Unification of Churches

[Prodigal_Son1]

I wanted to see evidence of Churches seeking a unification of the Churches into one Church. I know the East and West Churches have been in a dialogue and I believe the Catholic Church has been in dialogues with other Churches, in hopes of unifying the Church.

All are invited to participate and share.

 

[TriuneUnity]

I wanted to see evidence of Churches seeking a unification of the Churches into one Church. I know the East and West Churches have been in a dialogue and I believe the Catholic Church has been in dialogues with other Churches, in hopes of unifying the Church.

All are invited to participate and share.

It would have to initially be with those churches that we share more in common with than the basics of the faith. It is much easier for Lutheran churches to pursue unity with the Roman and Orthodox communions because we share a sacramental faith, the real presence in the eucharist, and the historic liturgy. With Baptists, hrm, not so much.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

It would have to initially be with those churches that we share more in common with than the basics of the faith. It is much easier for Lutheran churches to pursue unity with the Roman and Orthodox communions because we share a sacramental faith, the real presence in the eucharist, and the historic liturgy. With Baptists, hrm, not so much.

Hello TriuneUnity,

The Lutheran Church was one of the Churches that came to mind, in reference to Churches in communications, in hopes of a unification.

What come to my mind earlier, on another thread is the multitude of Churches that don’t seek unity with others, or at least I haven’t heard too much about a lot of them seeking unity. That seems to be at odds with the teachings of Christ, and scriptures.

 

[TriuneUnity]

Hello TriuneUnity,

The Lutheran Church was one of the Churches that came to mind, in reference to Churches in communications, in hopes of a unification.

What come to my mind earlier, on another thread is the multitude of Churches that don’t seek unity with others, or at least I haven’t heard too much about a lot of them seeking unity. That seems to be at odds with the teachings of Christ, and scriptures.

That may be true… The problem, of course, is that there cannot be any unity without an agreement on doctrine. The result of unity with a compromise on the teachings of the faith are the old union churches which formed in Europe during and after the Enlightenment era, where you have beliefs that just don’t jive mixed together.

As I see it, my critique of the current Lutheran-Catholic dialogue is between liberal Lutheran bodies, unfortunately.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

That may be true… The problem, of course, is that there cannot be any unity without an agreement on doctrine. The result of unity with a compromise on the teachings of the faith are the old union churches which formed in Europe during and after the Enlightenment era, where you have beliefs that just don’t jive mixed together.

As I see it, my critique of the current Lutheran-Catholic dialogue is between liberal Lutheran bodies, unfortunately.

There cannot be any agreement on doctrine, if those Churches are not seeking a unity to begin with. It starts with a dialogue. Do you know of other Churches that are even open to a dialogue for a unification, out of all the denominations?

I’m sincerely not trying to generalize ‘Protestants’ to include all not in the Catholic Church. As I said, the Lutheran Church immediately came to mind as one that has been in communications, which is the first step, or at least acknowledges the fact that we need to find a way to unify Christianity as a whole.

 

[BrianH]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churches_Uniting_in_Christ
A start at least…

 

[KathleenGee]

A bishop taught us aspects of ecumenism, who had attended Vatican II.

He was saying that there is great work coming about with the Anglican Church as well as the Lutheran Churches. He said that the Presbyterian Church is considered as a ‘church’ because it recognized the need and role for bishop. But he also stated that the more congregations break off the 7 sacraments, they loose alot in unity, and are not considered churches as such without bishops, but ecclesial communities.

Ecclesial communities do not have most of the 7 sacraments, and break as well from the great inheritance of Christian history and its development, focusing primarily on the Bible on its own.

I pray very much for the unity of all Christians and their return to the sacraments. I believe the Christian voice would be much more power against the secular forces if we were one. I think Christian unity would also lead to greater family unity and its restoration as the foundation of society.

 

[blazerdave]

There cannot be any agreement on doctrine, if those Churches are not seeking a unity to begin with. It starts with a dialogue. Do you know of other Churches that are even open to a dialogue for a unification, out of all the denominations?

I’m sincerely not trying to generalize ‘Protestants’ to include all not in the Catholic Church. As I said, the Lutheran Church immediately came to mind as one that has been in communications, which is the first step, or at least acknowledges the fact that we need to find a way to unify Christianity as a whole.

Same here. I’d sincerely love a real unity to come about between my Church and yours. I pray for this every day. That prayer assumes that our Lord must work a miracle, for sadly there seems to be no human way to do this. So much good has happened over the past 100 years between Canterbury and Rome, but the ever-shrinking distance is still very great (and grows every time we make boneheaded decisions).

