Unforgiveable: Charley Reese

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This points to how mistaken are those who think they “know” that Saddam had WMD and the “evidence” they present

Excerpt…

*They are telling still another whopper when they claim that “everyone agreed there were weapons.” No, the French, Russians, Chinese and Germans didn’t agree. That’s why they refused to give Bush the war resolution he and his British lap dog lobbied so hard to get. *

*When German intelligence told the Bush administration they thought one of the so-called defectors was a loony, the administration ignored German intelligence and passed the defector’s information on as fact. The administration set up a special organization in the Defense Department to short-circuit both the CIA and the Defense Intelligence Agency. An Air Force colonel who worked in that office has blown the whistle on the operation. *It’s a bad thing to lie about anything. It’s bad to lie under oath. It’s bad to have sex in the Oval Office. But, in a rational society, it ought to be considered unforgivable to mislead the American people into a war. More than 2,000 young Americans have died in the springtime of their lives, and another 13,000 will carry wounds and scars into what’s left of their futures.

The entire article…

Those who promoted and implemented a war based on lies will carry the guilt to their graves.
 
French – we know now they were in the pay of Saddam and had all kinds of contracts with Saddam

Russians – were selling arms to Saddam. They rushed out all kinds of stuff just before the liberation. Wonder what it was?

Chinese – wanted Saddam’s oil

Germans – would not vote for any war resolution and told us that. They were also Iraq’s #1 arms supplier to just up to the war.

But today is 2005, if we pull out now we have civil war in Iraq, and al-Qaeda and the fascists win, so this is all a mute point.

For an immediate military withdrawal from Iraq to make sense, it would seem to me that the following have to be true:
  • Current U.S. military operations are not achieving their objectives.
  • The ongoing effort to train the Iraqi military is futile.
  • The strategic benefits of withdrawal outweigh the costs.
    I have yet to hear an informed, convincing argument that any of the above are true.
 
Trash talk. If someone posted such allegations without any support, they would now be allowed here. Providing a link to the same garbage does not make it smell any better or make it any more credible.

At this stage of the game, it’s futile to argue about whether the US should have invaded Iraq. It’s done and we’re having to deal with the results of that action. What’s the point in rehashing two year old stuff? It’s not going to change anything or do anything to make the current situation any better. Why don’t we talk about possible solutions instead? Or, I guess that if someone doesn’t want to be part of the solution, then he will be part of the problem.
 
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gilliam:
French – we know now they were in the pay of Saddam and had all kinds of contracts with Saddam

Russians – were selling arms to Saddam. They rushed out all kinds of stuff just before the liberation. Wonder what it was?

Chinese – wanted Saddam’s oil

Germans – would not vote for any war resolution and told us that. They were also Iraq’s #1 arms supplier to just up to the war.
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This is a flawed argument. Your premise is that these countries’ leaders (and security services) collectively acted in such a fashion that they deliberately ignored, due to craven motives, dire threats to their own security (Saddam’s alleged WMD which were, according to those advocating an invasion, a worldwide threat). If Saddam were, in reality, the dire worldwide threat Bush said he was, the US would have had no trouble whatsoever getting UN Security Council authorization for the invasion.

And by the way, you conveniently ignore the US motive in securing access to Iraq’s oil supply.
 
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geezerbob:
At this stage of the game, it’s futile to argue about whether the US should have invaded Iraq. It’s done and we’re having to deal with the results of that action. What’s the point in rehashing two year old stuff? It’s not going to change anything or do anything to make the current situation any better.
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The Vice President, this past week, called those who criticized the Bush Administration’s handling of pre-war intelligence “reprehensible”. It’s perfectly legitimate to discuss this now.
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geezerbob:
Why don’t we talk about possible solutions instead? Or, I guess that if someone doesn’t want to be part of the solution, then he will be part of the problem.
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A viable solution might be to go back to the “over the horizon” strategy with regard to the Persian Gulf. Withdraw all American land military units from Iraq and the Gulf region, while retaining the ability to intervene militarily from afar, when necessary. This will virtually end Al Qaeda’s suicide terrorism campaign against America.
 
