himself the right to have sex with women who offer themselves to him.
• Mohammed granted himself the right to marry other Muslims’ widows but declared, through the Quran, that it is a sin for other Muslims to marry his own wives (after his death).
• Mohammed declared that his shares from any war booty were 20%, the remaining 80% to be shared by the rest of the Muslims.
• Mohammed considered himself to be the first among all human beings including the previous prophets. According to him, he was second only to Allah. As a matter of fact there was no difference between Islam and the other religions already practiced in Arabia except that in Islam Mohammed added his name next to Allah’s name.
• Mohammed’s egocentricity extended to his immediate family, called aal Mohammed, for whom Muslims are required to pray in every Islamic prayer.

The answer to this thinking remains elusive, and this is only a few thoughts. Many others scatter the pages of this thread. These questions remained answered by silence.
 
cathdoki said:
Please use capital J when referring to Jesus. Jesus is just not a blasphemer like mohammad. He is God.
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So you want him to respect your religion but you want to insult his. Could the double-standard be any clearer?
 
Cinette said:
*God decides - God is the ultimate Judge.

I am appalled at the way you think - I am appalled at the barbaric things you believe. The way Fathers kill their daughters for choosing the “wrong” man!! A Father who does that cannot love - he has no heart. To kill someone who follows his/her conscience by embracing another faith is wicked and barbaric.

I pray every day that Muslims will come to know, love and serve the one true God.

Cinette:*)
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Here’s what’s happening to Muslim children in England. Kids aren’t even allowed to be kids. This is Islam, folks!

The Talibanisation of British childhood by hard line parents

Vickie
 
I have also read that his wife’s uncle was a priest or bishop of a heretic church. Of course, I remember something about a monk named Bahira who told the teenage Muhammed of his career as a prophet. Bahira told Muhammed’s uncle to protect him from the Jews or Byzantines because according to the monk, he’s a Prophet that was mentioned in the “unadultered” Gospel and the early Church “erased” references to Muhammed. So basically, this heretic monk tells the future madman of his future…

Where in the Quran is Bahira the Monk mentioned?
 
elwill said:
this was the last sermon ever be said by mohammed (pbuh)

"O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and TAKE THESE WORDS TO THOSE WHO COULD NOT BE PRESENT HERE TODAY.

O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your LORD, and that HE will indeed reckon your deeds. ALLAH has forbidden you to take usury (interest), therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Allah has Judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn 'Abd’al Muttalib (Prophet’s uncle) shall henceforth be waived…

Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.

O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah’s trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste.

O People, listen to me in earnest, worship ALLAH, say your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to.

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.

Remember, one day you will appear before ALLAH and answer your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray.

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O ALLAH, that I have conveyed your message to your people".

no

i think that no muslims think that

not neccessery false Gods , sometimes it’s misunderstading or ignorance about the true God
Click to expand...
Bukhari Vol. 1, #427:
"May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of the prophets."

These were the words Muhammad uttered while he was dying in the arms of Aisha.

Vickie
 
We have to understand something about the Quran. When Mohammad wrote the passages of the Quran. He spoke a specific dialect of Arabic. Which was the exact same as all those of his army who followed. He wrote down passages over a 23-year period of time. As he wrote a passage, he appeared before his army and gave them this passage. The very word Quran means is exactly this.

They in turn memorized the passage to the point where they could recite it back to Mohammad with clear understanding. He was in constant War, he didn’t want to say the things over and over again. And he commanded a large army, he had to have everyone on the same page.

As Mohammad defeated armys through Mecca. He encounted different dialect. He understood this would happen. Yet he had no choice but to put foward his message as clearly as possible. Without a doubt, just from understanding these two points many things could well be mis-interpreted. And many wrong conlusions on exactly what the Quran is saying.

It also has to be understood that the moral significance of an event prevails over narrative words in the Quran. I have a difficult time with this hence I’m not of arabic desent.

