Unhappy marriage

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St Francis

I’m pretty sure he does feel trapped too. But in a slightly different way. I have told him many times over the past 15 years that I’d rather we had less money and were a ‘proper’ family but he is reluctant to make such changes. He says that he wants me to be happy and well but he doesn’t see any alternative. He can’t face the prospect of the significant drop in income this would mean. I have told him that I would be prepared to weather hardships but that doesn’t change his mind. I can understand his reluctance to make such a change especially as the older he gets the harder such a change would be to make in an ageist economy. And there are so many other considerations.

E.g.

  1. *]1 His remuneration is, to him, a reflection of his professional success and hence his personal self-esteem and worth; a change of job would, especially in the current economic climate, most likely mean our having to relocate perhaps even internationally. That’s a big ask.

    *]2 The children are happy and settled in their parish and schools. The local catholic (state funded in the UK) schools are excellent both in the catholic ethos/catechesis they provide and in academic terms. It would, to me, be an awful gamble, verging on irresponsible parenting, to withdraw them from such a good environment to satisfy my yearnings for a different life.

    *]3 What if I’m wrong? What if I’m still miserable? I’ll have caused us all to be uprooted and my husband to have given up a successful, fulfilling career for nothing. I don’t want that responsibility on my shoulders. I’d rather try to make things work as they are.

    I’m not lonely when he’s away. I have my job, my friends, my children and my faith which keep the loneliness at bay. I’m lonely when he comes home and I realise that there is no joy or pleasure in our reunion. There is tension, exhaustion (his mostly) and an awkwardness between us. It’s sad that after nearly 17 years of marriage we have grown so far apart we are little more than occasional roommates who even less occasionally have sex. It is even sadder that he just doesn’t see what the problem is as long as he has that safe and secure ‘landing space’ to return to and recharge his batteries before flying off again. He’s always shocked when I tell him that I’m not happy. Shocked and hurt and angry, because he can’t envisage a different way of life and is always surprised to learn that I don’t like it.

    I get your point about sexual intimacy and male vs female perspectives. It makes our reliance on NFP so much more problematic. He needs that marital consummation in order to feel loved himself but it is extremely rare as his travel schedule and my “safe period” rarely coincide. My trying to find a balance puts a strain between our marriage and my faith. Many times when I have tried to explain or stop things before they become sinful he will just turn away from me entirely feeling rejected himself. We’ve argued many times over this.

    At times I have chosen his needs over being open to life and this pains me each and every time but I can’t expect him to repress his desires in respecting my beliefs when he does not share them and is sexually frustrated. Can I? He says that he respects my beliefs and knows how important they are to me but he neither shares nor understands them (nor does he want to). As far as he is concerned if we both don’t feel able to care for more children (albeit for different reasons) then the means we use to achieve that end are irrelevant. As was shown by his reaction to my 2nd and 3rd pregnancies he is less ‘open to life’ than very reluctantly prepared to accept ‘accidents’.

    I have spent almost our entire marriage suppressing negative thoughts and feelings about the path our relationship has taken and counting my blessings. Of course I realise that I am very fortunate compared to many others. Nevertheless eventually my repressed emotions spill over in some form of mental break. These ‘breaks’ are getting closer together and more extreme. That’s why I’m no longer praying them away or trying to push them aside. I’m confronting them and trying to deal with them instead.
 
Lillybut,
I am sorry, I misunderstood the source of your problem and gave you advice for a different problem altogether. I see what you are saying about learning what it is you need to accept rather than just repressing it, and I will pray that you are able to sort it all out.

Annie
 
Maine52 said:
One thing that jumped out at me that no one else has mentioned is you said he needs to reach sexual climax or else he doesn’t want to talk to you or meet your emotional needs. I really would not deem him a “loving husband,” or “wonderful man” knowing this. The way he treated you when you were pregnant the second and third time is terrible. And telling you to “act like a normal human being” or else he wouldn’t talk to you when you were obviously deeply hurting? I think you may be experiencing emotional abuse from him. It is very possible that 15 years of this sort of emotional abuse from him has led to your depression.
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I agree. I understand his sexual frustration, as abstaining is not fun. However, that is no reason to limit emotionally relating to one’s spouse. It sounds like he won’t even give you hugs or light kisses. That is never right. It also sounds like he takes out his fatigue and work stress on you. That is never okay. Also, him getting mad at you for falling pregnant is emotionally abusive. It takes two ppl to make a baby!

I too would agree with Robertanthony that your dh sounds like a workaholic.
 