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gnjsdad:
And by the way, you conveniently ignore the US motive in securing access to Iraq’s oil supply.
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And just exactly what** was** that motive?
 
vern humphrey:
And just exactly what** was** that motive?
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Just that. The US needs access to oil to maintain its economic and military status.
 
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gnjsdad:
Just that. The US needs access to oil to maintain its economic and military status.
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And this proves the US has evil intentions?

Most of our oil comes from the Americas and Africa. We have not “seized” Iraqi oil, nor taken anything we haven’t paid full price for.
 
US oil imports from Iraq have fluctuated greatly over the past 15 years. In 1990, imports from Iraq accounted for about 6.4% of our imports. From 1991 to 1996, due to sanctions, Iraq provided NO exports to the US. In 1999 (average 6.7%), 2000 (5.4%), 2001 (6.7%), and 2002 (3.9%), amounts varied a lot from month to month. More data at Energy Info. Administration
In 2002, Canada led the world in our sources of imports, at 17%, with Saudi Arabia (13.7%), Mexico (13.5%), and Venezuela (12%) in a virtual three-way tie for second. The year before the percentages were Canada - 15.4%, Saudi Arabia - 14%, Venezuela - 13%, and Mexico - 12.1%. Canada has been the leader since at least 2001. In 2002, US imports from the Persian Gulf region amounted to 19.8 percent of our total imports. The same year, a total of 40% came from OPEC member nations – which include countries such as Venezuela and Indonesia that are outside the Persian Gulf. More Information

http://www.gravmag.com/oilimports.jpg
 
I’m not sure how much oil the US has historically got from Iraq is really the point, though it was an interesting map and facts that gilliam posted.

Surely the question is how much it is going to get in the future?

Mike
 
vern humphrey:
And this proves the US has evil intentions?
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No, it shows the US, like the countries named above, is acting from other than purely altruistic motives. We Americans like to think our motives, unlike those of other countries, are always pure.
vern humphrey:
Most of our oil comes from the Americas and Africa. We have not “seized” Iraqi oil, nor taken anything we haven’t paid full price for.
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That may be true, but we would sorely miss Persian Gulf oil if it were cut off - hence our heavy military presence in that area. The occupation of Iraq is undeniably a factor here.
 
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gnjsdad:
No, it shows the US, like the countries named above, is acting from other than purely altruistic motives. We Americans like to think our motives, unlike those of other countries, are always pure.
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I think that statement tells us more about your thinking than about that of the United States.
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gnjsdad:
That may be true, but we would sorely miss Persian Gulf oil if it were cut off - hence our heavy military presence in that area. The occupation of Iraq is undeniably a factor here.
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Do you drive a car? Use electricity? Buy food and goods that were shipped from the producer?

How is your computer powered – by pedals?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
 
I seem to remember a guy that was offering 25 Grand to any terroist that would zap Americans or Israelies. and had two rascally boys that had real fun tourture chambers,and had no problem using chemical weapons on his own people killing thousands!
Personally I give a rats sorry behind about WMD’s The fool got what he deserved when he shot at our aircraft after the last war! Oh yeah he didn’t live up to his agreement to let UN inspectors in either.
Besides I am still PO’d about the 911 deal that everyone seems to have forgotten about.
I believe some are trying to pull the same krap that they pulled on us Viet-Nam guys…Get a bunch of guys killed and then start sniveling and whining and not letting the military do what needs to be done. The end result is their lives went for nothing!!!
 
If you think that we invaded Iraq for oil, then why haven’t we invaded Venezuela?

Saddam is an evil, evil man. Just ask the Kurds. It burns me up when people imply that we invaded Iraq for oil.
 
How amusing that people continue to think that WMD was the sole justification for the war against Iraq.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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