Understanding Islamic Views

[simple_soul]

Of course Mohammad sinned! Didn’t he deny Christ?

But anyway…

muhammadanism.org/Inquiries/Muhammad/Muhammad_sin.htm

Do you know that he completly understood who Jesus Christ is and then rejected Him?

 

[famdigy]

Famdigy,

First time I heard that…Muhammed’s actions greatly contradict Christ Who committed no sin…when I hear this I am thinking some ancient writer is now putting Muhammed in competition with Christ…No contest. And no disrespect intended…but as people say incessantly, there is a great contradiction between your Christ and ours…

And one of the great fruits of being Christian is that although there are many kinds of peoples and ways of expressions, they who are faithful all bear the same fruit of Christ…but then Muhammed comes and now we are hearing a different story…

Usually in real life, the former is the true story.

We don’t see it as competition. We believe that all prophets, messengers, and Imams starting with Adam (pbuh) are infallible and free from sin.

This view is only held by Twelver Shias. The majority believe about the Prophet that he was immune from Major sins but (God forbid) commits minor sins.

 

[cathdoki]

Do you know that he completly understood who Jesus Christ is and then rejected Him?

He claims to have been told so by his allah.

 

[simple_soul]

He claims to have been told so by his allah.

And is what he was told correct?

 

[cathdoki]

And is what he was told correct?

Only if you don’t believe Jesus is God.

 

[simple_soul]

Only if you don’t believe Jesus is God.

So that would be a no, correct?

 

[famdigy]

Of course Mohammad sinned! Didn’t he deny Christ?

But anyway…

muhammadanism.org/Inquiries/Muhammad/Muhammad_sin.htm

He denied the divinity of Jesus Christ, not Christ. Muslims are required to believe in Jesus and his message. The idea of Jesus’ divinity is a corruption adopted by Paul’s followers. We believe his original message was of Monotheism and worship of the One God.

Now to the link you posted with the translated Ayah as follows

“Verily We granted thee a manifest victory so that Allah may forgive thee of thy sin that which is past and that which is to come, and may perfect His favour unto thee, and may guide thee on a right path”, Sura al-Fath 48:2

These verses were revealed in reference to the Treaty of Hudaybiyya in which the Prophet made peace with unbelievers of Mecca in the year 6 A.H. The Prophet had gone with only 1400 lightly armed Muslims with the intention of doing the minor pilgrimage (‘umrah). The idol-worshippers of Mecca barred them from entering Mecca; after much discussion, they agreed to a ten years peace treaty with the Prophet.

Allah described this peace treaty as a “manifest victory”. Then He goes on to explain why He gave this “manifest victory” to the Prophet. He gives three reasons: The first reason is very interesting as well as controversial.

“so that Allah may forgive (yaghfir) thee of thy sin (dhanb) that which is past and that which is to come”

The first reason, as commonly translated, seems out of place and irrelevant to the issue of the peace treaty. There is no clear connection between granting a manifest victory and forgiving of sins. Moreover, it would seem ridiculous to help a messenger to spread the word of Islam (“to submit to God’s laws”) and then grant absolute license for committing sins to that very messenger!

The best interpretation that I have seen is of ‘Allamah Taba’tabai in his al-Mizan. He goes to the literal meaning of the words:
dhanb which is commonly used for “sin” and yaghfir
which is commonly used for “forgiving”

The word dhanb is from the verb-form dhana-ba which means “to follow”; its noun form dhanab means “tail; something that follows”. So the main idea in the word dhanb is the concept of something following the other. “Sin” is known as “dhanb” because it is an act that entails evil consequence in form of Allãh’s displeasure and punishment.

The word ghafara actually means “to cover or conceal something” which also implies the meaning of protecting something. This word is used in its original meaning in our hadith literature. For example, a hadith says “Ghaffir ash-shayb bi ’l-khidhãb” which means “Cover the white hair by dyeing” or “Conceal the old age by dyeing.” “Forgiving” is known as “ghafara” because by forgiving, Allah covers the evil consequence of sins, and protects the sinner from it.

With the literal meanings of the two crucial words in the verse: dhanb and ya ghfira, the entire passage under discussion becomes more meaningful and relevant to the Treaty of Hudaybiyya. The verses would now read as follows:

Verily We granted thee [in the Treaty of Hudaybiyya] a manifest victory; so that God may **protect **you from the past and future **consequences **[of your policy with the Meccans].

 

[elwill]

LOL!! This is The prayer that JESUS Taught US TO PRAY!!!

 

[KathleenGee]

Christ prayed for the forgiveness of sins of mankind.

Muslims who oppose Christianity are those who believe in the ideas created about it by their own teachers. St. Paul’s writings are part of the New Testament, of whose parts are 100% accepted in Christiandom in of differences.

