Understanding Islamic Views

[Steven_John]

When Moses Asked God what name the people should call Him, He told Moses “I AM”.

I think you may be not really accurate offering an interpretation of what was written of what was spoken best i know Moses (pbuh) was told hayah. Why do you suggest it only means “i am”.

When Pontius Pilate asked Jesus who He was he said “I AM”. Jesus is God.

Matthew 27:11 (Young’s Literal Translation)

11And Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor did question him, saying, Art thou the **king of the Jews**!' And Jesus said to him, Thou sayest.’

Matthew 27:11 (King James Version)

11And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.

Matthew 27:11 (The Jerusalem Bible)

Jesus then, was brought before the governor, and **the governor put to him **this question, “Are you the king of the Jews?” Jesus replied, “It is you who say it”.

There are way closer NT quotations to try and assert Jesus (pbwh) claimed to be the voice at the bush.

This will sound hard but please i mean it in very kindness, did the spirit lead you to relate these narrations to have the same meaning or did a well maybe meaning person teach you it? Given the spirit guides straight and true.

Firstly before Pilate Jesus (pbwh) only confirms Pilate has said what he said secondly did the Jewish people to believe the Messiah to be the chosen one of G-d or G-d Himself?

I respect what you are trying to say but dont think you said it.

For hearts of understanding you have done a very good thing that offers the humble at heart an opportunity for growth in well founded truth.

May G-d bless you and yours for working to help the kingdom be seen.

“I will be who I will be”. you have free will so choose who you see

 

[seraphime2008]

Yes Sister, i think we are on the same page for the here and now and your speaking is for patience that is needed until humans are under the true King.

I maybe misunderstanding the law or reciprocal action. As stab do you mean for example where we allow people freedom of religion so other countries owe us the same?

I often here people of this country complain “why should we let them do that here they would not allow us to do our things in their country”.

My laws are to do the same to and for others regardless to their actions as i value mercy above justice. The aspiration of my heart, sadly not always in action of the flesh is to hold regardless of what any does to me i will keep doing as i should.

Bless ya Sister pray well and stay well.

I was only referring to what you try to say to defend the need of the sharia law implemented in the light of what u said as “God’s law”. I still believe that freedom is what we are bestowed by God and the light of the rule should be applied not as something forced on someone’s throat.

My reciprocal understanding is sure still referring to Jesus, the Light of the world who said “do unto others what you want others do unto you”, but still I find it rather appalled if after all the necessary charities, they don’t reciprocate, well in the case of believing that God alone will grant us the reward, and not in here as worldly awards, I still believe that there’s something that we should do to let them learn the same thing, get the message clear and be responsible and concern for the matter of all humanity.

 

[elwill]

**

and here is the Hadis

Abu Huraira reported Allaah’s Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) as saying: The mother of every person gives him birth according to his true nature. It is subsequently his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Magian. Had his parents been Muslim he would have also remained a Muslim. Every person to whom his mother gives birth (has two aspects of his life) ; when his mother gives birth** Satan strikes him**** but it was not the case with Mary and her son (Jesus Christ).
{ Sahih Muslim no.6429 }

كلّ مولودٍ لامرأة يلكزه الشيطان إلا المسيح. صحيح مسلم المجلد 4 الكتاب 31 العدد 6429 صفحة 1399.​

and

حدثنا ‏ ‏أبو بكر بن أبي شيبة ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏عبد الأعلى ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏معمر ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏الزهري ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏سعيد ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏أبي هريرة ‏
أن رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏قال ‏ ‏ما من مولود يولد إلا نخسه الشيطان فيستهل صارخا من نخسة الشيطان إلا ‏ ‏ابن مريم ‏ ‏وأمه ‏
ثم قال ‏ ‏أبو هريرة ‏ ‏اقرءوا إن شئتم ‏
http://hadith.al-islam.com/images/{.gif وإني أعيذها بك وذريتها من ‏الشيطان الرجيم http://hadith.al-islam.com/images/}.gif

