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clem456
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That’s fine but that’s not really what I said.God bless you Clem.
Christianity is not unique in this way at all. I know many religious communities who experience this pouring out of love
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Vico
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No more prophets of revelation, for we now have the Church of Christ established. Catechism:
65 "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son."26 Christ, the Son of God made man, is the Father’s one, perfect and unsurpassable Word. In him he has said everything; there will be no other word than this one. St. John of the Cross, among others, commented strikingly on Hebrews 1:1-2:
In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word - and he has no more to say. . . because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behavior but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty.
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26 Heb 1:1-2.
27 St. John of the Cross, The Ascent of Mount Carmel 2,22,3-5 in The Collected Works of St. John of the Cross, tr. K. Kavanaugh, OCD, and O. Rodriguez, OCD (Washington DC:Institute of Carmelite Studies, 1979),179-180:LH, OR Advent, week 2, Mon.
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26 Heb 1:1-2.
27 St. John of the Cross, The Ascent of Mount Carmel 2,22,3-5 in The Collected Works of St. John of the Cross, tr. K. Kavanaugh, OCD, and O. Rodriguez, OCD (Washington DC:Institute of Carmelite Studies, 1979),179-180:LH, OR Advent, week 2, Mon.
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eddie_too
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I and all the male members of my family “appear” to be men.
st. paul used the word translated as “appearance” to indicate that Jesus was not only a human being, but more than a human being despite His appearing to be only a man.
I have not found playing translation and interpretation games to be useful or productive in light of the fact that Jesus created a system and institution wherein His flock could be confident that they are receiving the fullness of His Gospel until the end of the world.
there has been no need for God to send more prophets because He set up the RCC to replace His use of prophets in the Old Testament.
st. paul used the word translated as “appearance” to indicate that Jesus was not only a human being, but more than a human being despite His appearing to be only a man.
I have not found playing translation and interpretation games to be useful or productive in light of the fact that Jesus created a system and institution wherein His flock could be confident that they are receiving the fullness of His Gospel until the end of the world.
there has been no need for God to send more prophets because He set up the RCC to replace His use of prophets in the Old Testament.
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TonyBS
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Understanding the Trinity is also understanding our mistakes of the past.
Jews State - No further Message - There was one, Christ
Christian State - No further Message - There was one, Muhammad.
Muslims sate no further Message - There was Two, Bab then Baha’u’llah.
Baha’is State All from the One God, All of the One Holy Spiirt, All the Same message suited to the age it was given.
Thus from this post I think it all has been said and each persons point been given.
God bless all Regards Tony
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Servant19
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Thank you for answering these questions Vico…
But if all men sin and God sends prophets to “lead them back when they stray”, and men continue to stray and sin, what is the point of the prophets being sent? Why send multiple prophets and not just one?
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Vico
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God give man free will, so there will always be sin. Christ has redeemed mankind and brought the truth, so no more prophets. The Church of Christ is established and Christ instituted the sacraments of the new law for the justification and sanctification of those the choose to love God.
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TonyBS
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I think to understand the Trinity one also has to consider Christ said he Would return. There is numerous biblical passages that support this - This One Link has 100 Passages - openbible.info/topics/the_second_coming_of_jesus
Always good to consider.
God bless and Regards Tony
Always good to consider.
God bless and Regards Tony
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Vico
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At The Last Judgement.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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TonyBS
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Yes - The Western prophetic religions such as Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have developed concepts of the Last Judgment that are rich in imagery.
This judgement thus is in every age that a Message from God is given. Mankind then is judged on acceptance or rejection of Gods Message.
The Trinity is a key concept in also understanding the Judgement aspect of Faith in God.
Regards Tony
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Vico
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I can see where Bahai could believe this, however not Christians, since there is only one Last Judgement. Also there may be many prophets but only one incarnation, the Son of God, Jesus Christ.
