Understanding Islamic Views

[simple_soul]

Dear simple

We already know that when Jesus was tempted by satan, he used these words " If you are son of God" that means satan knew who he was tempting, and he failed drastically. Satan knew he was on a loosing end, Satan could not tempt Jesus, and Jesus knew what He was supposed to do for the reconcilation of man. Jesus died and hence the reconcilation took place. But do you think satan will just keep quite and see that the world is changing and they are accepting Jesus as their Lord and God? Oh no, Satan would not take this lightly, and hence comes mohammed and then we know how he made the greatest sacrifice of Jesus, a nothing like it never took place and made almost a billion souls depart from Jesus’s hand.

*Dear wwolverine,

I am not sure what your point is with this statement. How does this show that he knew and understood that Jesus Christ is the Word of God Incarnate, God’s Divine Son and then rejected Him? *

 

[KathleenGee]

Famdigy,

I have read Muslim text that Muhammed had sinned…

You do not or were not able to respond to Fr Rohr’s contemplation of God coming to us in the form of man.

God coming to us as Christ became Man and placed Himself among us. Christ restored mankind to God. Christ restored mankind to each other.

I see Islam’s expansion as one of conquest and contempt. We are seeing it now. The Cathedral of Cordoba was destroyed and replaced by a mosque. Now the Muslims want a building near 9/11…wanting a 13 story building for a 13 person community of Islamic believers…and calling this new mosque Cordoba.

To force people to convert, to impose slavery on them and tax them if they do not convert…this is totalitarianism and is not true religion.

People are finding out across the country and are enraged…why not build a Crusader memorial and put it by a site…now where would such a place be in Islam??? as a token of good will towards Christianity and forgiveness for Islam’s past wrongs???

I have yet to see Islam apologize for its 230 million deaths of human beings in the past 1,400 years. Islam does not restore people to God and to each other in this context.

 

[Alcrusader]

Famdigy,

I have read Muslim text that Muhammed had sinned…

 

[Alcrusader]

show me this verse

are you a Muslim?

 

[cathdoki]

He denied the divinity of Jesus Christ, not Christ. Muslims are required to believe in Jesus and his message. The idea of Jesus’ divinity is a corruption adopted by Paul’s followers. We believe his original message was of Monotheism and worship of the One God.

Now to the link you posted with the translated Ayah as follows

“Verily We granted thee a manifest victory so that Allah may forgive thee of thy sin that which is past and that which is to come, and may perfect His favour unto thee, and may guide thee on a right path”, Sura al-Fath 48:2

These verses were revealed in reference to the Treaty of Hudaybiyya in which the Prophet made peace with unbelievers of Mecca in the year 6 A.H. The Prophet had gone with only 1400 lightly armed Muslims with the intention of doing the minor pilgrimage (‘umrah). The idol-worshippers of Mecca barred them from entering Mecca; after much discussion, they agreed to a ten years peace treaty with the Prophet.

Allah described this peace treaty as a “manifest victory”. Then He goes on to explain why He gave this “manifest victory” to the Prophet. He gives three reasons: The first reason is very interesting as well as controversial.

“so that Allah may forgive (yaghfir) thee of thy sin (dhanb) that which is past and that which is to come”

The first reason, as commonly translated, seems out of place and irrelevant to the issue of the peace treaty. There is no clear connection between granting a manifest victory and forgiving of sins. Moreover, it would seem ridiculous to help a messenger to spread the word of Islam (“to submit to God’s laws”) and then grant absolute license for committing sins to that very messenger!

The best interpretation that I have seen is of ‘Allamah Taba’tabai in his al-Mizan. He goes to the literal meaning of the words:
dhanb which is commonly used for “sin” and yaghfir
which is commonly used for “forgiving”

The word dhanb is from the verb-form dhana-ba which means “to follow”; its noun form dhanab means “tail; something that follows”. So the main idea in the word dhanb is the concept of something following the other. “Sin” is known as “dhanb” because it is an act that entails evil consequence in form of Allãh’s displeasure and punishment.

The word ghafara actually means “to cover or conceal something” which also implies the meaning of protecting something. This word is used in its original meaning in our hadith literature. For example, a hadith says “Ghaffir ash-shayb bi ’l-khidhãb” which means “Cover the white hair by dyeing” or “Conceal the old age by dyeing.” “Forgiving” is known as “ghafara” because by forgiving, Allah covers the evil consequence of sins, and protects the sinner from it.