و حدثنيه ‏ ‏محمد بن رافع ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏عبد الرزاق ‏ ‏أخبرنا ‏ ‏معمر ‏ ‏ح ‏ ‏و حدثني ‏ ‏عبد الله بن عبد الرحمن الدارمي ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏أبو اليمان ‏ ‏أخبرنا ‏ ‏شعيب ‏ ‏جميعا ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏الزهري ‏ ‏بهذا الإسناد وقالا ‏ ‏يمسه حين يولد فيستهل صارخا من مسة الشيطان إياه ‏ ‏وفي حديث ‏ ‏شعيب ‏ ‏من مس الشيطان ‏

صحيح مسلم بشرح النووي

‏‏قَوْله صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : ( مَا مِنْ مَوْلُود يُولَدُ إِلَّا نَخَسَهُ الشَّيْطَان فَيَسْتَهِلُّ صَارِخًا مِنْ نَخْسَةِ الشَّيْطَان إِلَّا اِبْن مَرْيَم وَأُمّه ) ‏
‏هَذِهِ فَضِيلَة ظَاهِرَة , وَظَاهِر الْحَدِيث اِخْتِصَاصهَا بِعِيسَى وَأُمّه , وَاخْتَارَ الْقَاضِي عِيَاض أَنَّ جَمِيع الْأَنْبِيَاء يُشَارِكُونَ فِيهَا . ‏
hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Doc=1&ID=101192&SearchText=%E3%C7%20%E3%E4%20%E3%E6%E1%E6%CF%20%ED%E6%E1%CF%20%C5%E1%C7%20%E4%CE%D3%E5%20%C7%E1%D4%ED%D8%C7%E4&SearchType=root&Scope=all&Offset=0&SearchLevel=QBE
​

BUKHARI’S HADITH 4.506: Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, “When any human being is born. Satan touches him at both sides of the body with his two fingers, except Jesus, the son of Mary, whom Satan tried to touch but failed, for he touched the placenta-cover instead.”

YOU SEE Elwill THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHO TAKE REVELATION FROM SATAN AND BETWEEN WHO SATAN CAN’T TOUCH???

thank you for presenting status of Jesus (pbuh) within islamic teaching


i know this hadeeth , but let me tell you somthing
we don’t believe that humans are sinners because satan touched them in their birth

the sinner is a sinner when he himself commit a sin

but now i understood what you meant when you said that jesus be said to be sinless in islam , i wanted to know what you means , and it’s clear for me now

thanx

 

[Steven_John]

Dear Sister,
I ask and pray for you to be blessed as i know you see so many terrible things in the name of Islam. I know where i live i see small things that are against G-d but in His name and it pains me, even the thorns in myself are pain.
Sister i am humbled buy the suffering i here of where you live, I pray you all stay gentle and strong in the beattitudes and i praise and thank G-d for your sufferings in His name.

I was only referring to what you try to say to defend the need of the sharia law implemented in the light of what u said as “God’s law”. I still believe that freedom is what we are bestowed by God and the light of the rule should be applied

Then if sharia is by definition is G-ds law, you have just spoken for what you believe sharia sharia law.

not as something forced on someone’s throat.

i was discussing the definition not the application, but i would not see that as sharia but for justice. From a western upbringing i have heard of countries that have capital punishment, i personally am against capital and corporal punishment. My understanding from the 66 or 72 books of the bibles i believe men are entitled to justice but should know mercy is better and also understand if you don’t give it you won’t get it.

My reciprocal understanding is sure still referring to Jesus, the Light of the world who said “do unto others what you want others do unto you”,
but still I find it rather appalled if after all the necessary charities, they don’t reciprocate

I see that as
i am to do to other people what I want them to do for me,
Not if i do to others they are obligated to do to me
i aspire to do unto them to the glory of my G-d not for what i can get from them.

I pray this witness of the truth will help them be as big as possible, bigger than me if G-d wills.

