Understanding Islamic Views

[jakasaki]

For Shia ~ Famdigy ~

I read once somewhere… don’t remember… that when saying the Shahada, Shia’s place Ali’s name in there somewhere within.

Is that true…?

 

[bosnian_muslim]

all the churches had mourning hours after Arafats death…some weird individuals maybe support Israel but they are very few

 

[scipio337]

all the churches had mourning hours after Arafats death…some weird individuals maybe support Israel but they are very few

They mourned Arafat because he aided Christians during the Lebanese Civil War. Arafat is not “the Palestinian cause”, considering how Christians have been treated, historically, by Islamists like Hizbollah and Hamas.

Only “weird” Lebanese Crhistians support Israel? The prevailing “Zionists are eeevil” weltanschauung rears its ugly head, and again, you’re broadbrushing.

 

[bosnian_muslim]

I dont know and i dont care about lebanese christians,i was talking about palestinian chriistians…that i know very well

 

[scipio337]

I dont know and i dont care about lebanese christians,i was talking about palestinian chriistians…that i know very well

And again, Arafat/Fatah was very equitable to Palestinian Christians, especially regarding Christian Holy Sites. Not so much Hamas, who now represents the “Palestinian case” in Gaza, at least.

The original discussion was regarding Lebanon as a former Christian majority, not Palestinian Christians.

 

[StevieD]

what about new thread for discussing his dicoveries , i will be happy to discuss what he have

Sounds reasonable. In the meantime do you have a view on the fact that he has had to go into hiding for saying something that most muslims say openly about the Old and New Testaments?

 

[jakasaki]

Sounds reasonable. In the meantime do you have a view on the fact that he has had to go into hiding for saying something that most muslims say openly about the Old and New Testaments?

Perhaps you should put this inquiry under your new thread as well…

I would love to discuss the Yemen koan as well as all of the other korans Uthman burned…

 

[elwill]

Sounds reasonable. In the meantime do you have a view on the fact that he has had to go into hiding for saying something that most muslims say openly about the Old and New Testaments?

actually i know nothing about him and his writings

 

[famdigy]

For Shia ~ Famdigy ~

I read once somewhere… don’t remember… that when saying the Shahada, Shia’s place Ali’s name in there somewhere within.

Is that true…?

In the testimony of faith (Shahadah) NO we don’t add Ali’s name. However we do mention “Ali is the friend of Allah” in the call to prayer. This practice started after the Ummayid policy of ordering Ali’s name be cursed from the pulpits of every mosque before and after every prayer and so when the true believer stands to pray he/she affirms that Ali is the friend of Allah.

 

[famdigy]

Again wrong…:dts:

No SAM, you’re confusing 2 different things here. Look back into history and tell me when was the first time Muslims began refferring to themselves as Sunnis. It certainly was not during the life time of the Noble Prophet. Now look back into history again and tell me when was the first time the term Ahlul-Sunnah Wal-Jama’ah was used, again not in the lifetime of the prophet. It was first used in the year 40/41 AH. The year Mu’awiyah unified the Arab territories under his rule.

 

[famdigy]

heheh this son of Mary you can play with it, even put him in the water and drink him!
He’s not Jesus THE REAL JESUS, nor it will be…
It’s Just a corrupted Copy of The real Jesus from the point of which Mohammad understood about him

I’m sorry to break it to you but the Jesus you believe in was a figment of Paul’s imagination. You can worship him all you want to no avail. Let’s be reasonable here, how can a man who is weak, feels pain & hunger and is dependant both externally (i.e. air) and internally through the different body organs keeping him alive be a God. The dependant one is not the same as the Independent One. The needy one is not the same as the One free from any need.
The real God is the one whom you call father.

 

[KathleenGee]

Famdigy…

You are also very wrong about Paul…he completely bears the fruit of Jesus Christ and St. Paul’s mission was to the Gentiles, to help open the door so to speak, to them. Otherwise, we would have a Jewish dominant church…and many would not feel the Church is speaking to them.

