Understanding the Trinity

[Vico]

Vico - What I find interesting is that the Revelation Before Christ and the Revelation after Christ have not built a Trinity. Both believe in One exalted God, the Holy Spirit and the Messenger.

It could be that this Doctrine is what Christ warned mankind about when he warned of adding to scripture. Christ was not talking about New revelations from God, but adding meaning that was not intended. Muhammad did warn the Christians to not take the Path of making God 3.

Of course this would be hard for the Church to come to terms with. But the Bible has warned us these times will be difficult. The Church was indeed the path Christ anticipated and it may be hard to consider that this may need a rethink!

As we approach the 1000 mark, I think the subject has been covered front to back now on all three sides Catholic, Muslim and Baha’i - Also a couple of Born Agains

Regards Tony

The Trinity was revealed at the baptism of Christ. Revelation was completed by Jesus Christ. So, of course, since it was established in the early Church it defines Christianity and to change it would mean the end of Christianity.

 

[MartinJordan]

Even one error means it’s not the Holy Spirit talking, it’s man

The fact that a Catholic Church and an Orthodox Church exists (even if was just those two only, forget the other denominations) it should immediately tell you that there is doubt as to the authenticity of ALL teaching.

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When things are ordered like the Trinity, there is no chance of error.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

The Trinity was revealed at the baptism of Christ. Revelation was completed by Jesus Christ. So, of course, since it was established in the early Church it defines Christianity and to change it would mean the end of Christianity.

Vico, as I was saying earlier about Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, when he said (I paraphrase) “the Old and New Testament is the continuous revelation of the true understanding of the Trinity”.

The teaching, allows us to live the Gospel. It is live and active. That kind of life, goes on. Living, breathing, Glory to God.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

When things are ordered like the Trinity, there is no chance of error.

MJ

So God creates order AND disorder??

I wonder what our friend Techno would say if Baha’u’llah revealed ordered teachings and disordered teachings

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[MartinJordan]

So God creates order AND disorder??

I wonder what our friend Techno would say if Baha’u’llah revealed ordered teachings and disordered teachings

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Order means depending only on God. Our Scripture is used to help us in knowledge of Christ.

Once one uses Scripture by the Church and deny it coming up with another teaching, then it is disorder.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

Order means depending only on God. Our Scripture is used to help us in knowledge of Christ.

Once one uses Scripture by the Church and deny it coming up with another teaching, then it is disorder.

MJ

A bit like how those Orthodox Churches have used the Scripture by the Church and deny it coming up with another teaching to the Catholic Church.

The Orthodox Church must be disordered I guess??

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[MartinJordan]

A bit like how those Orthodox Churches have used the Scripture by the Church and deny it coming up with another teaching to the Catholic Church.

The Orthodox Church must be disordered I guess??

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Did you not see what I wrote about that Trinity? And the Orthodox? There is no other Trinity than the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. We are one in that. Kindly keep the good spirit of our dialogue.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

Did you not see what I wrote about that Trinity? And the Orthodox? There is no other Trinity than the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. We are one in that. Kindly keep the good spirit of our dialogue.

MJ

My apologies for the dropping of my standards of goodwill and a spirit of fellowship. There is a reason but there is no excuse, my faith should always overcome my human frailties…

I read what you wrote about the Trinity, but I wonder if you can answer these 2 questions please?

1. Is all teaching from the Catholic Church given by the Holy Spirit?
2. Is all teaching from the Orthodox Church given by the Holy Spirit?

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[MartinJordan]

My apologies for the dropping of my standards of goodwill and a spirit of fellowship. There is a reason but there is no excuse, my faith should always overcome my human frailties…

I read what you wrote about the Trinity, but I wonder if you can answer these 2 questions please?

1. Is all teaching from the Catholic Church given by the Holy Spirit?
2. Is all teaching from the Orthodox Church given by the Holy Spirit?

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Glad you feel better.

Well, I’m not a Theologian so I’ll however say that there is a long history between our two “Lungs” and can be quite complicated to answer, between two sides that are made up of men.

However, the Holy Spirit doesn’t change to the will of men. We as Catholics and Orthodox know what separates us is the human frailty not the Spirit. We are fallible but yet we know the Holy Spirit is infallible. We remain committed to continue listening to the Holy Spirit, sent by Jesus.

MJ

 

[TonyBS]

Glad you feel better.

Well, I’m not a Theologian so I’ll however say that there is a long history between our two “Lungs” and can be quite complicated to answer, between two sides that are made up of men.

However, the Holy Spirit doesn’t change to the will of men. We as Catholics and Orthodox know what separates us is the human frailty not the Spirit. We are fallible but yet we know the Holy Spirit is infallible. We remain committed to continue listening to the Holy Spirit, sent by Jesus.