, well in the case of believing that God alone will grant us the reward, and not in here as worldly awards, I still believe that there’s something that we should do to let them learn the same thing, get the message clear and be responsible and concern for the matter of all humanity.

Amen Sister the something is as it is written above. Yeshua (pbwh) told us to be like it until the end.

Bless you dear Sister pray well and stay well.

 

[Alcrusader]

thank you for presenting status of Jesus (pbuh) within islamic teaching


i know this hadeeth , but let me tell you somthing
**we don’t believe that humans are sinners because satan touched them in their birth **

the sinner is a sinner when he himself commit a sin

but now i understood what you meant when you said that jesus be said to be sinless in islam , i wanted to know what you means , and it’s clear for me now

thanx

Your welcome my friend at anytime.
did you red the post #702

Now let’s try to understand somethings with logic. can we?

All humans are touched by the devil [from the Islamic point of view] even Mohammad and all other prophets.
Only Jesus wasn’t touch by the devil, this make him what?
A normal Human or something more???

Fill the missing “???” by the correct statement:

Humans -----> Touched by the devil
??? -----> Not Touched by the devil.

 

[Alcrusader]

Dear Sister,

I ask and pray for you to be blessed as i know you see so many terrible things in the name of Islam. I know where i live i see small things that are against G-d but in His name and it pains me, even the thorns in myself are pain.
Sister i am humbled buy the suffering i here of where you live, I pray you all stay gentle and strong in the beattitudes and i praise and thank G-d for your sufferings in His name.

 

[dosdog]

My dear friend, I greets you with the holy peace of the Lord Jesus,

 

[wwolverine]

thank you for presenting status of Jesus (pbuh) within islamic teaching


i know this hadeeth , but let me tell you somthing
we don’t believe that humans are sinners because satan touched them in their birth

the sinner is a sinner when he himself commit a sin

but now i understood what you meant when you said that jesus be said to be sinless in islam , i wanted to know what you means , and it’s clear for me now

thanx

Hello Elwill,

Something is not right in the above that you wrote. but well given to accept your belief ( unlike many a muslims who bellieve just the opposite of what you wrote) Would you be kind enough to show us according to Islam what sins were committed by Jesus, and what where committed by mohammed? I am sure you will educate us on this as you believe that a sinner is a sinner when he himself commit a sin your words.

 

[elwill]

Your welcome my friend at anytime.
did you red the post #702

Now let’s try to understand somethings with logic. can we?

All humans are touched by the devil [from the Islamic point of view] even Mohammad and all other prophets.
Only Jesus wasn’t touch by the devil, this make him what?
A normal Human or something more???

i agree with you , he isn’t normal human but still not God

2-253 Those apostles We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan.

Fill the missing "???"

i can’t imagine God touched by the devil
but exuse me , i can’t imagine God eats and drinks and pee , i can’t imagine God crying and praying to himself , i can’t imagine God be punished by his own creation
i can’t imagine God in the womb of one of his creation and be birthed like us , glory be to him

 

[elwill]

Hello Elwill,

Something is not right in the above that you wrote. but well given to accept your belief ( unlike many a muslims who bellieve just the opposite of what you wrote) Would you be kind enough to show us according to Islam what sins were committed by Jesus, and what where committed by mohammed? I am sure you will educate us on this as you believe that a sinner is a sinner when he himself commit a sin your words.

quran , didn’t mentioned any sins concerning jesus (pbuh) , and never said he is sinless either

i believe that all Prophets including, Jesus and Muhammad, peace be upon them both, were sinless and at times some mistakes made by them were not sins as such.

An example of the sin when it comes to the Prophet:

Holy Prophet (pbuh) was once even admonished by the Almighty and that one event clearly shows what the matter was. It is stated in Qur’an 80:1.