All saints must bear the fruits of Jesus Christ…The Apostles who were witness to the entire life of Jesus Christ, and saw Him – who broke the power of death because He is both True God and True Man – on the day of the Resurrection, would not accept any person as a witness as they were.

However, when the Apostles encountered St. Paul, they knew through the discerning support of the Holy Spirit that this man was indeed sent to them. St. Paul later admonished St. Peter for backing off from the dream Peter had of the many animals…that through Jesus Christ…all was redeemed…but that we are to abstain from meat offered to idols or found on the road side, or eat blood…blood being the part of the body that carried diseases…

As Muslims cannot understand the Bible and call it corrupt…Muslims need to see they are outside Judeo-Christian culture and the revelation of Jesus Christ as the completion of God’s work in teaching Who He is to us.

However, the Muslims are God’s people…those who practice peace and tolerance. I find it astonishing the remarks those who condemn Paul and the answers always reflect the ongoing misunderstanding of Scriptures and the saving and redeeming presence Christ continues to give.

Ironically, it would be St. Paul that Muslims would be helped in becoming Christian.
St. Peter was working with the Jews, was active in the Orthodox synagogues…and was caving in to pressure to force Gentiles to abstain from pork and be circumcized…when all that was necessary was seeking repentance of sin through baptism and acknowledging Christ as True Redeemer and Messiah…This all happened 2,000 years ago and it can’t be repeated again.

The Revelation of God ended with Jesus Christ. the fulfillment of all Prophets, Kings, and the Messiah mankind has waited for.

Before God we are all equal…there are many other cultures and peoples who come to Christ through Judeo Christians, Muslims included and it doesn’t imply that some the rest of everyone is inferior. Christian, Jew, Muslim, pagan, atheist…before God we are all the same…mankind needing our savior Jesus Christ.

St. Paul came to open the door of heaven for the Muslims. St. Peter’s work was the first head of the Church he spent alot of time working with the Jews. Ss. Peter and Paul hold the keys to the church. This all finished a long time ago.

You take out St. Paul, you take out the 2nd readings of the Mass…to take out St Paul is akin to saying Jesus was never crucified…The second readings of the Mass–the Acts and Epistles have been around for 2000 years. The fruit of Jesus Christ is the discerning key to see if someone is bearing truth or not. St. Paul bears fruit, and like Peter, Christ renamed him from Saul to Paul.

But you are giving us insights, atleast to me, when you speak of the Umayyids and they sounded like rascals…creating stories to make landclaims.

 

[Kitsune633]

I’m sorry to break it to you but the Jesus you believe in was a figment of Paul’s imagination. You can worship him all you want to no avail. Let’s be reasonable here, how can a man who is weak, feels pain & hunger and is dependant both externally (i.e. air) and internally through the different body organs keeping him alive be a God. The dependant one is not the same as the Independent One. The needy one is not the same as the One free from any need.
The real God is the one whom you call father.

And sorry to break it to you but Muhammed isn’t a prophet of God. He’s a madman, a pedophile, and he was probably possessed by a Djinn or the Devil himself when he received that…magic book of desert fables you call “The Qu’ran”. Muhammed could do no miracles, or even prove himself he’s a Prophet and instead ordered the deaths of his opponents and criticizers. Islam is not a religion, its what Muhammed used to satisfy his ego, lust, and monetary needs. So hey there Ali Baba, your harem in your palace is awaiting, what? You’re gonna leave your wives alone?Or stop hearing the messages of your religious leaders?

 

[KathleenGee]

Thing is Famdigy, Muslims are reading materials that compromise and distort the Bible…the Word of God…

Try looking at a Catholic catechism…go in sequence…

 

[Alcrusader]

you make it sound as if all the lebanese think like you,but lebanon is mostly muslim and all the muslims love their brothers and sisters from Palestine…and they dont regret anything

Well you said it… ONLY SUNNI MUSLIM love Palestinians…

 

[Alcrusader]

Lebanon WAS mostly Christian with a muslim minority. That is what we are talking about. Lebanon WAS a mostly free, westernized, modern country, with tolerance & respect for everyone, much like the west. They were sucked into the conflict when they took in the Palestinians & the PLO set up shop on their territory & started attacking Israel. Then the attacks on Christians started until the civil war caused untold deaths & misery. By the time the Christians recognized what was happening to THEIR country, they were being murdered.Im certain the muslims dont see anything wrong or regretful about it but Im quite certain the Christians might have another, entirely different side of the story!