Muslims who promote their beliefs are within their bounds but to promote a different Christianity is not within its construct. I explained earlier but Muslims, again because of the literalism found in the approach of totalitarianism, Muslims cannot understand our reasoning…and the need of witness. When Islam attempts to be experts on Christ and Christianity tries to teach us new ideas…well, I must respond…Socrates said there is nothing new under the sun.

It is just like other Christians who oppose Catholicism; they will study it from anti-Catholic sources and their take is not the faith and practices I believe in.

 

[famdigy]

Christ prayed for the forgiveness of sins of mankind.

Muslims who oppose Christianity are those who believe in the ideas created about it by their own teachers. St. Paul’s writings are part of the New Testament, of whose parts are 100% accepted in Christiandom in of differences.

“It is necessary for a Muslim to believe in the principles of faith with his own insight and understanding, and he cannot follow anyone in this respect i.e. he cannot accept the word of another who knows, simply because he has said it. However, one who has faith in the true tenets of Islam, and manifests it by his deeds, is a Muslim and Mo’min, even if he is not very profound, and the laws related to a Muslim will hold good for him.”

• Grand Ayatollah Al-Sistani

The principles of faith is comprised of 1. God’s unity, 2.God’s Justice, 3.Prophethood, 4.Leadership of mankind, and 5. Resurrection.

As Ayatollah Sistani stated above, It is incumbent upon us to understand the principles of faith using our own intellect and insights, it’s forbidden for us to believe in these principles just because someone said so. With Christianity there is no intellectual or rational proofs for the fundamental beliefs of Christians i.e. the Trinity. These are beliefs you have to take on faith. For us this lack of intellectual and rational proof is the acid test which draws us to conclude Christianity is not the faith God intended for us to follow. That is to say it is not from God.

 

[KathleenGee]

But Islam also speaks of Allah and His Spirit…and we would say that Islam does believe in 2 persons in Allah.

 

[Alcrusader]

and i believe that he said this to inspire his followers to repent to Allah often.

This does not mean that the Holy Prophet had actually committed an error willfully, but its correct meaning is that it did not even behoove the servant who was the greatest worshiper of his Lord that he should harbor even a tinge of the pride of accomplishment in his heart, but his true position also was that in spite of all his great and glorious services he should continue confessing his shortcomings before his Lord. It was under this state of the mind that the Holy Prophet often implored his Lord for forgiveness.

for a person with more responsibility and greater honor, the standards are also different. Holy Prophet (PBUH) received direct revelations from the Almighty so he was supposed to be the best and at times when he had actually done no wrong , he was still admonished because of the higher levels set for him.

wasn’t the revelation given to mohammad from the angel Gibrin or Gabriel ?
also as the Quran say, and you said The Holy Prophet (PBUH) received direct revelations from the Almighty…
Almighty ALLAH or Almighty Satan the devil…?

Never did We send a Messenger or a Prophet before you, but; when he ***did recite the revelation ***or narrated or spoke, Shaitan (Satan) threw (some falsehood) in it. But Allah abolishes [re-copy] that which Shaitan (Satan) throws in. Then Allah establishes His Revelations. And Allah is All-Knower, All-Wise: { surah al-hajj 52}

What Kind of Prophet is that who RECEIVE REVELATION from SATAN! if he is not one of his followers??

**The devil for Muslims: **
The strange is that Islam describes the demons or jinn as creatures of the good, and bad and can repent, and it has been created from fire.
it’s like the Scottish legends about the ice-man who is created from the ice.
Myths differs according to each people, but because the Arabs live in the desert, you find many legends related to heat and fire … But The most Important is that Islam has made the jinn and demons creatures that helps human beings, are good to him and could be friendly to him! Even mohammad has a holl surah (or chapter) in the Quran only about jinn. surah al jinn . ( a holl chapter on demons… interesting)

So What has Mohammed to do with Jinn, he’s like other prophets of Baal who slaughtered the children of Israel and many people who worship God… The Scripture describes false prophets, as being humans that love women and love of concupiscence and invasions, and wars, and all those are available in Muhammad .

Mohamed says things funny, like the devil has a offspring resulted from Satan through the practice of sex with the devil himself (he has a masculine organ and a feminin organ ), in other words Satan make sex with HIMSELF !!!
Please don’t be shocked, after all, all the thinking of Muhammad is sexual, and based on sexual subjects.
He even made the Devil genitalia double!!** (What a freak!!)**

Islam says that the devils repent and there is a relationship between Muhammad and Jinns unlike any of the real prophets of God who always casted them out.
Mohammed had a corresponding Jinn for him self !! according to Islamic stories and was known as “al-abiad” (which means “The White”)!! (What The Hell!!)
this nonsense are made by Satan to draw closer to the deception of people and deceived them !!
**Even When Mohammad used to receive his revelation thing, he used to begin acting like someone who has the same symptoms of epilepsy!!! like someone who’s possessed by the devil unlike the prophet of God…
**
But the most Important thing is that the devil or jinn is enemy of man and should not deal with him any way. -Always from the point of view Islamic.-

 

[Alcrusader]

But Islam also speaks of Allah and His Spirit…and we would say that Islam does believe in 2 persons in Allah.