MJ

All you have to do is expand that thought and you now commit to listening to the Holy Spirit through 3 more Revelations

Regards Tony

 

[MartinJordan]

All you have to do is expand that thought and you now commit to listening to the Holy Spirit through 3 more Revelations

Regards Tony

The Holy Spirit is alive and active. Sending to us the mutual self giving love of the Father and the Son. What we now await with Joy is Jesus coming, but work on being ready to welcome him at Consummation of the world where we will see him as he really is.

MJ

 

[Vico]

Vico, as I was saying earlier about Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, when he said (I paraphrase) “the Old and New Testament is the continuous revelation of the true understanding of the Trinity”.

The teaching, allows us to live the Gospel. It is live and active. That kind of life, goes on. Living, breathing, Glory to God.

MJ

We grasp the full significance of the revelation, however, the infallible dogmas of Trinity will not change: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are consubstantial.

Catechism of the Catholic Church shows the Catholic faith on this:

There will be no further Revelation

66 “The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.” 28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the* sensus fidelium* knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.

28 Dei Verbum 4; cf. 1 Tim 6:14; Titus 2:13.

 

[Techno2000]

So God creates order AND disorder??

I wonder what our friend Techno would say if Baha’u’llah revealed ordered teachings and disordered teachings

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Techno, wouldn’t even be able to tell the difference.

 

[Techno2000]

Kindly keep the good spirit of our dialogue.

MJ

Servant19… does keep good the spirit in all the dealings I had with him, sometime surprisingly good with all I put him through.

 

[Servant19]

Servant19… does keep good the spirit in all the dealings I had with him, sometime surprisingly good with all I put him through.

You do put me through some stormy days Techno, but all in all, I think I’ve learnt to giggle at it all now and I won’t hesitate to tell you off if you’re getting cheeky.

Like my younger brother really, the love is there

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[Servant19]

Glad you feel better.

Well, I’m not a Theologian so I’ll however say that there is a long history between our two “Lungs” and can be quite complicated to answer, between two sides that are made up of men.

However, the Holy Spirit doesn’t change to the will of men. We as Catholics and Orthodox know what separates us is the human frailty not the Spirit. We are fallible but yet we know the Holy Spirit is infallible. We remain committed to continue listening to the Holy Spirit, sent by Jesus.

MJ

Unitarian Universalists claim Apostolic succession dating back to the Ebionites and James the Just.

They don’t believe in the full divinity of Jesus. Are they guided by the Holy Spirit too?

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[eddie_too]

I do not foresee much success for people who think that those of us who believe that God so loved the world that He sent His ONLY begotten Son so that whoever might believe in Him would be saved should reject this believe and instead believe that God did not so love the world.

why would any rational human being stop believing that their Creator loved them so much that He chose to share their misery so that they would be freed from their misery?

it is wise to compare what others, specifically those who want you to stop placing your faith in the ONLY Son of God and His Gospel, are telling you to believe to the Gospel of Jesus Christ as we have received it through His apostles and their successors.

it is highly unlikely that people with no connection to the apostles and their successors have either the knowledge or understanding necessary to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. because of this, it makes sense that they reject the Lord’s Gospel and seek to replace it with a gospel of a human person.

 

[Techno2000]

I do not foresee much success for people who think that those of us who believe that God so loved the world that He sent His ONLY begotten Son so that whoever might believe in Him would be saved should reject this believe and instead believe that God did not so love the world.

why would any rational human being stop believing that their Creator loved them so much that He chose to share their misery so that they would be freed from their misery?

it is wise to compare what others, specifically those who want you to stop placing your faith in the ONLY Son of God and His Gospel, are telling you to believe to the Gospel of Jesus Christ as we have received it through His apostles and their successors.

it is highly unlikely that people with no connection to the apostles and their successors have either the knowledge or understanding necessary to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. because of this, it makes sense that they reject the Lord’s Gospel and seek to replace it with a gospel of a human person.

Right, when members of different people’s own religions can even agree amongst themselves how can you combined all the world religions into one ?

 

[Servant19]

Right, when members of different people’s own religions can even agree amongst themselves how can you combined all the world religions into one ?

I know Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant clergy, Muslim clergy, Buddhist monks, Hindu priests, and atheists that have all become Baha’is because they recognise the fundamental oneness of all religions. Man has strayed in interpreting religion because of an inner desire to seek God and to love Him as a means to explain physical and spiritual Reality. However, within the contexts shared in the Baha’i Writings, all human desires to show love to God can be seen and explained.

All expressions of love can be seen as a desire to love God.

Reality becomes one (not us vs them) and we become free under the Commandments of our Lord, all fear is removed, because everything that everyone does in the world becomes an expression of our desire for Gods love.

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[TonyBS]

The Holy Spirit is alive and active. Sending to us the mutual self giving love of the Father and the Son. What we now await with Joy is Jesus coming, but work on being ready to welcome him at Consummation of the world where we will see him as he really is.

MJ

I went on Pilgrimage and did get that bounty.

God bless you Martin - Regards Tony