You have to know something.
The way things in Lebanon is is toooo complicated…
yes Muslims WHO LIVE on the Lebanese soil now are more than Christians, this is because of the huge immigration of Christians from Lebanon due to the last years.
The statistic you find on the net are only the statistic made to those people who LIVE ALWAYS in Lebanon. It doesn’t count those who live out side the country.

So the General population of Lebanon is still Mainly Christian where only 1.5 mill of them live in Lebanon.

So no Lebanon IS NOT A MUSLIM COUNTRY, it only have 2.5 mill Muslim, where the total number on Lebanese people inside the country and outside it is more than 14 mill

 

[Alcrusader]

I’m sorry to break it to you but the Jesus you believe in was a figment of Paul’s imagination. You can worship him all you want to no avail. Let’s be reasonable here, how can a man who is weak, feels pain & hunger and is dependant both externally (i.e. air) and internally through the different body organs keeping him alive be a God. The dependant one is not the same as the Independent One. The needy one is not the same as the One free from any need.
The real God is the one whom you call father.

Why didn’t you anwser the question I’ve addressed to you?
Do you think we worship 3 gods or 1 god?

 

[Alcrusader]

*Dear Alcrusader,

I have heard this story many times and my heart truly does break from the anguish I hear every time I hear it.
What I want to ask you is what were the mistakes you made?*

What you in the west are doing… is all mistakes… and one day you gonna be like us if you didn’t react…
Are you familiar with this proverb:" Forgive but not Forget" ?

It looks like forgetting is something normal…

 

[Alcrusader]

They mourned Arafat because he aided Christians during the Lebanese Civil War. Arafat is not “the Palestinian cause”, considering how Christians have been treated, historically, by Islamists like Hizbollah and Hamas.

Only “weird” Lebanese Crhistians support Israel? The prevailing “Zionists are eeevil” weltanschauung rears its ugly head, and again, you’re broadbrushing.

Our Problem With Israel is Palestinians.
Once it’s solved we have nothing to do with Israel nor Arabs.

 

[KathleenGee]

I need to back up to a previous post that I said the Moslems understand Islam through a fundamentalist approach, and then Famdigy provided a sequence of studies in acquiring knowledge of Islam.

What was concerning me in Islam is how God can contradict Himself…I see the same contradiction of thoughts and ideas coming forth when Muslims attempt to change the Bible, the events…a sort of denial thing that is based more on personal issues than observing other religions for what they are and what they profess to be. Or how Muslims can be experts on the Bible, on Christianity that is outside the land of Islam.

I also said that Islam represents its origin of a nomadic desert people…it has a different culture…yes, there are some Americans here who are converting…but they are bypassing something they do not know about their own personal cultural history…

I came to an article this evening on Catholiconline.com, the article regards a conversation with Robert R. Reilly who authored the book, ‘The Closing of the Muslim Mind: How Intellectual Suicide Created the Modern Islamist Crisis’. The article is entitled, ‘When Islam Abandoned Reason: A Conversation with Robert R Reilly.’

Mr Reilly states Islam has a concept of God without reason, and this is very dangerous because it leads to violence. The other statement he made is that Islam is ahistorical…and that explains to me why Muslims believe their understanding of a foreign religion is understood better by them, when in fact they are believing in myths and illusions of the true Christ. There are those who do not understand or recognize historical facts…the better word is in recognizing historical facts. Or rejecting them and believing in myths…

One Muslim believed that to restore Islam to its previous use of reason would be a great feat as so many aspects of life would have to be changed…and what he would do is re-Hellenize the region…Islam overtook the Byzantine Empire through slaughter. And now it needs to let it prosper again for its own preservation…

When violence is promoted, then it eventually goes full circle…Christ said those who live by the sword, die by the sword…