And the hardest thing - the one that people don’t like to bring up - is that there are ultimately very painful and emotional issues where both sides absolutely cannot accept the idea that they could be wrong. I won’t bring up examples for fear of derailing the thread, but we, much like our Lutheran friends, don’t think we are mistaken about the areas of disagreement. And yet I certainly want to respect Rome and Constantinople too. I don’t deny their heritage, their roles as lights in the darkness, and all that is great about both.

I hope that someday unity without wimpy liberal compromise can be achieved. I don’t see how, but I really wish for it.

 

[CMatt25]

Here’s another.

The Christian Church, Disciples of Christ statement of identity:

We are Disciples of Christ,
a movement for wholeness
in a fragmented world.
As part of the one body of Christ,
we welcome all to the Lord’s Table
as God has welcomed us.

disciples.org/AboutTheDisciples/tabid/67/Default.aspx

The Disciples of Christ maintains ecumenical relations with the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Church_(Disciples_of_Christ)#Ecumenical_relations

But of course it will take two to tango. One simply can not stand firm and not move.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I wanted to see evidence of Churches seeking a unification of the Churches into one Church. I know the East and West Churches have been in a dialogue and I believe the Catholic Church has been in dialogues with other Churches, in hopes of unifying the Church.

All are invited to participate and share.

For the record the Eastern Catholic church and the Western Catholic church share the same communion and remain as one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church in one faith, in one baptism, in one Lord Jesus Christ. These two are the two lungs of the body of Christ on earth as it is in heaven.

What you might be referencing is the minority of those Orthodox that are not in communion with the Pope, these are considered in schism which is a “tear” in unity with the authority of the Pope. These Orthodox in schism with the Pope still maintain their Catholic belief’s as one body, for the exception of authority which is a tear among believers not necessarily the Body of Jesus Christ in his Church which he built upon Peter.

The Western Protestants is another story, these broke off from the Apostolic faith in succession to the apostles, sacred Tradition, canon of scripture and removed themselves from communion with the body of Jesus Christ.

Unity is not the speech being spoken at this time and age, it is the word “Ecumenism”. Once we get passed this Ecumenism when every one comes to the full understanding of what the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic church truly teaches. Then at this later time, we can discuss unity which will begin to seperate the sheep from the goats.

We have to come to the true knowledge of the Apostolic faith before we can begin to seperate the sheep from the goats. This forum is one medium that strives to work at ecumenism by sharing what each other believes, when one comes to his understanding then at this time one decides to choose life or death.

Their cannot be a unification of Church’s because the bible only speaks of one Church, One faith, in one body in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[TriuneUnity]

There cannot be any agreement on doctrine, if those Churches are not seeking a unity to begin with. It starts with a dialogue. Do you know of other Churches that are even open to a dialogue for a unification, out of all the denominations?

Not that I can think of. Here in North America, the Episcopal Church, the United Methodist Church, the ELCA and the UCC are all pretty much in ecumenical fellowship (not along the lines of the gospel, but along the lines of liberal social experiments).

I’m sincerely not trying to generalize ‘Protestants’ to include all not in the Catholic Church. As I said, the Lutheran Church immediately came to mind as one that has been in communications, which is the first step, or at least acknowledges the fact that we need to find a way to unify Christianity as a whole.

From a confessional Lutheran perspective, the only other churches we are to work to unify with is Rome and Orthodoxy.

 

[lutherlic]

It would have to initially be with those churches that we share more in common with than the basics of the faith. It is much easier for Lutheran churches to pursue unity with the Roman and Orthodox communions because we share a sacramental faith, the real presence in the eucharist, and the historic liturgy. With Baptists, hrm, not so much.

Theoretically speaking, at least theologically. Lutherans are like most Protestants these days being split between conservative and liberal factions. The major conservative side is LCMS and they are not too far from us. The liberal side is ELCA which unlike LCMS, has women pastors and embraces homosexual “rights”. As of last summer - congregations may have, for example, a lesbian pastor in an open / blessed homosexual relationship (I am not sure if they call it marriage yet).

I could easily see unity with LCMS Lutherans. My frame of reference is the US, ELCA and LCMS are US synods.

(I was a life long Lutheran in an ELCA area. For me it was a wakeup call.)

 

[maximus]

Maybe in 20 or 30 years we may have to find a way to unify just to survive in the future if all threats to Christianity continue to grow at present rate.