I agree, he is by nature a “workaholic”. I’ve often felt that whilst he would never break a work appointment - even if he was ill, unless he was hospitalized - he would easily let me or the children down to finish an experiment, or catch up on his emails.

But recognizing that is all well and good, what do I do with this knowledge? He’s not going to change and it’s hardly grounds for annullment! He knows exactly what the problems/issues are but even when he says he’s going to tackle it, he just ends up (pretty quickly) reverting to type.

After 15+ years I’ve given up on hoping he’s actually capable of making permanent changes and I’m tired of talking about it. Tired of dragging up the same old canards and him making the same old excuses and worthless promises. Tired of feeling ungrateful, unempathetic, nagging and needy. Tired of explaining that I love him, that I’m not saying he’s a horrible person, that I believe he is a good man, that I believe he loves me but that nevertheless his total commitment to his work lies in stark contrast to his behaviour towards me so that I am left feeling abandoned, second-best. Tired of apologising for upsetting him by talking about these feelings.

I can’t shake the feeling that if I disappeared tomorrow he’d be more upset that he’d have to rearrange his work schedule and travel plans to look after the children than he would be bothered about missing me or worried about me.

Come to think of it that was born out by what happened in November. I ran away. He took the kids to school, went to work then called round to arrange childcare before calling me to leave his ‘delightful’ message. I’d complicated his work day. He’d been late into the lab. He’d had to rearrange appointments. I’d caused him grief and made him look bad at work. At no point did he appear to be concerned about my safety or well-being.

Maybe I’m too charitable, or hopeful, in believing he loves me 😦
 
Lillibut said:
I agree, he is by nature a “workaholic”. I’ve often felt that whilst he would never break a work appointment - even if he was ill, unless he was hospitalized - he would easily let me or the children down to finish an experiment, or catch up on his emails.

But recognizing that is all well and good, what do I do with this knowledge? He’s not going to change and it’s hardly grounds for annullment! He knows exactly what the problems/issues are but even when he says he’s going to tackle it, he just ends up (pretty quickly) reverting to type.
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I know very little about annulments, but I was under the impression that deception before marriage could be grounds for an annulment. After all, you made it clear you didn’t want to be with man who was hardly ever home, and that is exactly what happened.
 
It was hardly deception! He didn’t plan this career path. When we met he was a university lecturer, without tenure. His contract came to an end at a time of budget cuts so he sought a new role in industry. From there he moved to his current company. At the time he worried about the travel and relocation to another country and he emphasized at the time that he would only take the job (which at the time was a 3year contract) with my blessing. We were newlyweds, I agreed to what sounded like a great adventure. Neither of us expected him to still be doing the same kind of work 16+ years later! Neither of us can see him physically able to keep up this level of travel for another 20 years to retirement but neither do we see any other viable options on the horizon.

He used to look to return to academia but now it’s too late. He would struggle to get a position now as he does not have a strong enough body of published work most of his work is commercially sensitive and he acts more as an expert advisor or trouble shooter to researchers. Then there is the previously mentioned significant pay cut if he moved back to academia, where salaries are approximately half of his current salary which is our main income, paying mortgage, utilities, food, school uniforms, transport etc with nothing left for savings or family outings/holidays even Christmas presents. My small earnings pay for any extras like that. I save everything left after my meds and counselling to purchase gifts and treats and pay for holidays and try to build some long term savings.

We don’t live extravagantly, nor do we live in a particularly affluent area or even a sizeable house. Our two youngest share a bedroom and our home is valued below the regional average and well below the national average. Cost of basic living is high in the UK and most graduate couples need two professional incomes to afford a mortgage. We’ve taken the decision to live on a single professional income, higher than many other professional incomes but nowhere near the average for a double wage graduate couple. I’m not saying we are poor, we are better off than many in this country but we do live modestly and are far from wealthy.
 
Lilibut said:

“He would struggle to get a position now as he does not have a strong enough body of published work most of his work is commercially sensitive and he acts more as an expert advisor or trouble shooter to researchers.”

I wonder if he shouldn’t make the transition back now, if he wanted to. As I mentioned, my friend’s husband is a scientist–he’s a fairly new hire (he’s been here several years) and he’s around 40.

Long term, an academic job could offer your husband much better job security, which could easily neutralize the salary cut.

“Then there is the previously mentioned significant pay cut if he moved back to academia, where salaries are approximately half of his current salary which is our main income, paying mortgage, utilities, food, school uniforms, transport etc with nothing left for savings or family outings/holidays even Christmas presents. My small earnings pay for any extras like that. I save everything left after my meds and counselling to purchase gifts and treats and pay for holidays and try to build some long term savings.”