Sorry my friend you understood this concept wrong.
Islamicly speaking, The Quran Say about Christians that they are Kuffar and “Dallin” (misunderstood the message of ALLAH) because they worship 3 gods.

the 3 gods from the islamic point of view are:

• ALLAH
• ISSA /JESUS
• MARIAM (or marry the mother of Jesus)

and more precisly the islam never understood the concept of " Son Of God "
I’m Gonna talk about it later…

Which is completely Wrong! 100% wrong!
you ask why Islam Thought like that? it’s because who wrote the Quran was influenced by the hypocrites and people that were half pagan half Christians having all the Christian ideology mixed up, and many of them where kicked out of the church because of their acts and believes and thinking… and one of them is “Al Raheb Bahira”,who was a monk and was kicked out from the church for immoral acts (breaking his commitment with God with a woman)… So he was kicked from the church to the desert, which is now these days Saudi Arabia, and was the co-founder of what’s called now Islam. (His Role is SO BIG in the life of Mohammad)

This monk was part of Nestorianism that don’t belive in Holy Trinity, nor in giving attention to the Virgin Marry and calling here “mother of God”.

So at macca at that time their were pagans mixed up with Jewish, mixed up with nasara (Jewish who believed in Jesus but stayed Jewish) , mixed up with “some kind of Christians” and they all used to pray in “al Kaaba” .
Many of those people considered ‘the virgin Marry’ as a God, and ’ Jesus’ as a God.
which was completely wrong!
And you can see that written in the Quran…

Could ALLAH / God ever “Change His Words” that he have said before the arrival of Islam??
could ALLAH /God “misunderstood” Christianity???

many question are to be asked… and we still wait an answer.

 

[Alcrusader]

Alcrusader;6934205:

so that was only in fugitive sense or a lesson for the disciples and later followers.

my answer to jakazaki

If Jesus Christ, the ‘God Incarnate’ and a ‘God’ himself can pray for the forgiveness of his sins and take the Bapstism of repentance then there is no problem in Prophet Muhammad who was human only, indeed the best and perfect of them but a human still, doing the same. A human, however great needs to show his modesty but not so a divine person as you think of Jesus.

And also the fact that it makes more sense of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), who came with a doctrine of salvation based on good deeds and repentance, asking the Almighty God for forgiveness teaching his followers the same then Jesus (PBUH) who as per Christian belief brought the gift of salvation merely through his own vicarious sacrifice.

My friend you are comparing Jesus To Mohammad??
It’s even in the Quran written that Jesus is without sins, and he is the only person ever existed and ever will exist like this.
But Mohammad as the quran say “He was Touched by demons when he was a kid” like anyone from the islamic point of view.

So any comparison between them even in the quran will give a ‘Full score’ for Jesus.

Jesus NEVER asked FOR FORGIVENESS !! Instead He’s the One WHO Forgive us and Save us from our sins!
NONE Was ever given this privileged other than the Lord Jesus.

Where as Mohammad was an ordinary man That “His Book” say about him he is without faults and sins, STILL He ask God For forgiveness and mercy and pardon!!

Weird isn’t it?

 

[Alcrusader]

He denied the divinity of Jesus Christ, not Christ. Muslims are required to believe in Jesus and his message. The idea of Jesus’ divinity is a corruption adopted by Paul’s followers. We believe his original message was of Monotheism and worship of the One God.

Please Say “Muslims are required to believe in Issa and his message” and not “Muslims are required to believe in Jesus and his message”
like this I can understand your thinking, since ‘Issa’ and ‘Jesus’ are totally Different Persons In History, Teachings, and the Time each one came.

I’m not gonna tell you that what you believe is called ‘Issa’ is a corrupted copy of “Jesus”, but i’m gonna ask you “What is the Message of Issa?” and “What is the Message of Jesus?”
could sound weird to you, but hope you could answer it if understood my question.

Now concerning St.Paul’s writing and all those kind of things, can I ask you something.
Can you Define to me What Is Christianity to you?
Dose Christians worship 1 god or 3 gods?
How do you understand worshiping 1 god?

after answering those question I just wanna tell you that all St.Paul did is that he connected things together. Since he was highly educated, know very well the Torah and Talmud and the Jewish ideology he just connected what was said about the Messiah in the Old testament with what he experienced and was reviled by the Holy Spirit.
So basically Everything was their, but needed someone to some and regroup the pieces.