With the literal meanings of the two crucial words in the verse: dhanb and ya ghfira, the entire passage under discussion becomes more meaningful and relevant to the Treaty of Hudaybiyya. The verses would now read as follows:

Verily We granted thee [in the Treaty of Hudaybiyya] a manifest victory; so that God may **protect **you from the past and future **consequences **[of your policy with the Meccans].

He denied the divinity of Christ as you said. Therefore he sinned gravely.

 

[cathdoki]

Strangely, despite the facts that (i) Ishmael was the first to be circumcised by Abraham and (ii) Moses’ father-in-law Jethro, an Ishmaelite should have received the Law thro’ Moses around the same time as the Israelites or even ealier, yet they have no record of their original scriptures and it had to be revealed all over again by angel Gabriel.

Whoever that gabriel was/is.

 

[cathdoki]

And also the fact that it makes more sense of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), who came with a doctrine of salvation based on good deeds and repentance, asking the Almighty God for forgiveness teaching his followers the same then Jesus (PBUH) who as per Christian belief brought the gift of salvation merely through his own vicarious sacrifice.

mohammad taught nothing like Jesus. Jesus thought love and peace. mohammad taught war and hate. Calling people that disagreed with him pigs and dogs. Telling his people that the rocks themselves will tell mohammadans where the Jews are so that they could be killed. Taught to tax and belittle those that did not believe as he did. Told his followers persecute and kill those that disagreed with him. Made slaves of prisoners. IT’S ALL CONTRARY TO WHAT JESUS THOUGHT. JESUS IS GOD. MOHAMMAD IS THE ANTI-JESUS.

 

[simple_soul]

He denied the divinity of Christ as you said. Therefore he sinned gravely.

*I do not believe that just because he denied the Divinity of Jesus Christ means he had full knowledge and understanding of Whom he denied. *

 

[simple_soul]

mohammad taught nothing like Jesus. Jesus thought love and peace. mohammad taught war and hate. Calling people that disagreed with him pigs and dogs. Telling his people that the rocks themselves will tell mohammadans where the Jews are so that they could be killed. Taught to tax and belittle those that did not believe as he did. Told his followers persecute and kill those that disagreed with him. Made slaves of prisoners. IT’S ALL CONTRARY TO WHAT JESUS THOUGHT. JESUS IS GOD. MOHAMMAD IS THE ANTI-JESUS.

This could be said about every one of us. Every time we act in an un-Christlike manner we are acting in an anti-Jesus manner.

 

[cathdoki]

*I do not believe that just because he denied the Divinity of Jesus Christ means he had full knowledge and understanding of Whom he denied. *

He specifically commanded his followers not to treat him as the Christians treated Christ, in that the Christians were wrong. He was also very aware of Jewish and Christian scripture.

 

[simple_soul]

It was always like that, Islam attacks and Christianity forgive…
we try to be always tolerant and forgiving and be kind with others, give them all their rights, let them do whatever they want, but feel betrayed when the others treat us in the opposite way, and try to search for a way stab us in the back in anyway,
But hey one day we would not shut-up anymore and could do to others like others do to us.

 

[cathdoki]

This could be said about every one of us. Every time we act in an un-Christlike manner we are acting in an anti-Jesus manner.

But we are not considered the prophet of a religion of billions who’ve denied the divinity of Christ through the centuries. We are not the people that Jesus warned would be better to have never been born.

 

[simple_soul]

He specifically commanded his followers not to treat him as the Christians treated Christ, in that the Christians were wrong. He was also very aware of Jewish and Christian scripture.

*Yes, but I do not believe that being aware of something is the same as understanding and knowing something. *

 

[cathdoki]

Alcrusader;6938070:

But then this would make us them.

No it wouldn’t. We are not decapitating people for leaving Christianity. We are not crashing planes into buildings. We are not on a jihad against the east. We allow them to build mosques on our land when we can’t build churches on theirs. There is no comparison. Didn’t Jesus also say

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words: going forth out of that house or city shake off the dust from your feet.

I think he meant to leave them to their own disbelief.

 

[simple_soul]

But we are not considered the prophet of a religion of billions who’ve denied the divinity of Christ through the centuries. We are not the people that Jesus warned would be better to have never been born.

OK, who are the people that Jesus warned would be better of to have never been born?