God Bless

 

[KathleenGee]

That is my concern as well…not only are we graced in being one with Christ, it is also a matter of survival.

I wonder…if we can’t agree on certain things, we can relate to each other as .
one in Christ, Christian brethren to each other. Irregardless.

Be one in Christ.

 

[blazerdave]

Maybe in 20 or 30 years we may have to find a way to unify just to survive in the future if all threats to Christianity continue to grow at present rate.

God Bless

That is my concern as well…not only are we graced in being one with Christ, it is also a matter of survival.

I wonder…if we can’t agree on certain things, we can relate to each other as .
one in Christ, Christian brethren to each other. Irregardless.

Be one in Christ.

I completely agree with you both. Here’s a thought that just came to me: perhaps a great starting point is to admit that we need each other. I don’t mean that to sound like a loaded term, either. If the Catholic Church doesn’t want to say that it “needs” another’s doctrine, for example, that’s fine. But perhaps some of us could enrich its liturgy or music. If the East doesn’t need our music, perhaps we can strengthen, say, its missions work. These are just thoughts; by no means am I calling another Church incomplete! But unless we can all wake up and see just how anti-Christian this world truly is, and unless we can overcome pride in our own Churches (speaking to myself here) and be willing to share our gifts, we are in deep, deep trouble in the coming years.

 

[Hesychios]

I just wanted to interject here …

A bishop taught us aspects of ecumenism …

He said that the Presbyterian Church is considered as a ‘church’ because it recognized the need and role for bishop.

I believe he got that wrong, or perhaps you didn’t relate everythig he had to state on this subject, because the Presbyterians (originating as the Calvinists of Scotland, following Knox) specifically rejected the episcopate.

BTW, it is the conflict in Scotland which gave us the names for the two mainline Protestant denominations we find so prominent in the USA today: Presbyterian and Episcopalian.

The Episcopalians in the USA received their first bishop from the hand of bishops in Scotland (I believe they were non-jurors). The Scots were divided between the majority Church of Scotland - Presbyterian (whose congregations had “presbyters” but no bishops) and the Church of Scotland - Episcopalian (whose congregations continued under bishops and were still grouped into dioceses). Of course there were also some Papal Catholics in the hills as well .

 

[maximus]

I completely agree with you both. Here’s a thought that just came to me: perhaps a great starting point is to admit that we need each other. I don’t mean that to sound like a loaded term, either. If the Catholic Church doesn’t want to say that it “needs” another’s doctrine, for example, that’s fine. But perhaps some of us could enrich its liturgy or music. If the East doesn’t need our music, perhaps we can strengthen, say, its missions work. These are just thoughts; by no means am I calling another Church incomplete! But unless we can all wake up and see just how anti-Christian this world truly is, and unless we can overcome pride in our own Churches (speaking to myself here) and be willing to share our gifts, we are in deep, deep trouble in the coming years.

Pride, that’s a thought one. It maybe that in the future a lot of us will have to swallow our pride and set aside prejudices for the good of the Gospel and God’s people on earth. Hopefully, we can accomplish this before the second coming of Christ.

I don’t believe we can continue standing individually particularly in the future since the prejudices and hate growing against us is becoming so strong. I agree with you we are in deep trouble.

God Bless,

 

[KathleenGee]

Hesychios,

You are probably right about the Presbyterians…attended a wedding last summer…may be if not the episcopacy, but keep more of the sacraments.

People who are not part of sacramental churches do not know this definition of 'churches, and are offended as such when they are defined as ecclesial communities.

I remember meeting an elderly woman recuperating from surgery who had cancer…very lively. She went to the Bible church down the road. She lived out in the country. She was so sweet and Christian. There must have been 20 to 30 houses around the Bible Church. But I felt such a strong spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit in her, so simple, that I would see her gathering as definitely one fitting an ecclesial community…ecclesial does mean of church…and so Christian in her body, soul, and mind.

 

[KathleenGee]

Yes, Blazerdave, we need to start NOW to just relate to all as Christians in Christ and be brothers and sisters, even if we worship at separate places…

The bishop was suggesting we come together in the Our Father and ecumenical Bible study.

But we Catholics do tend to relate to Scripture with the Eucharist…

 

[blazerdave]

maximus and Kathleen, those are great words to live by. Sounds like we’re on the same page. I try to pray for unity every day, but now I know to pray for brothers and sisters at a place like this forum who also desire for Christians to grow in unity

May our Lord guide us through difficult times ahead