Understanding the Trinity

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Micosil said:
It doesn’t. It only requires you to gaze at a crucifix. That’s all. 🙂
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Would not it first require a Knowledge and Love of the Sacrifice First.

Otherwise would I not only be looking at crossed Planks/Logs.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
TonyBS said:
See we can agree “The love of God is greater than you can imagine”.

God bless and Regards Tony
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I was referring to you specifically, since as Christians we know the love of God in Christ. You do not since you reject God’s (Christ’s) love. But this discussion has broken down it seems.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
One being what? The hindu gods? Are they alone one being or in the hindu sources are all gods, not just those three, one being?
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Originally Posted by IgnatianPhilo View Post
How is this a trinity? Are these three one in the same essence? Are they one in the same God? you mentioned before that Shiva is impersonal. Part of the trinity is that we see a community of persons, Father, Son and Spirit, who are personal, can interact and indeed even love each other.

You asked Are these three one in the same essence? Are they one in the same God?
A. There are one being which means one essence. Yes the same God, three forms. Nirguna is without form and saguna means with form.

The issue of person is more difficult for a person may be defined as rational being without form. Normally the Absolute is called impersonal, but this may be a distortion of without form.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
Again, why is this to be called a specifically trinitarian concept and not just a theological concept in general? Why do you laugh at me expecting in the term trinity being applied to something it historically has not been applied to? Again, can i take the islamic doctrine of tauwhid, the absolute oneness of God in essence and person and just redefine it to a trinitarian understanding in my attempts to convince Muslims?

Can I make the argument that theirs was a primitive understanding that needed enhancement by the gospel, that we Christians are truly the ones who believe in Tauwhid? Only if I were dishonest with words. Only if words have no real meaning.

You have essentially admitted the hindu concept of trinity is nothing like the Christian concept of trinity. So how is it they are both called trinity? Is it because they are three? Are we to call Zeus, Hades and Poseidon a trinity? Zeus being the father, Hades being the destroyer and Poseidon being the preserver? Again, what you are calling a trinity is a triad.

When asked about understanding the trinity, did the Op have in mind a totally foreign conception which in no way relates to the Christian idea? A Christian idea I might remind you which has dominated the use of the word trinity for centuries? I doubt it.
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Nearly all who have studied the Trimurti have concluded that the Being, the Thatness and the Holy Spirit are the expressions of a universal Godhead.

Sat Tat Om…chanted by pretty much all Hindus to represent this primordial expression of the Trinity.

.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
I was referring to you specifically, since as Christians we know the love of God in Christ. You do not since you reject God’s (Christ’s) love. But this discussion has broken down it seems.
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There is no discussion with an accusation one can not support. Only God knows.

God bless your Love

Regards Tony
 
Vico said:
Originally Posted by IgnatianPhilo View Post
How is this a trinity? Are these three one in the same essence? Are they one in the same God? you mentioned before that Shiva is impersonal. Part of the trinity is that we see a community of persons, Father, Son and Spirit, who are personal, can interact and indeed even love each other.

You asked Are these three one in the same essence? Are they one in the same God?
A. There are one being which means one essence. Yes the same God, three forms. Nirguna is without form and saguna means with form.

The issue of person is more difficult for a person may be defined as rational being without form. Normally the Absolute is called impersonal, but this may be a distortion of without form.
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Are the same in essence exclusively? That is only these three share the same essence or (as it seems to me) is that a type of pantheism is at play here wherein everything is the same essence ultimately. The choice to look at these three amongst the many united in essence is because they represent the best of the whole?

That’s an important element I would like to see adressed.
Servant19 said:
Nearly all who have studied the Trimurti have concluded that the Being, the Thatness and the Holy Spirit are the expressions of a universal Godhead.

Sat Tat Om…chanted by pretty much all Hindus to represent this primordial expression of the Trinity.

.
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This doesn’t convince me that it should be called a trinity and not a triad. Also do you believe in the Hindu trinity that these three are of the same being? Or is this a false aspect of Hinduism to you?
TonyBS said:
There is no discussion with an accusation one can not support. Only God knows.

God bless your Love

Regards Tony
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As a bahai who believes in the Quran you must reject what I said, that is God died for us. Someone before eloquently pointed to the cross of Christ. When the Christian sees this, they see their God. When you see it, you see a martyr, a man dying for a cause, not the eternal God to whom all honour worship and adoration as due.

Thus I suggest you do not understand the love of God. The Christian does understand hte love of God however, which the unbeliever (you) scoffs at (as evidenced when you said that you didn’t need to respond to it, as if you thought it ridiculous, which I know you do think it is ridiculous),
 
MartinJordan said:
Will you then be willing to be Baptised in the name of the Trinity?🙂

MJ
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That’s very kind of you Martin, but Baha’is already are baptised in the name of the Trinity (in ALL it’s glory) and acknowledge the Divinity of the Son and acknowledge the Son’s oneness in essence with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Baha’is are totally happy to call Jesus God or not God, we fully recognize the twin stations of the Human Temple manifested on earth of the Son.

.
 