What I believe did happen and is happening today, is that truth is being lost. Meaning is being twisted. Cruel leaders are using the words of a man who was a great leader, to propagate their own cause. When you view the very man himself, he has to be looked at in a couple different ways. And also what was being said, and to who, has to be considered.

Listen, if you were a great leader and General and in the process of winning unbelievable battles. You would be constantly speaking to your soldiers as Mohammad was through many of his passages. These words can’t be interpreted as Mohammad the Prophet who also had to leave these conquered lands behind and in peace. Once a land and army was defeated there was no need for War anymore. Some peace and understanding must have been held in high regards also. He certainly wouldn’t have wanted to move from one area to another and leave chaos behind? many are under the misconception Mohammad wrote the Quran after all war was complete and he had time to reconsider his words. He wrote as he traveled and conquered. And these words become law and religion as he conquered and traveled.

If you research Mohammads battle in lower Mecca, he defeated an Army at least 4-times larger than his, many claim as much as 7-times larger. Thats no easy feat. In order to do this, the same state of mind to promote violence as we see in passages of the Quran must have been taught to his soiders. He could not have defeated these armys otherwise. So I understand where much of the violence comes from.

I also understand we have two seperate states of minds with Mohammad. You have a general and then you have Mohammad the religious man. Was he really a Prophet? I don’t know. I do know power corrupts thoroughly. All you have to do is study the Pharohs of Eygpt. Many actually thought they weres Gods themself. And they could be compared to Mohammad very easily. Often one Pharoh to the next placed his view of religion on the country, and thats just the way it was till the next Pharoh came along?

Anyway, when you look at todays society, its a leap to conclude that Islam is a totaltarian society and nothing more. Its also a bit bias to look at Al Quada and conclude that is Islam. Is Al Quada let by a totaltarian leader who don’t share the same belief as other sects of Islam? Very well may be true. People follow, they followed Jim Jones to death and many others.

It very difficult to come to honest conclusions here of a thread on the internet. Someone made a great anology above about the KKK crossed with religious beliefs. Thats happened in the USA. Sometimes the better thinking and truth takes time to surface. Today the followers of the KKK now follow Hitlers thought process and are unable to hide behind Christain beliefs. Is in not possible this is happening today with Islam with corrupt leaders?

There are many things to consider. And many lives hang of the balance of those conclusions.

It very difficult to understand the treatment of women in Islam, yet its taken us in the West many years to reach the point we are at. I like to think better reason and truth prevailed. I’d like to think it will continue to prevail. The wrong thinking often is able to survive until it becomes so balantly obvious to all that its corrupt. And when you are born into anything, even if its worshiping the Rock out the back yard. You “will” grow into thinking this is valid and just. And if you mind isn’t open to change, you won’t be able to grow past the wrongs you were introduced to as a child. Thats not and easy thing to do.

Everything must be thought out long and then re-thought and debated. Can’t come to rash conclusions with people of a very different time and place. It would be no different than us placing judgement on the people of another universe and their God.

Whats unfortunate is War looms. And we are not being afforded the opportunity to allow the better thinking and reason to prevail.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Here’s another authenticated message from Mohammad with his stamp on it.

This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.
Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them.
Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.
No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses.
Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight.
The Muslims are to fight for them.
If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.
Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.
No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).

Its very difficult to understand the state of mind of many followers of Islam, then to read the actual state of mind of this man. There certainly is a contrast.
Click to expand...
*This is beautiful and it is a pity that many Muslims choose to ignore these words.

Cinette:)*
 
Booklover said:
These were the words Muhammad uttered while he was dying in the arms of Aisha.
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It’s not comforting in the least to know that you and the Wahhabi fundamentalists see eye to eye about the “true” nature of Islam (and all the other sects and persuasions can go to heck, apparently).
 
Cinette said:
*This is beautiful and it is a pity that many Muslims choose to ignore these words.

Cinette:)*
Click to expand...
I have been searching the net to find islamic sources with regarding this document and it’s nowhere to be found…

Perhaps that is why they ignore it… because they don’t know about it…

🤷
 
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