“He frowned and turned away his face because there came up to him the blind man. And what would make you know that he might reform, or heed the admonition, and admonishing might profit him? As for him who is indifferent, to him you attend, though you would not be responsible if he did not reform. And the one ‘who comes to you running, of his own will, and fears, from him you turn away.” (Qur’an 80:1-10)

It so happened that Holy Prophet (pbuh) was talking to some leaders of Makkah who had not embraced Islam and right them one of his companions Ibn Umm Maktum came in and Holy Prophet (pbuh) disliked his entry at that time. In fact Holy Prophet (pbuh) thought that even if a single man from among the people whom he was trying to bring to the right path, listened to him and was rightly guided, be could become a powerful means of strengthening Islam. Therefore, none of his companions should interrupt at that time; whatever he wanted to ask or learn, he could ask or learn at some later time.

By this style the Holy Prophet (pbuh), by a subtle method, has been made to realize that it was an act unseemly for him. Had somebody familiar with his high morals witnessed it, he would have thought that it was not he but some other person who had behaved in that manner.

So, this was a deed which the Holy Prophet (pbuh) did, and was disliked by the Almighty Allah. We can see Holy Prophet’s (pbuh) intention was not to commit sin and hurt anyone but Allah who knew that those to the Prophet was talking were not sincere but the blind man who came was sincere. And so he was admonished.

This is a clear manifestation that for Holy Prophet (pbuh) the standards were much higher. And so what’s called a ’sin’ is only this much when it comes to The Most Perfect of All Humans.

One also needs to understand that for a person with more responsibility and greater honor, the standards are also different. Holy Prophet (pbuh) received direct revelations from the Almighty so he was supposed to be the best and at times when he had actually done no wrong as we can see, he was still admonished because of the higher levels set for him.

The Prophets and Messengers may strive to find the right judgement in the situations with which they are faced, and they judge according to what they themselves see and hear – they do not have knowledge of the Unseen. They may make an incorrect judgement

Umm Salamah, the wife of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) narrated that he heard a dispute going on at the door of his apartment, so he went out and told them: ‘I am no more than a human being. Disputing parties may come to me, and one of you may be more eloquent and persuasive than the other, so I may think that he is telling the truth and rule in favour of him. Whoever has a judgement in favour of him to the detriment of a fellow-Muslim’s rights, this is a piece of the Fire – let him take it or leave it.’”

When Nooh prayed for his kaafir son, Allaah rebuked him for doing so, and taught him that this person was not a member of his family, and that this prayer was not a righteous deed on his part. So Nooh sought forgiveness from his Lord, repented and returned to Allaah: “Nooh said: ‘O my Lord! I seek refuge with You from asking You that of which I have no knowledge. And unless You forgive me and have Mercy on me, I would indeed be one of the losers.’” [Hood 11:47 – interpretation of the meaning].

When Dawood realized that he had been too quick to judge, without listening to what the second disputant had to say, he hastened to repent: “… and he sought Forgiveness of his Lord, and he fell down prostrate and turned (to Allaah) in repentance.” [Saad 38:24 – interpretation of the meaning].

 

[KathleenGee]

Elwill,

In the Old Testament, the Jews were as spiritual children, hard headed, stubborn. And the law of the land in the ancient world was you take one of mine, I take 100 of yours…most people traveled at most 22 miles away from their homes.

Moses led the Jews out of Egypt, God becoming a pillar of fire and leading them across the desert. Through Moses, God parted the Red Sea…there is an existing place where chariot wheels are now seen in the water, there is a place (don’t know if it is the same) where the sea has receded to where one can walk across it…but I think the parting was traumatic. Otherwise the Egyptians and their steeds would have overcome the Jews and killed them. Instead the Red Sea swallowed the Egyptians.

Some times to protect the faith of the people, those who want to destroy them are the ones destroyed. Later the people were fed manna from heaven to sustain them. Their lack of faith kept them in the desert wandering for 40 years. It is not good to be impatient with God or complain about His leading.

Jewish customs used the goats to take on the sins of the people and driven to the desert. There was the sacrificial lambs sacrificed daily and their blood sprinkled on the people as in absolution. The innermost sanctuary had the Holiest of Holies sided by two cherubs. When the Temple was built, there was a veil as a curtain covering the place of God Who is with them.