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TonyBS
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Yes from our point of view we all face our Judgement
and Yes there has been only one Jesus of Nazareth who was the Christ.
We must Love God and Jesus with all our heart and all our Soul
God Bless and Regards Tony
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Vico
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Christianity belief is that the is only one divine Incarnation.Yes from our point of view we all face our Judgement
and Yes there has been only one Jesus of Nazareth who was the Christ.
We must Love God and Jesus with all our heart and all our Soul
God Bless and Regards Tony
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Servant19
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Hi Vico,
I’m not sure that this answers my question as to why God would sent OT prophet after prophet only for man to continue sinning. We have always had free will, so why so many prophets?
Is there another possible reason that you can shed light on please?
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Servant19
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Servant19
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Hi Vico, this looooong conversation we are having is trying to address this post of yours:
The point I am trying to show you is that the Old Testament (and Zoroastrianism and Hinduism) ALSO reveals that the Holy Spirit was a manifestation of God’s presence. When David confessed his sin, he pleaded with God: “Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me” (Psalm 51:11). Other passages also highlight this role also (Psalm 139:7)
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This is what I covenanted with you when you came out of Egypt. And my Spirit remains among you. Do not fear.’* (Haggai 2:4-5)…
God always, always gave His Spirit to abide in us. Yes, it is our free will to either embrace or turn away from this Spirit, but HE ALWAYS also provided a Human Temple to speak His Word.
It seems limiting of God’s love to mankind to say that He will no longer give us another Human Temple to guide us towards His Will. This is why Christian teaching about finality, and Jewish teaching about finality, and Islamic teaching about finality is really actually limiting the Limitless One. This manifests itself in some of the problems we see in the world today and in the past.
The Baha’i Faith removes that limitation and says that ALL previous Prophets came with the Holy Spirit AND the Spoken Word, and God will always continue to do likewise. Every time He does this, it is termed the “Last Days” as it was during Jesus’ time (as attested to by St. Paul), and as it is today (as attested to by Baha’u’llah)
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You say that God has forever shown His love to mankind through the Eucharist which enables Jesus to “abide in us” and Jesus sent us His Spirit to remain with us.
The point I am trying to show you is that the Old Testament (and Zoroastrianism and Hinduism) ALSO reveals that the Holy Spirit was a manifestation of God’s presence. When David confessed his sin, he pleaded with God: “Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me” (Psalm 51:11). Other passages also highlight this role also (Psalm 139:7)
*
This is what I covenanted with you when you came out of Egypt. And my Spirit remains among you. Do not fear.’* (Haggai 2:4-5)…
God always, always gave His Spirit to abide in us. Yes, it is our free will to either embrace or turn away from this Spirit, but HE ALWAYS also provided a Human Temple to speak His Word.
It seems limiting of God’s love to mankind to say that He will no longer give us another Human Temple to guide us towards His Will. This is why Christian teaching about finality, and Jewish teaching about finality, and Islamic teaching about finality is really actually limiting the Limitless One. This manifests itself in some of the problems we see in the world today and in the past.
The Baha’i Faith removes that limitation and says that ALL previous Prophets came with the Holy Spirit AND the Spoken Word, and God will always continue to do likewise. Every time He does this, it is termed the “Last Days” as it was during Jesus’ time (as attested to by St. Paul), and as it is today (as attested to by Baha’u’llah)
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Vico
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There have been a lot of OT prophets.
**Major
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Isaiah, Jeremiah, Baruch, Ezekiel, Daniel.
Minor
Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi.
NT, Jesus Christ said John the Forerunner was a great prophet:
Luke 7:28 For I say to you: Amongst those that are born of women, there is not a greater prophet that John the Baptist.
Catechism522 The coming of God’s Son to earth is an event of such immensity that God willed to prepare for it over centuries. He makes everything converge on Christ: all the rituals and sacrifices, figures and symbols of the “First Covenant”.195 He announces him through the mouths of the prophets who succeeded one another in Israel. Moreover, he awakens in the hearts of the pagans a dim expectation of this coming.