I am familiar with US academic salaries (although not so much in the sciences), and academic families in low-cost areas here (and there are lots of them) don’t struggle nearly as hard as you are on what must be a really good salary.

It’s ridiculous for him to work so hard, never be home, and yet have so very little to show for it.

Also, is it worthwhile for your kids to attend great schools if it means their dad is never home and their mom is on the edge of a breakdown?

Aside from marriage counseling, I think I would suggest you do some sort of financial class or financial counseling, as the financial aspect of your situation seems to be driving a lot of your problems. Your husband is in a hamster wheel, running, running, running, and getting nowhere.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamster_wheel

Here in the US, we have personal finance classes like Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University. The particular details of personal finance are different in your country, but the general principles will be the same. There is an online version of FPU (which is very handy for situations like your own where a spouse travels a lot) and I would encourage you and your husband to do it together, or do another course if you can find one. (DR is an Evangelical, but he’s not super preachy.)

“We don’t live extravagantly, nor do we live in a particularly affluent area or even a sizeable house. Our two youngest share a bedroom and our home is valued below the regional average and well below the national average. Cost of basic living is high in the UK and most graduate couples need two professional incomes to afford a mortgage. We’ve taken the decision to live on a single professional income, higher than many other professional incomes but nowhere near the average for a double wage graduate couple. I’m not saying we are poor, we are better off than many in this country but we do live modestly and are far from wealthy.”

It sounds like it’s pretty much purely a cost-of-living problem.
 
Lillibut,

I’m so sorry you are going through all this, and at the same time I thank you for telling your story here in CAF. I can relate a little to what is going on in your marriage.

My husband and I think that your story could be ours in the future and that we should learn from yours and try to avoid getting there. My husband is also a Scientist and he comes home late due to his work, he also has meetings at home at 10pm and works every weekend (but from home). And, like you, I don’t feel lonely when he is out working, but only when he is home working (close and yet so far). We are newlyweds and he is currently looking for other job opportunities that wouldn’t require over-time hours, just a normal job from 8-5 from Monday to Friday, because we want to settle down in one place and have a beautiful family. Due to the stress and frustration the boss brings him, the bad management and the unjust workload he receives, when he is trying to work from home, he escapes a few minutes to read CAF or other things, because he doesn’t feel like working any more for the day (completely understandable). But I have to sit next to him and supervise him to finish what he needs to finish, so he can then pay attention to me. It is like his work has become the first thing on the list, “later, after I finish working” has been the answer to many requests I present to him. In the midst of all this, he is still a loving and very patient man.

In regards to NFP, thanks to God’s Mercy, my husband is faithful to God and the Church above me, he is the one in charge of monitoring and charting the NFP 🙂 We use the Ladycomp (BBT method), it is very easy to use, it is a fertility computer that tells you when you are fertile or infertile. It really works. Plus, as a back-up, we do the Billings Ovulation Method where you abstain after menstruation until three days after ovulation day. (If I’m worng, I invite my husband to correct me, he knows best) We use the Ovuview android application to record our NFP. Maybe you would want to check it out?

We watched the movie Sister Faustina the other day, and we were amazed how that woman really loved to suffer for the love of God, literally. She got ill, and she was thanking God for her illness and asked for more. I encourage you to watch it, the full movie can be found at gloria.tv. Lillibut, your husband is your way to sanctification, your way to holiness. Whatever God permits to happen in the future, do not separate, don’t go out of The Way. Salvation is alone and there is no salvation outside Church. Keep trying to fix your marriage and be broken! Our parish priest always reminds us to be broken! To forgive, love and be broken. Jesus broke the bread at the last supper where he said “This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.” He BROKE the bread (his body) and He asks us to do the same. I’m not saying to just stay in that situation, but to keep trying to bring your marriage to the foot of the cross, to God’s will.

You are in my prayers,
Elizabeth
 
I think I would encourage your husband to think about the risks that he is taking with his life choices right now. Maybe marriage counseling would be a good place to talk about this stuff.

It’s quite possible that industry could put him out to pasture at any time in the next 10 years, and he’ll then be faced with transitioning into some other career in later middle age on a fraction of the income. On top of that, he’ll be faced with suddenly spending a lot of time with a wife and children that are strangers to him.

It’s a very serious risk to put all of our eggs in the “work” basket when we have no guarantee that we will be able to work long term.