Isaiah spoke of the Messiah, a man of sorrows and rejected, who would come to save the people from their sins. Only one person. No two people can do it. It is a waste of time to have one person do it that was chosen and fulfilled the practices of the ancient Jewish people, who were chosen to bring the Messiah.

We do not have two competing messiahs. God does not make mistakes. You as Muslim know that. He doesn’t have to do it two times. And if He does it for the Jews…the Messiah, Jesus Christ, is meant for all mankind, including Muslims.

Jesus bore our sins. He was tempted in every way. When He was baptized at River Jordan by St. John the Baptist, His cousin, St. John and his followers heard a voice from heaven, God said, 'Here is my Beloved Son, for Whom I am well pleased." God had never revealed Himself as Father, but as J----h to the Jewish people. He was revealing a new dimension of Himself.

Just as you have Allah and His Spirit – we would define that as two Persons – a new dimension came…Christ as His Son —this was not clearly prophesized in the Old Testament that the Son of God would come as the Messiah…God can do anything and He can reveal Himself Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He is all powerful. He created this entire universe and He can reveal Himself any way He wants.

Jesus was fully human like us. He was tempted in all ways. He wept for us, and we cannot imagine the great love Christ has for us until we are united with Him in heaven. When we are in heaven, we will have no more tears, we will not be in bondage by our flesh that leads us to sin. Christ will fill all our needs. And at the end of the world, our refined bodies will be restored to our souls, the old earth destroyed, heaven taken, and we receiving a new heaven and new earth. How else we know, we don’t. We must await in faith, in mystery.

So no two timing. In English, we talk about two timers…unfaithful…fickle.

There is only one Messiah; Christ is prophet but He fulfilled all prophets. May be the people in the MIddle East are not ready to receive Him and so Muhammed gave you religion to unite and pay homage to God.

But Christ also gave us inner freedom and liberty. Through Christ we are no longer slaves. A slave cannot overcome, cannot be free. It is in freedom that we can be creative, produce, build, and restore this world. Is it perfect? No.

Christ, sinless, came of Virgin Mary, ever Virgin most pure. Christ could not receive sinful flesh. He was born of a sinless woman. Mary, as sinless, is God’s creation, not our dogma. It took Christianity 2,000 years to reflect on the spiritual life of Christians around the world to finally proclaim that when it came to Mary, she was conceived without sin.

Elwill, may be you can study Mary of Lourdes where she gave S. Bernadette her name.

Jesus, through the Holy Spirit Who gave Him His divinity, and Mary who gave Christ sinless flesh is unique. There is no other being like Christ.

 

[jakasaki]

Since this thread is about “Islamic Views”, I have a question about ramadan & satan.

I hope I have this information right.

The way I understand it through muslim friends and internet postings, that during the 30 days of ramadan, satan is locked up and after ramadan is over, satan is released back into the world of man.

If this belief is true, who locks up satan and who releases him and why is he locked up only for ramadan.

Also, is this in the koran because I have not been able to find it, or is it in hadiths.

Thanks!

 

[elwill]

Since this thread is about “Islamic Views”, I have a question about ramadan & satan.

I hope I have this information right.

The way I understand it through muslim friends and internet postings, that during the 30 days of ramadan, satan is locked up and after ramadan is over, satan is released back into the world of man.

If this belief is true, who locks up satan and who releases him and why is he locked up only for ramadan.

Also, is this in the koran because I have not been able to find it, or is it in hadiths.

Thanks!

Abu Hurairah, (may Allah be pleased with him) quoted the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) as saying: “When the month of Ramadan comes, the gates of Paradise are opened and the gates of the Hellfire are closed, and the devils are chained.” (Reported by al-Bukhari)

The statement only means that as far as the believers who are observing the rules of Allah are concerned, Satan’s control over them is diminished. This month, with all of its many blessings and spiritual incentives, puts pressure on Satan, and therefore it acts as a kind of a barrier between them and it.