 

[simple_soul]

simple soul;6938480:

No it wouldn’t. We are not decapitating people for leaving Christianity. We are not crashing planes into buildings. We are not on a jihad against the east. We allow them to build mosques on our land when we can’t build churches on theirs. There is no comparison. Didn’t Jesus also say

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words: going forth out of that house or city shake off the dust from your feet.

I think he meant to leave them to their own disbelief.

The poster was advocating treating them as they treat us. That would mean we start acting the way they do and that would mean we become like them.

 

[cathdoki]

OK, who are the people that Jesus warned would be better of to have never been born?

You really don’t know. To those that come after him and mislead His sheep. Christianity was thriving in Arabia before mohammad.

 

[KathleenGee]

Famdigy was promoting Sharia to us.

Today I just received an email from an Egyptian woman who explained what Sharia is…and how even a one year old baby girl can be ‘married’ and sexually used…or a grown woman becomes married under Sharia and becomes the slave of the man…and Muslim men like this, want to take total control of the woman…and the rest of the world.

She told us not to be deceived by the appearance of peace and dialogue. She said already there is one or two cities in America, one is Dearborn, Michigan and it is completely controlled by Muslims. The president of our country is now promoting Islam and abortion in Kenya for the support the dictator of that country gave him…who has violated human rights.

To name the 13-story mosque Cordoba, to see all the contrived lawsuits in this country, the imposition and zero reciprocity, Muslim people are controlled by the same men who have violent connections to the extreme Islam world…

The Koran texts are confusing and contradicting…one who is a native Arab sees a different context than a second language learner. The dialogues here always have the inability to comprehend our reasoning and use of witness of why Muhammed’s understanding of Christ is not correct.

So for most, you never know who is telling the truth and who is painting an image of peace and benevolence.

This is a same spirit that has endured for over 1,400 and now our country is on their radar screen…a new plum to be picked and consumed. How much we need to draw close together as Christians and our fellow people…and our own need to restore our society.

I really think one of the great things we can do to ease our relations is to restore the dignity of woman in our own culture. I pray to Blessed Mother for our women because this negative image is what they see and it inflames them…

But I find the Islamic perspective incomprehensible in modern world, the big problem for me is the lack of common humanity.

Christ came to restore common humanity.

 

[simple_soul]

You really don’t know. To those that come after him and mislead His sheep. Christianity was thriving in Arabia before mohammad.

*I remember hearing it when I was younger but I do not remember the specifics of it or the context in which Jesus said it. I was hopping you would have a book and chapter/verse.
Anyway, I still do not see how this proves that when he denied the Divinity of Jesus Christ, he had full knowledge and understanding of Whom he denied. *

 

[simple_soul]

Famdigy was promoting Sharia to us.

Today I just received an email from an Egyptian woman who explained what Sharia is…and how even a one year old baby girl can be ‘married’ and sexually used…or a grown woman becomes married under Sharia and becomes the slave of the man…and Muslim men like this, want to take total control of the woman…and the rest of the world.

She told us not to be deceived by the appearance of peace and dialogue. She said already there is one or two cities in America, one is Dearborn, Michigan and it is completely controlled by Muslims. The president of our country is now promoting Islam and abortion in Kenya for the support the dictator of that country gave him…who has violated human rights.

To name the 13-story mosque Cordoba, to see all the contrived lawsuits in this country, the imposition and zero reciprocity, Muslim people are controlled by the same men who have violent connections to the extreme Islam world…

The Koran texts are confusing and contradicting…one who is a native Arab sees a different context than a second language learner. The dialogues here always have the inability to comprehend our reasoning and use of witness of why Muhammed’s understanding of Christ is not correct.

So for most, you never know who is telling the truth and who is painting an image of peace and benevolence.

This is a same spirit that has endured for over 1,400 and now our country is on their radar screen…a new plum to be picked and consumed. ** How much we need to draw close together as Christians and our fellow people…and our own need to restore our society.

I really think one of the great things we can do to ease our relations is to restore the dignity of woman in our own culture. I pray to Blessed Mother for our women because this negative image is what they see and it inflames them…

But I find the Islamic perspective incomprehensible in modern world, the big problem for me is the lack of common humanity.

Christ came to restore common humanity**.

*Dear Kathleen,

I can not tell you how much sense these few lines make to me. I share the same thoughts with you. *