Uniformity of Mormon Sacred Architecture

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I don’t know of any cathedrals in the US that were buily with public funds. Most, like St. Patrick’s in NYC, were built by the sheer will to make it happen, and the funding came from private donors, mainly, the Catholics of the diocese.

http://www.trekexchange.com/images/St_Patricks_Cathedral.jpg

Most envision gothic architecture as the grandest statement of worship, but there are modern cathedrals such as the Co-Cthedral of the Sacred Heart in Houston (dedicated 2008), that are incredibly beautiful.

 
stormy99 said:
Why would the Holy Spirit be more easily felt in such a place? Think about it…there is no communion services in the temples…Moroni might speak but in a temple the Holy Spirit will be silent…and what has been spoken by the prophets has been revealed already…done…The Holy Spirt is part of the Trinity…one in the same…our Lord and God speaks through the Holy Spirit…LDS don’t believe in the Trinity in the same way a Catholic does…so you can forget hearing the Holy Spirit in their Temples…

Do a little research on what Mormons believe…you will be totally shocked and surprised…from the handshakes to the sacred underwear…it will blow you away…

stormy.
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Stormy,
Please be respectful about the beliefs and Sacraments of other churches. There is no need to denigrate them. It demeans the rest of us and it demeans the One, Holy, Apostolic Catholic Church. If it was an attempt at humor, please leave that off of this site where the Catholic Church is able to shine and demonstrate its best qualities.

Thank you for your encouragement to study the religion of others. I am still studying, but sadly I tell you that I have forgotten far more than I once knew. Today, I confuse the rest of what I know.

A few things that were incorrect in your comments: 1) there is not a 3 hour Sacrament meeting. Mormons meet for three hours and the time is equally divided into three meetings: Sacrament, Sunday School, and Prieshood (male study classes), Relief Society (female study classes). The children and young adults have similar meetings except for Sacrament where everyone is together.
  1. The Holy Spirit’s presence is not limited only to times of communion. He is much greater than that and he is everywhere. He touches the lives of all people Catholics and non-Catholics alike.
  2. You might want to read some of their Ante Nicene Fathers. Justin is very clear that prophets still existed after the time of Christ. If there was no need for prophets, why would they be present then? You might want to reread 1 Cor 18: 22, 24, 31, 39; 1 Thes 5:20, Rev 10:11 and 11:3. These verses all support the value and importance of prophesying. There are many others I did not mention and the only reason I have cited this postion is the mother Church has a long history of prophesying. I have never heard a Mormon say that Moroni speaks to them. What I hear from them is that they believe in the Holy Spirit, God the Father, and Jesus Christ. Inidviduals may have different ideas, but it does not lessen their faith is in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. There may be a need to correct poor understandings, but we who live in glass houses best not throw stones. The truth will conquer all things and all will bow to the Savior when he returns. Let each of us be a guide to those who do not know that Christ lives, will return, and has unending love for each of his children.
  3. I reject totally that the Holy Spirit is limited in any way. He does not just attend Catholic Churches. I have felt his presence in Anglican churches, Protestant churches, I have felt him when a mother’s arms are bereft of a passing child, I have felt him on early mornings where rays of light begin to be seen through the leaves, he is there when I have cried over my sins innumerable, he is there when I feel the grace of forgiveness and my soul is cleansed from terrible wrongs I have committed. I have felt him among every nationality I have met whether Christian or not. I have felt them when talking to a Jewish holocaust survivors (a couple) and sharing my belief that Jesus will take away the pain and agony. As tears came down their faces I know the Holy Spirit was present in their life at that moment. They felt the presence of God Almighty. There is no doubt that the Holy Spirit will come to all those who seek him, who prepare to sense him. Without doubt he is present in Mormon temples and it is folly to think otherwise.
  4. Sacred underwear is a denigration that is not necessary. Talk to a Mormon about what they represent to them. They tell me that they represent covenants they have made with God to be chaste, honest, charitable, to seek holiness in all they do, to devote all they have to glorify God and to build up the Kingdom of God. These are the type of covenants we all think about and contemplate. Mormons have temples for making them; those who serve Christ make them in our personal lives. Put that rock down before you shatter all that is left of your glass house.
The path to truth is not one that should be fought over. Truth is found easiest in a safe environment where ideas, thoughts, and concepts are freely discussed and contemplated. Where others may return to pose additional questions and share further the thoughts of their heart. We can learn from each other, but the moment this forum becomes unsafe; a place of ridicule and derision, then you have lost an opportunity to share what is great about the Catholic Church.
 