Ibn Khuzaymah also states that ‘putting the devils in chains’ means that their activity during the blessed month is (only) reduced

 

[Alcrusader]

i agree with you , he isn’t normal human but still not God

OK my friend, If he’s not a normal Human, nor God, than he is " God who took a human body"!

2-253 Those apostles We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan.

 

[Steven_John]

I dont usually discuss hadiths as i am still trying to work through Quran.

I also do better not to chime in on posts between two so forgive me if this is unfair to your discussion.

for any that does not know it may help that hadiths are hearsay recorded and cross referenced and ranked from strong to less compiled in books.

The first six are normally referred to by people as hadiths. In my experience Muslims rarely go beyond the first couple of books to share and explain the life of Mohamed (pbuh) and teaching of the Quran.

My experience is when Muslims use the latter of the six books they have an axe to grind so to speak and regardless of what the person they are talking with says they cling to the one small thing they have found.

My understanding of hadiths is they are to help Muslims work things out between themselves if they are un able to conclude discussions amongst them selves using the Quran.

From time to time i meet non Muslims with their own axe to grind who try to push on muslims “you have to believe in my understanding of this hadith because you are a muslim”

I guess it shows how far we have to go in understanding other people and learn to respect if they say they dont believe some thing we need to back off before we look foolish and discredit our own self and maybe witness poor image for our religion strengthening the others belief of correctness.

Peace and blessings

 

[Steven_John]

Dear Alcrusader, you have really misread my posts and gone of in your imagination.
I have been reading only a little of you posts.
I have seen people say to you very plain “i dont believe that” and you have persisted in telling them they do.

How could i possibly have a conversation with you that would be real.

Bless you and i will keep praying for you but am at a loss to say words that will help you enter into conversation with any on but your self.

May G-d bless and guide us all.

 

[Steven_John]

Dear Alcrusader,
I have pmed you half a response, i am not good with typing so have sent it in too halves your box is full so cant send you second half, the best bit if you like let me know when ur box is good again.

Peace and blessings

 

[Pitcharan]

*I have met Turkish Muslims who were the sweetest and gentlist people who love and respect. They have gone back to Turkey but I will contact their offices here and talk to them. We socialised a lot and went to some concerts and on one occasion one of the ladies Aisha was saying that she had read the New Testament. These Muslims were far more reasonable. They were loving and I cannot imagine them killing…

*

Search history and learn who were responsible for the shift of religious authority from the Caliph of Turkey to the present one in Saudi Arabia

 

[elwill]

OK my friend, If he’s not a normal Human, nor God, than he is " God who took a human body"!

 

[Alcrusader]

Dear Alcrusader, you have really misread my posts and gone of in your imagination.
I have been reading only a little of you posts.
I have seen people say to you very plain “i dont believe that” and you have persisted in telling them they do.

How could i possibly have a conversation with you that would be real.

Bless you and i will keep praying for you but am at a loss to say words that will help you enter into conversation with any on but your self.

May G-d bless and guide us all.

Dear Alcrusader,
I have pmed you half a response, i am not good with typing so have sent it in too halves your box is full so cant send you second half, the best bit if you like let me know when ur box is good again.

Peace and blessings

I apologize to you Steven, If my post looked like if I’m attacking you, I replied back to your message, and hope you accept my apologies.

But concerning what I’ve said in all my posts, It 100% all true. Look my dear, I’m sure about each and every world I post it on this forum, and not inventing nor creating anything from my head. Unless I’m 100% sure of what I’m saying I wouldn’t say it.
The people who understood me wrong they did so because of their good intentions and their love to God. But the fact is that they don’t know that what I’ve posted in the last post is true, and thought that I’m maybe even attacking God “Jehovah” where in fact I’m speaking about ALLAH the god of Mecca.

I apologize if anyone felt attacked by my post, and I’m responsible for each and every world I’ve said it.

Peace and Love our Lord be with you.