I suspect that on his end, a lot of the problem is that when he’s not around you, he forgets that you exist, so that it doesn’t even register on him that while he’s been gone, you’ve been home alone without him for long, long periods of time. Hence, your feelings about his absences don’t make any sense to him, because from his point of view, you only exist when he’s there. He doesn’t notice you not being there when he’s focusing on work.

That may or may not be unfair, but if it is fair, you may find it helpful.
 
E-7
I knew there was a reason that He guided me to tell my story here despite my fears about divulging too much personal information. YOU are that reason.

I thought my circumstances were pretty much unique. The chance that anyone else was in this position were almost zero. But here you are!

Your story has given me hope. Something I haven’t felt for a long time. Not entirely for myself although I have received great comfort from realising I am not alone, someone else is actually living under similar circumstances, someone really does understand. But also for you, please heed the lessons of my experience, you are still in that early phase. Let him read my story and realise how easily a couple can get trapped on that hamster wheel.

The worst part for me is that no matter how accurate my charts are if he isn’t here during the safe period then we can go for months without making love. That would be hard in a normal relationship when there are plenty of opportunities to express love and intimacy in other ways but when you don’t spend very much time together anyway it is deathly.

When I read how NFP has brought couples so much closer it makes me so sad because that isn’t how it works in my relationship, the opportunities to give regular small expressions of love and intimacy are so few. For example, this last week my husband left last Monday morning returning late Friday, exhausted as usual only to fly out again on Sunday morning, he barely had time to recharge his batteries and repack his suitcase. We had no alone time at all he was too tired. He wont be back until late Saturday evening by which time I will be fertile again. Our third month in a row where we’ve not been able to make love. It is incredibly frustrating for him and not great for me either.

It is exhausting and terribly lonely to share a bed (occasionally) but not my life or love with my husband. He’s there in body but I may as well be invisible. It is actually easier when he isn’t home. 😦

I particularly identify with you about working at home. That’s the worst of both worlds. I always feel like a nuisance and interruption. The children have to be quiet when he’s talking to customers on the phone - difficult for a 3 year old who’s just hurt himself or having a normal ‘tantrum’. I’ve lost count of the times I have been trying to be firm in the face of a tantrum only for my husband to explode out of his office to glare at us both for making too much noise because he’s in the middle of a conference call. It isn’t nice. It isn’t nice or comfortable for him either but I’d still rather he worked at home than travel. It just takes very careful management of activities with the children, out of the house for office hours, after that my husband has to manage his expectations, it is our home first and his workspace second. It has taken 13 years to establish this understanding but still the children can’t be boisterous or make a lot of noise whilst he is working, whether that’s 10am or 8pm.

Anyway thank you so much for posting. God speaks to us in unexpected ways. X
 
Xantippe

Thanks for responding. I do appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut and observations. Mostly accurate although small comfort I’m afraid 🤷

My husband is who he is. We’ve had so many times where I explain my feelings only to end up apologising for making him feel bad. I don’t see the point in talking to him about my feelings anymore. Of course that isn’t exactly conducive to real intimacy either :o

You’re right. I dont exist, or at least don’t configure in his thoughts when he is working - at home or when travelling. It is a classic case of the single track male mind vs female multi-tasking mindset. He is very focused when he is working and finds it hard to switch off.

In a light-hearted sense, the following ad recently screened in the UK spoke to us both as familiar that’s our family holiday experience (but much less luxurious) :rolleyes:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXNJA1yGn-8

It is also why vacations are sooo important to us. They’re not a nice extra or luxury. If we didn’t get a holiday together at least once every 2 years the children and I would only ever see the old “Simon”.

The only thing the ad doesn’t show how the transformation back starts in the 2-3 days before we come home again 😦
 
And on that lighter note I will sign off for now. It is 3am here and I’ve got to get up in 4 hours! 🙂
Thank you all for your prayers.
God is great, God is good, God is beauty, Praise Him.

Xx
 
Lillibut,

I suspect my friend’s scientist husband is very like yours, but 1) he’s an academic and 2) his office is a five-minute walk from their house and 3) he travels, but not a lot. I think all that makes a considerable difference. My friend still goes a little nuts and her husband can be extraordinarily obtuse, but their financial situation is definitely better than yours (despite substantial health expenses) and they go out regularly together and have a fairly active social life with other parents of young families.

I think it’s worthwhile talking to him about your sex problems. Point out to him that if he’s home more, you can have sex more, and that it’s his travel schedule that’s largely responsible for introducing so much abstinence into your lives. (He’ll mention NFP, but that’s obviously not the whole explanation–if he’s not home, you can’t be having sex.)