195 Heb 9:15
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Servant19
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Thankyou again Vico, so it is clear then that part of the role of the OT prophets was to PREPARE and GUIDE people towards the spiritual regeneration heralded by the coming of the Messiah…
I think my post #253 above, then, becomes very pertinent
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Servant19
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I’m not sure if anyone is playing games here eddie.
The interpretations I am presenting are not completely and utterly off key. English is my primary language and I am able to read with clarity and precision.
You say that :
“st. paul used the word translated as “appearance” to indicate that Jesus was not only a human being, but more than a human being despite His appearing to be only a man.”
If God was fully human, then what is the “more than human” you talk about here? Is there more to God than God Himself?
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Servant19
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Thankyou again Vico, so it is clear then that part of the role of the OT prophets was to PREPARE and GUIDE people towards the spiritual regeneration heralded by the coming of the Messiah…
I think my post #253 above, then, becomes very pertinent
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Vico
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In that post you said: “God always, always gave His Spirit to abide in us. Yes, it is our free will to either embrace or turn away from this Spirit, but HE ALWAYS also provided a Human Temple to speak His Word.”Thankyou again Vico, so it is clear then that part of the role of the OT prophets was to PREPARE and GUIDE people towards the spiritual regeneration heralded by the coming of the Messiah…
I think my post #253 above, then, becomes very pertinent
What I posted earlier describes that guidance, however what you call Human Temple is not clear, perhaps you mean various prophets, but you have capitalized it which implies something else. There is only one with both human and divine nature in one person, Jesus Christ, per Christianity. Jesus Christ has come and opened the door for us which had been shut from the time Adam was cast out from the delight of Paradise, and God set the Cherubim and the flaming sword, that turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13501945&postcount=232
According to our Catholic faith, the coming of the only Messiah, Jesus Christ, is the fulfillment and the Church of Christ which subsists in the Catholic Church The Church “is the visible plan of God’s love for humanity,” because God desires “that the whole human race may become one People of God, form one Body of Christ, and be built up into one temple of the Holy Spirit.” (Pope Paul VI, June 22, 1973.) See Lumen Gentium 17:
- As the Son was sent by the Father,(131) so He too sent the Apostles, saying: “Go, therefore, make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days even to the consummation of the world”.(132) The Church has received this solemn mandate of Christ to proclaim the saving truth from the apostles and must carry it out to the very ends of the earth.(133) Wherefore she makes the words of the Apostle her own: “Woe to me, if I do not preach the Gospel”,(134) and continues unceasingly to send heralds of the Gospel until such time as the infant churches are fully established and can themselves continue the work of evangelizing. For the Church is compelled by the Holy Spirit to do her part that God’s plan may be fully realized, whereby He has constituted Christ as the source of salvation for the whole world. By the proclamation of the Gospel she prepares her hearers to receive and profess the faith. She gives them the dispositions necessary for baptism, snatches them from the slavery of error and of idols and incorporates them in Christ so that through charity they may grow up into full maturity in Christ. Through her work, whatever good is in the minds and hearts of men, whatever good lies latent in the religious practices and cultures of diverse peoples, is not only saved from destruction but is also cleansed, raised up and perfected unto the glory of God, the confusion of the devil and the happiness of man. The obligation of spreading the faith is imposed on every disciple of Christ, according to his state.(21*) Although, however, all the faithful can baptize, the priest alone can complete the building up of the Body in the eucharistic sacrifice. Thus are fulfilled the words of God, spoken through His prophet: “From the rising of the sun until the going down thereof my name is great among the gentiles, and in every place a clean oblation is sacrificed and offered up in my name”.(135)(22*) In this way the Church both prays and labors in order that the entire world may become the People of God, the Body of the Lord and the Temple of the Holy Spirit, and that in Christ, the Head of all, all honor and glory may be rendered to the Creator and Father of the Universe.
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