PeanutBono said:
If the cross makes you remember Jesus then great, we just use other symbols to remind us.
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It reminds us of His resurrection and triumph over death. A symbol of death and execution overthrown. If Jesus was just another murder victim, your analogy would be appropriate.
 
JHow said:
It reminds us of His resurrection and triumph over death. A symbol of death and execution overthrown. If Jesus was just another murder victim, your analogy would be appropriate.
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He was not ‘just another murder victim.’ and the analogy is still appropriate. For us. It’s not for you, and that’s fine.

The fact that we do not use the cross does not mean that we reject Christ, His Atonement or the Resurrection. The fact that you use it does not mean that you reverence the method of His execution over His sacrifice.

Symbols mean what the people who use them think they mean. They are artificial constructs that evoke meaning…and it is the meaning that counts. The problem comes when you confuse the symbol with its meaning, because that way lies idol worship.

Let’s use the US flag here: it’s just some artfully arranged bits of fabric stitched together in a pattern, right? It’s actually rather complicated, and not all THAT glorious–except in what it symbolizes. So we take care of it. We fly it properly. We salute it. We fold it and don’t let it touch the ground, and we dispose of it respectfully. Why? Because of what it symbolizes. If some poor boob who has never seen one or has no clue what it symbolizes uses it for a bath towel, does that mean anything?

Nope…because a symbol can only evoke meaning in those who understand and agree with what the symbol means.

What about someone from outer space who hasn’t got a clue that a cross is a symbol of anything? He sees this thing, and voilà–it makes a GREAT screwdriver. Is he desecrating it? Nope…because in order to desecrate a symbol, one has to understand and agree with what that symbol represents. It is THAT which is really being desecrated.

OK, finally…what of those who hate Christianity and misuse the cross in expressing that hatred? Are they desecrating it? yep…because they understand the symbology, and are attacking the reality through the symbol.

Mormons understand what the cross means–perhaps even more than Christians do who, without thought, choose one to wear because it ‘goes’ with the dress, or who use it to express rebellion by sticking representations of it all over themselves in various body piercings. We may not display it, but we would never, ever, misuse it.
 
dianaiad said:
He was not ‘just another murder victim.’ and the analogy is still appropriate. For us. It’s not for you, and that’s fine.

The fact that we do not use the cross does not mean that we reject Christ, His Atonement or the Resurrection. The fact that you use it does not mean that you reverence the method of His execution over His sacrifice…(Clipped rest of non-sequitar for space)
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Diana: Let me refer to you to my buddy PeanutBono, who gave the following explanation for why Mormons do not display the cross in church:

“We do not display crosses in our church because we view it the same as a person who was murdered by a gun. Would we put a symbol of a gun next to everything of a family member who was murdered as a way of remembering that person? If the cross makes you remember Jesus then great, we just use other symbols to remind us.”

And all I’m saying is, when your murdered family member raises himself on the third day and comes back to visit you before ascending into heaven, maybe you’re not so upset by firearms?
 
I was amazed when I visited the Cologne Cathedral, and how it was extensively rebuilt after WW2 bombing.

 
JHow said:
Diana: Let me refer to you to my buddy PeanutBono, who gave the following explanation for why Mormons do not display the cross in church:

“We do not display crosses in our church because we view it the same as a person who was murdered by a gun. Would we put a symbol of a gun next to everything of a family member who was murdered as a way of remembering that person? If the cross makes you remember Jesus then great, we just use other symbols to remind us.”

And all I’m saying is, when your murdered family member raises himself on the third day and comes back to visit you before ascending into heaven, maybe you’re not so upset by firearms?
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…and I should respond to your characterization of my well thought out and erudite post as a ‘non-sequitur’ with civility, why, exactly?

(snort)

…and yes, I would still be upset by firearms. More to the point, how do you think my murdered family member would feel when, upon returning to us three days after having been shot to death, by having hundreds of thousands of guns waving at him?
 
dianaiad said:
Y’know, it’s difficult…rather like comparing apples to oranges in a way.
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Er…

Y’know I didn’t say anything about comparing just a suggestion to get back to architecture, LDS/Catholic, ugly/beautiful, uniform/unique, love it/hate it, what ever, …and pictures I like pictures.