Maybe even turn it over to him as a logistical/math problem? Maybe show him the last three months, which days he was home, which days you were infertile, which days you had sex, and ask him what his plan is for improving your situation?

I would definitely get back to marriage counseling. I expect he’s used to thinking of you as “the crazy one” and it would help a lot for a third party to be pointing out that your expectations are not unreasonable.

I suspect your problems are more the rule than the exception in scientist/non-scientist marriages.
 
**Lillybut **
For example, this last week my husband left last Monday morning returning late Friday, exhausted as usual only to fly out again on Sunday morning, he barely had time to recharge his batteries and repack his suitcase. We had no alone time at all he was too tired. He wont be back until late Saturday evening by which time I will be fertile again.
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I notice that here, out of two weeks with no intimacy, only one week is caused by NFP. The other is caused by his fatigue. I’d start keeping a record on a calendar and do something like * for intimacy, T for lack thereof due to his fatigue, T/F for those times when he is too tired and it’s a bad time, and F for the times when fertility alone keeps intimacy from happening.
 
St. Francis said:

“I notice that here, out of two weeks with no intimacy, only one week is caused by NFP. The other is caused by his fatigue. I’d start keeping a record on a calendar and do something like * for intimacy, T for lack thereof due to his fatigue, T/F for those times when he is too tired and it’s a bad time, and F for the times when fertility alone keeps intimacy from happening.”

Yes! I think the OP should present him with some data.
 
A slight misunderstanding here. My conservative phase 3 window is pretty short at 6-8 days depending on cycle length which since my third pregnancy is variable at 23-26 days. Hence last week I was still fertile. My third high temp was on Sunday morning. By the time he comes back (unless I’m a day or two late this month) I’ll be considered fertile again.

It is a long time since we attended NFP classes and I assumed this change in my cycle was normal just part of perimenopause. However I’ve just done some searching and learned about LPD. I’d never heard of this before. This makes things more complicated for me though. It would be good to have a longer phase 3 but I don’t want to increase my fertility. :confused:

I guess I need to go back to class.
 
I was driving home one day while listening to Catholic Radio. A very wise priest was answering a variety of caller’s Catholic questions. One caller was explaining that they had been married about a year and didn’t want to have children until she finished her education and they had saved money, and so they were practicing NFP. Sounds logical enough, right? I forget what the rest of her question was about, but the priest gave her some very hard news. He told her that she shouldn’t have gotten married if they were not immediately ready to have children. NFP is to be used for very grave purposes, which is stated in Catholic teaching. What you are explaining here in your NFP methods seems to be a very warped concept of that–very far from the idea of love-making and self-sacrifice. It doesn’t seem to me that your husband has ever engaged in an actual Catholic marriage. I know this is hard news, but if I were you, I would not engage in intercourse with this man until he can begin to understand where you are. It is abusive–he seems to have treated you like you are a toy to be placed on the shelf from the very beginning. You, acting like the stuffed animal, are doing nothing to help the situation. You were not made to be used in this way. Perhaps this may get his attention, may get him to start realizing that he is acting like a lab rat.
 
faithsmind said:

“One caller was explaining that they had been married about a year and didn’t want to have children until she finished her education and they had saved money, and so they were practicing NFP. Sounds logical enough, right? I forget what the rest of her question was about, but the priest gave her some very hard news. He told her that she shouldn’t have gotten married if they were not immediately ready to have children. NFP is to be used for very grave purposes, which is stated in Catholic teaching. What you are explaining here in your NFP methods seems to be a very warped concept of that–very far from the idea of love-making and self-sacrifice. It doesn’t seem to me that your husband has ever engaged in an actual Catholic marriage.”

It doesn’t sound like he is Catholic, so that’s probably not a huge surprise to the OP.

Also, given that her getting pregnant makes her husband angry, she definitely has serious reasons to avoid at this point.

“I know this is hard news, but if I were you, I would not engage in intercourse with this man until he can begin to understand where you are. It is abusive–he seems to have treated you like you are a toy to be placed on the shelf from the very beginning. You, acting like the stuffed animal, are doing nothing to help the situation. You were not made to be used in this way. Perhaps this may get his attention, may get him to start realizing that he is acting like a lab rat.”

I suspect that following that advice without working closely with a marriage counselor would only result in their marriage getting chillier and chillier.

This is a couple that needs help in getting closer together, not farther apart.

As the OP as described her husband, he is a good man and a conscientious father (when he’s around), but not a good husband.
 
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