Servant19 said:
That’s very kind of you Martin, but Baha’is already are baptised in the name of the Trinity (in ALL it’s glory) and acknowledge the Divinity of the Son and acknowledge the Son’s oneness in essence with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Baha’is are totally happy to call Jesus God or not God, we fully recognize the twin stations of the Human Temple manifested on earth of the Son.

.
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I am talking specifically about the Christian Trinitarian Baptism. Which is God, and never Not God (no separations nor part nor division) or in other words if Jesus is not God , then it’s not Trinity but Binity.

Btw, can you explain what kind of happiness you are talking about? It just seems more earthly happiness than eternal happiness imo. :o

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
I am talking specifically about the Christian Trinitarian Baptism. Which is God, and never Not God (no separations nor part nor division) or in other words if Jesus is not God , then it’s not Trinity but Binity.

Btw, can you explain what kind of happiness you are talking about? It just seems more earthly happiness than eternal happiness imo. :o

MJ
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Happiness transcends place or time Martin. I am happy on earth and in the afterlife to call Jesus God, however, you seem to not wish to acknowledge the human Jesus.

Is the cellular structures which occupy the organs of Jesus’s body also the cells of God? Is God cellular? Are the components of the glorified body of Christ the EXACT same as the physical, pre-glorified body of Christ?

,
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
This doesn’t convince me that it should be called a trinity and not a triad.
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Triad or Trinity is the same thing Ignatian. Didn’t the word “Trinity” come from the Latin trinitas (which means triad) and *trinus *(which means threefold)??

You are claiming exclusivity to a word and its definition which was always meaning “threefold” or “triad” anyway.

If the word Trinity or Triad were used interchangeably in Latin, then it can be said that it is Christianity that has changed the definition from what was given to Hinduism and later in Zoroastrianism…
Also do you believe in the Hindu trinity that these three are of the same being? Or is this a false aspect of Hinduism to you?
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Nope, the Baha’i Faith acknowledges the essential oneness of the 3 components/Persons of the Trinity. The light is symbolic of the essence which emanates from the Father, is reflected in the Son and is essential to the Holy Spirit.

.
 
Servant19 said:
Happiness transcends place or time Martin. I am happy on earth and in the afterlife to call Jesus God, however, you seem to not wish to acknowledge the human Jesus.
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I acknowledge that Jesus is God and Man. My love for Jesus cannot be separated. 🙂 Amen.

When he gave instruction to his Apostles to baptise in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, that was just before he ascended. So, he gave his last instruction till he comes again. Thus the Church and it’s Bishops, Baptise exactly as instructed.
Is the cellular structures which occupy the organs of Jesus’s body also the cells of God? Is God cellular? Are the components of the glorified body of Christ the EXACT same as the physical, pre-glorified body of Christ?
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,
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You think answering this will help one love God more? 🙂

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
I acknowledge that Jesus is God and Man. My love for Jesus cannot be separated. 🙂 Amen.

When he gave instruction to his Apostles to baptise in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, that was just before he ascended. So, he gave his last instruction till he comes again. Thus the Church and it’s Bishops, Baptise exactly as instructed.

You think answering this will help one love God more? 🙂

MJ
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Indeed one should not separate for as humans we are puny specks of dust, even to the human Jesus…His Divine aspect is unfathomable, but theology does explain both aspects.

In Judaism and Islam, the human aspect is focussed on more, in the Baha’i and Christian religions, the Divine aspect is emphasised, that’s all.

I think one will love God more when all aspects are embraced and acknowledged as Truth, comprehensively. Saying that one should only acknowledge their own way is limiting ones love of God 🙂

So when you say “specifically” I firmly believe you are asking me to limit my love of God.
I can’t limit the Limitless One…

.
 
MartinJordan said:
Will you then be willing to be Baptised in the name of the Trinity?🙂 MJ
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Dear Martin - Are you willing to take part in the full Baptism, which includes the Baptism of Fire.

Matthew 3:11 - “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire”.

Luke 3:16 - "John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire”.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
As a bahai who believes in the Quran you must reject what I said, that is God died for us. Someone before eloquently pointed to the cross of Christ. When the Christian sees this, they see their God. When you see it, you see a martyr, a man dying for a cause, not the eternal God to whom all honour worship and adoration as due.

Thus I suggest you do not understand the love of God. The Christian does understand hte love of God however, which the unbeliever (you) scoffs at (as evidenced when you said that you didn’t need to respond to it, as if you thought it ridiculous, which I know you do think it is ridiculous),
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I fail to see how a deficient understanding of the Koran and personal references to me add to and support any view on a trinity. There is no need to discuss this anymore, you have made your view known, you know there are other views.

God bless all and Regards Tony
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
Are the same in essence exclusively? That is only these three share the same essence or (as it seems to me) is that a type of pantheism is at play here wherein everything is the same essence ultimately. The choice to look at these three amongst the many united in essence is because they represent the best of the whole?

That’s an important element I would like to see addressed.
…,
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The souls (jiva) are not identical with Siva. Souls have been created. The Reality or Supreme Being is Siva in this religion.

However, there are some schools of Saivism that are non-dualistic.
 
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