Now to the link you posted with the translated Ayah as follows

 

[elwill]

My friend you are comparing Jesus To Mohammad??
It’s even in the Quran written that Jesus is without sins, and he is the only person ever existed and ever will exist like this.

show me this verse

 

[wwolverine]

Do you know that he completly understood who Jesus Christ is and then rejected Him?

Dear simple

We already know that when Jesus was tempted by satan, he used these words " If you are son of God" that means satan knew who he was tempting, and he failed drastically. Satan knew he was on a loosing end, Satan could not tempt Jesus, and Jesus knew what He was supposed to do for the reconcilation of man. Jesus died and hence the reconcilation took place. But do you think satan will just keep quite and see that the world is changing and they are accepting Jesus as their Lord and God? Oh no, Satan would not take this lightly, and hence comes mohammed and then we know how he made the greatest sacrifice of Jesus, a nothing like it never took place and made almost a billion souls depart from Jesus’s hand.

we need to pray for these souls that they realize what they are up to and bring them back by our prayers.

God bless all muslims to realize their folly.

 

[Sam_777]

Yes, Muhammad (pbuh&hf) is infallible. He does not sin or commit mistakes both minor and major both consciously or unconsciously.

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon13.gif for you famdigy,

How do you say such thing when it’s clear from the Quran (not to mention the hadiths) that Muhammed is a sinner and did many mistakes!!!

(Quran 80):
He frowned and turned (his) back, Because there came to him the blind man…

عَبَسَ وَتَوَلَّى أَنْ جَاءهُ الأعْمَى وَمَا يُدْرِيكَ لَعَلَّهُ يَزَّكَّى أَوْ يَذَّكَّرُ فَتَنْفَعَهُ الذِّكْرَى أَمَّا مَنِ اسْتَغْنَى فَأَنْتَ لَهُ تَصَدَّى وَمَا عَلَيْكَ أَلاَ يَزَّكَّى وَأَمَّا مَنْ جَاءكَ يَسْعَى وَهُوَ يَخْشَى فَأَنْتَ عَنْهُ تَلَهَّى
​

(Quran 74):
*O you who are clothed! Arise and warn, And your Lord do magnify, And your garments do purify, And uncleanness do shun…
*

يا ايها المّثر قم فأنذر وربك فكبر وثيابك فطهر والرُّجز فاهجر
​

(Quran 93):
*And find you lost (that is, unrecognized by men) and guide (them to you)? *

ألم يجدك يتيماً فآوى . ووجدك ضالاً فهدى . ووجدك عائلاً فأغنى

(Quran 66):
*O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) that which Allah has made lawful for you; you seek to please your wives; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
*
يا أيها النبى لم تحرم ما أحل الله لك تبتغى مرضاة أزواجك والله غفور رحيم

(Quran 8:67-68):
It is not fit for a prophet that he should take captives unless he has fought and triumphed in the land; you desire the frail goods of this world, while Allah desires (for you) the hereafter; and Allah is Mighty, Wise. Were it not for an ordinance from Allah that had already gone forth, surely there would have befallen you a great chastisement for what you had taken to.
مَا كَانَ لِنَبِيٍّ أَنْ يَكُونَ لَهُ أَسْرَى حَتَّى يُثْخِنَ فِي الْأَرْضِ لَوْلَا كِتَابٌ مِنَ اللَّهِ سَبَقَ لَمَسَّكُمْ فِيمَا أَخَذْتُمْ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ

​

 

[Pitcharan]

And Mohammad can attribute anything he wants to the angel gabriel. There was nobody else there as a witness. Mohammad could have said the angel gabriel told everybody make swizzle sticks and hoola hoops and muslims would take him at his word. Entire koran is corrupted and without any chronology. It is lacking in love for others. It is lacking in humility, and it is lacking in foundation. It is totally contrary to what Jesus taught. And since Jesus is God, Mohammad’s message had to come from someone other than God

Strangely, despite the facts that (i) Ishmael was the first to be circumcised by Abraham and (ii) Moses’ father-in-law Jethro, an Ishmaelite should have received the Law thro’ Moses around the same time as the Israelites or even ealier, yet they have no record of their original scriptures and it had to be revealed all over again by angel Gabriel.

 

[seraphime2008]

If Jesus Christ, the ‘God Incarnate’ and a ‘God’ himself can pray for the forgiveness of his sins and take the Bapstism of repentance then there is no problem in Prophet Muhammad who was human only, indeed the best and perfect of them but a human still, doing the same. A human, however great needs to show his modesty but not so a divine person as you think of Jesus.