Thanks to Todd for the pictures.
 
zaffiroborant said:
Er…

Y’know I didn’t say anything about comparing just a suggestion to get back to architecture, LDS/Catholic, ugly/beautiful, uniform/unique, love it/hate it, what ever, …and pictures I like pictures.

Thanks to Todd for the pictures.
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er…OK…sorry about getting all historically academic on you.

You know which Catholic (modern…the ancient Catholic cathedrals are in classes by themselves and have no peers) cathedral I like? Mostly because it, well, has to grow on you, and the interior is so gloriously unexpected given what the outside looks like?

Liverpool.
 
dianaiad said:
You know which Catholic (modern…the ancient Catholic cathedrals are in classes by themselves and have no peers) cathedral I like? Mostly because it, well, has to grow on you, and the interior is so gloriously unexpected given what the outside looks like?

Liverpool.
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Now that church is pretty funky, I like it 😃
It belongs in the set of some future sci-fi movie
 
dianaiad said:
…and I should respond to your characterization of my well thought out and erudite post as a ‘non-sequitur’ with civility, why, exactly?
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But respond civilly you did! Thank you. Sorry for the “non-sequitur” but it was bit long-winded and I didn’t want to respond to flag burning, etc.
dianaiad said:
…and yes, I would still be upset by firearms. More to the point, how do you think my murdered family member would feel when, upon returning to us three days after having been shot to death, by having hundreds of thousands of guns waving at him?
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I expect it took some time for the cross to be adopted as a symbol of Christianity (greater than three days), but to answer your question: No, I don’t think Christ is upset by representations of the cross. He triumphed over it. If your grandfather fought in the war and brought back a mauser rifle or nazi flag I don’t think he would look at those items in fear.

I also find it odd that you reject this common Christian symbol in your architecture, and it sounds like you also don’t display, except maybe as a private devotion (?), yet you insist on being recognized as Christian. Why call a Christian symbol a “murder weapon” (okay for you - not for me) and then turn around and insist we are all part of the same family?
 
JHow said:
But respond civilly you did! Thank you. Sorry for the “non-sequitur” but it was bit long-winded and I didn’t want to respond to flag burning, etc.

I expect it took some time for the cross to be adopted as a symbol of Christianity (greater than three days), but to answer your question: No, I don’t think Christ is upset by representations of the cross. He triumphed over it. If your grandfather fought in the war and brought back a mauser rifle or nazi flag I don’t think he would look at those items in fear.

I also find it odd that you reject this common Christian symbol in your architecture, and it sounds like you also don’t display, except maybe as a private devotion (?), yet you insist on being recognized as Christian. Why call a Christian symbol a “murder weapon” (okay for you - not for me) and then turn around and insist we are all part of the same family?
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Hmmn…

That’s a new requirement for being a Christian, m’friend…one that even I’ve never heard before (and I’ve heard a BUNCH of 'em.) …that a Christian MUST put the cross up everywhere?

I have heard more than one Christian decide that people who use crucifixes cannot be real Christians, though. (don’t worry, I’m not one of those people.)

The definition of “Christian” is…(from the OED) …of persons and communities: Beleiving, professing, or belonging to the religion of Christ. .

Ok, breaking that down, we have 'believing" (from the same source) To have confidence or faith in (a person), and consequently to rely upon, trust to

“professing”=(again, from the same source) To declare, affirm, acknowledge, or confess oneself to be something.

“belonging” (ibid) To be connected with in various relations; to form a part or appendage of; e.g. to be a member of a family, society, or nation, to be an adherent or dependent of, to be a native or inhabitant of a place; to be a dependency, adjunct, or appendage of something; to be one of a generation or time.

In other words, anyone who believes in Jesus Christ, declares that he is a Christian, or belongs to a group that believes in Christ or declares itself to be Christian, is a Christian.

By definition.

Doesn’t make him right.
Doesn’t make him saved.
Doesn’t make him good.
Doesn’t make him Christ’s…

But it does make him a Christian. The word is a classification of belief, not an imprimatur of righteousness or of salvation.
 
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